Mutator Discussions

[MasterShakeEZ]

One thing I've picked up and a few others have as well, is that boiler keystone mutator is cancer. Every boiler takes it and most people caught in its gas is murdered by it. It's worse when the gas creeps over most of an FOB and floods tight corridors that most maps have and the almayer. It makes any emplacement almost undefendable right from the get go and often requires an insane amount of space (Big red LZ1 bases, LV Hydro / river crossing) to make defence something that doesn't devolve into getting gassed for defending or having breaches every time you get gassed because a xeno runs up and slashes the cade while the horde of marines run away then can't shoot over the cades to hit the xenos because most shots are hitting the cades. It also makes attacks insanely painful now because a boiler can keep most of the marine force occupied with their smokescreen while xenos can conduct constant hit and run attacks getting away unpunished because marines can't actually advance and deliver the killing blow some xenos need for extending like they do.
I honestly don't think that boilers actually needed the extra gas range when the gas freely creeps over barricades and kills most marines in two seconds once the boiler is mature. Also gas masks don't really serve as much of a counter to this as the gas still outright kills you in the space of 2-3 seconds. If there was an actual downside to this pick then maybe I could tolerate it, like a dilution of the gas, but the sheer lethality of the gas as it stands right now with the extended range makes most areas a nightmare to assault or defend which is where I have a few problems with. Sure with the new weapon balance, marines can shoot and hit the boiler from further away but it's not normally enough to deter it from holding a spot and letting fly.

Ya I think the extended gas needs to go. I also think gas duration needs to be lowered. Boiler should never beable to fire gas then run in and melt a cade themselves before the gas disappears. That is just stupid. The problem is you cant nerf gas too much cause its one of the few tools xenos have to keep marine unga rushes back at the start of the game when xenos are weak. But ya for attacking fob it is way too good.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/5478

Way more interesting options, IMO

[FGRSentinel]

Boilers have always been cancer in FOB assaults. I've been a member of a three Boiler assault team that kept the cades permanently empty by staggering our gas shots so one always hit after another was clearing up. The Marines ended up evacuating the planet because of that, that's how bad it was. This was all pre-mutator, but it's still just as bad.

As someone who loves to play Boiler when I go beno, I have to say it does not fit into the game very well. Every FOB assault includes a Boiler and they make defending impossible and unfun.

[KingKire]

Honestly, gas wouldnt be that bad if gas masks actually did something to normal acid clouds

-If you could see at least 1 or two tiles ahead in a gas cloud, you can at least stop the worst of the cade attacks
- If the mask actually reduced damage a considerable degree, it would be worth it to keep the gas mask on, even with the two tile vision reduction.

I dont understand why gas masks are so weak. Sure, acid melts through everything, but gameplay wise, it makes the game so much better when the solution to a problem is another problem in of itself.

Ex: Why just have the solution to gas be run away. If were gonna have players waste a valuable item slot, 2-4 tiles of vision, and the time to put on the gas mask, then let the player do that. Let the player cripple themselves to promote more gameplay options. This opens up more options for xenos to run into the attack, the queen to screech, etc.

If you want to add a balance factor to the gas mask, dont make the gas mask suck. Just add a timer to putting on the mask. Force an actual choice from the player. (Hey, the gas mask works well in gas, but your gonna have to put it on/ take it off). A gas mask takes 3 seconds of not moving to put on, and 1 second of not moving to take off.

Make it require a little air tank, if you really want to handicap it.

Now we have an actual legitimate side option to running away from gas.

[Boersgard]

Xenos are highly dependent on those gas attacks to keep marines at bay. Xenos with no boilers = almost guaranteed xeno loss.
On the flipside, boiler gas attacks are absolutely unmitigated cancer for marines to deal with.

Marines need more effective counterplay for interrupting boilers, and xenos need better options for slowing unga rushes and dealing with FOBs without a queen/boiler around.

I'm not really sure what the best answer is for these two things.

[FGRSentinel]

Up until recently it seemed like the CAS rework would make CAS a hard counter for the Boiler, but it sounds like the Boiler is going to get an AA capability to allow it to damage the modules of the CAS bird as part of the rework, making it a cancerous threat on the ground and one of, if not the only, Xeno castes to serve as a hard counter for something meant to be the only real solo threat against it.

The fact that the game's result is so easily decided by "does the hive have competent Boilers?" honestly reminds me of the heated debates about the Tank before it was removed. Unlike the tank though, a Boiler can't FF other xenos or injure its teammates just by moving around, so a bad Boiler can't hurt the hive in the same way a bad TC can hurt the Marines (the only way it hurts the hive is that it takes up a T3 slot until it dies, but even a bad Boiler can still do decent damage against the Marines or help push them back)

[Drone404]

Mutators are bit boring at moment and make the young xenos are weak, mature too strong problem worse.

Perhaps every mutator could have a flaw builtin, making it a choice whether to take a mutator or not.
Increased speed, less health.
More armor, less damage.
Fire immunity, less health.
etc,

[Renomaki]

Mutators are bit boring at moment and make the young xenos are weak, mature too strong problem worse.

Perhaps every mutator could have a flaw builtin, making it a choice whether to take a mutator or not.
Increased speed, less health.
More armor, less damage.
Fire immunity, less health.
etc,

This is just as I think mutations should work. Give and take, you know?

Although, I myself would like more freedom in what I give up in return for an upgrade, to create a greater diversity and customization.

Although I'd probably want to make sure that mutations like the TACKLE upgrade/downgrade are removed, since that could be abused. Make it so they HAVE to give up a primary trait instead of a secondary minor trait that often goes unused.

[CABAL]

"Flaw" mutator isn't even a flaw to be honest. As defender you pick plasma if you don't want to be preatorian, as runner also this, as spitter you are taking tackle and as drone you are taking dmg. It's just straight boost.

It would be better to have mutators that counter each other: Health boost - Armor nerf, Armor boost - Health Nerf, Dmg boost - speed nerf, Speed boost - Dmg nerf, etc.

We are just repeating ourself by now.

[Ketrai]

Mutators are bit boring at moment and make the young xenos are weak, mature too strong problem worse.

Perhaps every mutator could have a flaw builtin, making it a choice whether to take a mutator or not.
Increased speed, less health.
More armor, less damage.
Fire immunity, less health.
etc,

But then you get devs adding flaws, so you can take a pointless "flaw" that you give away something pointless, and take big dick damage in return.