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Thread: Staff Report - Pfanner, Forest

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    Staff Report - Pfanner, Forest

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Casada_Radio
    Date of Incident
    January 16, 2021
    Your Character Name?
    Yuri Gennady Gregorovich
    Their BYOND Key
    Pfanner, Forest
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    Around...9:00 CST
    Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Do Not Abuse your Power & Remaining Professional
    Description of the incident
    Ok so to preface, long story short I got noted for this:

    LRP/18+ - SSGT Yuri Gennady Gregorovich Unzips pants and starts to Urinate on the Alpha Spec - warned firmly for this. Next offense of that caliber should be a ban.
    on 2021-01-16 08:53:26

    RP reason is they had beds setup on hangar. I called them degenerates and this Alpha Spec told me to shut up said said some stuff I cant really recall. I then proceeded with normal escalation to pee on the spec.

    No shorter than that I was warned that it was a breach of Rule 1, 18+. I was naturally confused because since when is urinating a sexual act, and the last time I got noted for something similar was by Forest for farting, because it was 18+ as well.

    Logs will show that I tried to clarify with the Mod about the context of 18+ which really dumbfounded me since it is considered to be a particular kink. I will get on this in detail later.

    I argued that LRP makes more sense than a 18+ rule break, which Pfanner eventually modified. So far I have nothing against it being a LRP rulebreak and being firmly warned about it. I can go on and on about how I havent done it for the last 2 years but I respect the mod and I therefore respect his decision on it.

    Eventually I enquired via ahelp about my note history out of curiosity and realised it is still considered LRP/18+. The more I think about this the more it worries me that this is even considered 18+ Context. So I talked to the mod, Pfanner, further that I really do not understand how that fits into the context because that opens up a floodgate of implications you can with 18+. Pfanner was actually open modifying my note to remove 18+ to which I have no problem, I have no problem with the bannable offense warning. Pfanner then said he has to ask with the manager.

    During our discussion, Pfanner showed me the screenshot of the latest Rule Clarifcation in Discord which shows this:

    https://i.imgur.com/D5moEMM.png

    Pfanner then advised me to make a report if I was unhappy about it. I dont really want to report him but I am unsure of Report procedure that is why I included his name in the report.

    Now, the problem is the Context of 18+ which is really worrying me and I am sure it worries others. 2 Years ago I was noted for Farting as Runner because it was considered 18+ sexual content. I sounded this out in the forum post to which TheSoldierLLJK was in, linked here: //showthrea...hlight=farting

    My note was modified to this:
    Warned for LRP: the Mature Runner (854) Farts very loudly
    on 2019-02-19 00:00:00

    What really amazes me is how Farting and Urinating can be considered a kink, which is unhygenic! But what is even more worrying is the amount of things can be fitted into the Rule 1 Break. This was the major ground rule that establishes what is a breach of rule 1:

    "Roleplay intended to elicit a sexual response from the receiver(s), including but not limited to writing stories (WGW) or posting links to adult content"

    There is no established intent to elicit sexual response. I called them degenerates, someone called me back with bad names, I peed on him in great disrespect as opposed to shooting him which is a rulebreak. Is there an establsihed Culture that calls or court women by peeing? Do animals give the call of nature via the release of bladder, the waste of their insides, a call to mate? I didnt even strip the dude.

    Here are some videos of movies where in normal cirumstances you pee a dude in disrespect:

    African
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2-Ww-cadFI

    Asian
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3YbxgXq6dU

    The West
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAwS3QXdcw4

    Cartoon of people doing a Peeing Contest
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B25trCbdBJ8

    Austin Powers (This is a PG-13 Movie as shown in IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118655/)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ31suw8BlU

    Note they do not proceed to perform sexual acts after that. Note that it is a reaction of humiliation/disgust/shock/annoyance/anger. They dont give you an aroused or kinky look after that, which by the way I am not going to link in the report unless requested in case I accidentally break Rule 1 again. Note that

    Next is, the argument that kink is varied by tastes. Very well, first I want to say is that this argument is dangerous. As mentioned to Pfanner, you open a floodgate as to what is even a kink. I mean Urinating is not even a normal thing but let's forgo that.

    cuffing people is an established kink, is that rule 1 break as well?

