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Thread: SolidFury7 - Rule 14 and 17.

  1. #1
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    SolidFury7 - Rule 14 and 17.

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Troontjelolo1010

    Date of Incident
    January 28, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Tom Hendriks

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    SolidFury7

    Accused Character Name
    William 'Jester' Crimson

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    Around 6:05

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 14 and 17.

    Description of the incident:
    When the Normandy is about to take off with loads of marines to try and take back the colony, Alamo is hijacked and CO orders everyone to bunker down in CIC along with opening the armoury. I go and grab my armour along with and shotgun but see most of the buckshot was looted already. A Bravo SL (Ckey and IC name cant remember) marches into the CIC armoury and takes the rest of the buckshot ammo. I start barking at him to give it back since I was left with only 4 or 5 buckshot shells since a Bravo SL took stuff from the CIC armoury, which is a dick move. I start pushing him demanding he give me my ammo back. The CO notices this and starts shouting