    Stripping marines to replace their clothing with prisoner clothing, showing their naked body. Is that a kink?

    Puting people on anaestic on the Surgery Table, where you can ACTUALLY close the surgery room shutters and do your think. Is that an implied kink?

    Now let's go with section 2, body parts. I described no genitals but it seems by urinating or discharging my bladder, it is implied that there is an involvement of Genitals.

    Very well, Men's Genitals is a functioning part of the body to give courage to men. By unga dungaing into the frontlines it is implied that marines have used their genitals to move forward. Is it implied description of Genitals?

    Next, it is allowed for xenomorphs to target slash the groin thereby giving organ damage to marines(at least the last time I remember this was so) The groin is where your genitals is. Therefore is it implied that xenomorphs have molested marines in combat by touching and slashing their genitals that magically recovered through bicardine.

    Facehugger, violated face of marines through use of their own genitals. Should we remove facehuggers?

    Doctors need to operate on the marine's groin due to possible IB or Bone broken. However, it is likely you will have to touch the balls as well. Is it implied then?

    Now you may be saying, they do not elicit sexual response, and that is true(With perhaps the exception of xenomorphs since their facehuggers technically violates marines to impregnate them, I rather not go that far with THIS kink), now let me ask you this:

    In what way is urinating on a person elicits a sexual response? It varies from person to person? Ok, On what basis is it established that kink is considered a kink? The Protein bars are shaped rectangular and can be implied by eating I want sexual response from the other man by eating the bar, like the movie Horrible Bosses when the female ate...foods...inappropriately.

    That is the problem I have, which is worrying because it seems the Rule 1 break can be applied to almost anything. How I, as a normal SS13 CM Player, am going to play following the rules when it seems to encompass, unknowingly and oddly and rather applied weirdly, in gameplay?
    Evidence
    Ingame discussions can be found in logs

    As for the PM Discussion between Pfanner and I, the full wordings as follows(Monofreak = Me, flarek = Pfanner):

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:39
    Hey uh, I know I said I am fine with what you said earlier but
    [23:39]
    I have been doing some thinking and
    [23:39]
    I am really still bummed with the context of 18+. And I am sure
    [23:39]
    You did it on instructions from Forest

    flarekYesterday at 23:40
    no i asked forest about it

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:40
    Oh

    flarekYesterday at 23:40
    and he said to handle it
    [23:40]
    so I did

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:40
    To me, what is worrying is the context of the 18+ thing

    flarekYesterday at 23:40
    and pissing on people is not really roleplay, at all. It's LRP at its finest. why I think it's 18+? Because even if you aren't refering to your genitals, it's still implied. Because how do you piss?
    [23:40]
    I don't think I need to get into too much detail there

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:40
    Uhm

    flarekYesterday at 23:41
    But if you really want, I can remove it as an 18+ note
    [23:41]
    the note will still remain under LRP
    [23:41]
    and a next caliber offense of that level will still be a ban

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:41
    I think you should, context of 18+ is really sexual interaction OR related. Urinating is a form of bladder control

    @flarek
    and a next caliber offense of that level will still be a ban

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:41
    Nothing wrong with this
    [23:42]
    I really still think the 18+ is out of context
    [23:42]
    Cause if we open the floodgate to this

    flarekYesterday at 23:42
    i'll quickly get it verified again hold on

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:42
    Ok
    [23:43]
    then screaming rape, getting laid, etc should be 18+ cause its implied sexual interaction
    [23:43]
    What I did was really bladder release

    flarekYesterday at 23:43
    someone did get banned for a long time yesterday for screaming rape.

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:43
    Lmao what
    [23:43]
    epic

    flarekYesterday at 23:43
    using it in a bad context once is borderline
    [23:44]
    going overboard with it, ban

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:44
    alright

    flarekYesterday at 23:46
    ok so
    [23:46]
    the note will have to stay as it is
    [23:46]
    because
    [23:46]


    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:46
    What th-
    [23:46]
    Biggest
    [23:46]
    Its Forest isnt it
    [23:47]
    You know
    [23:47]
    this is kinda
    [23:47]
    a bit of an extreme

    flarekYesterday at 23:47
    right(edited)
    [23:47]
    well I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you really want to contest it, you'll have to make a staff report on me in this case

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:48
    Dang bro
    [23:48]
    Staff report you
    [23:48]
    Ugh

    flarekYesterday at 23:48
    well there won't be any other way around it

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:49
    I thought I could like staff report the manager behind this
    [23:49]
    You're just doing your job
    [23:49]
    Dang
    [23:49]
    Ok let me think about this

    flarekYesterday at 23:49
    the initial ruling of that was made by myself
    [23:49]
    i just asked managment if its backed up by them
    [23:49]
    so it is

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:49
    Oh
    [23:51]
    So ignoring the chances of success and failure
    [23:52]
    Procedures for staff report to modify note is allowed?

    flarekYesterday at 23:52
    I mean it won't be modified now then

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:52
    so what am I staff reporting for

    flarekYesterday at 23:52
    i mean
    [23:52]
    let me see

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:52
    Honestly, with you, not really
    [23:52]
    I feel that
    [23:53]
    the case is stronger against a manager
    [23:53]
    or the manager behind it

    flarekYesterday at 23:53
    I mean you can report me or forest
    [23:53]
    won't really change it in the end

    @flarek
    won't really change it in the end

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:53
    elaborate

    flarekYesterday at 23:53
    if you report me, a manager will most likely handle it
    [23:54]
    if you report forest, someone above him will handle it
    [23:54]
    so very likely grimcad or someone

    MonoFreakYesterday at 23:54
    However, option to report either is allowed right?

    flarekYesterday at 23:54
    if you want to
    [23:55]
    if anything
    How you would punish the accused
    Please inform the manager, as much as I admire his start to try to consolidate a working visible rule clarifications book, but try to be reasonable as well.

  2. #2
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    I have no comment for this. The fact you are attempting to defend RP of urinating on someone is pretty astounding to me.
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    My only statement to this is:

    It happened on the server. I ruled it both a violation of our RP Standards and +18 rule. I brought it up with Forest and he clarified it for me afterwards that it's disgusting and clearly a violation of rule +18 in that regard.


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    Quote Originally Posted by forest2001 View Post
    I have no comment for this. The fact you are attempting to defend RP of urinating on someone is pretty astounding to me.
    Hello sir, I know you have a busy time but please re-read my report. No where did I defend RP of urinating. I was, infact, worried of the application of Rule 1.

    Please quote on which particular section of my report that I am defending 'RP'.

    It is not a good sign of professionalism if you do not thoroughly read the accuser's report and further proves my worries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pfanner View Post
    snip
    Hi, as shown in the report, the videos I have shared are known to be a joke. Cartoons, movies that are open to PG-13 or Kids. It is therefore back to my report that the application of Rule 1 is the issue once again. What is construed as 18+?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    What is construed as 18+?
    I don't know if you read the picture I sent or not, but I'd advise you read it again, it's a self-answering question.

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    Staff reserve the right to make judgement calls on situations to determine if they constitute a breach of 18+ or erotic conduct. If something is overly disgusting or crosses a line in a way that becomes an 18+ situation, it may be punished for regardless of nature. The above are guidelines for reference, and it is highly not recommended to straddle the line along what is and is not allowed when dealing with erotic/18+ content.
    Closed. You shouldn't be RPing peeing on people. While you're at it, this report is basically taking the piss, too.

    Take the fact you didn't cop a permaban and just don't do it again.
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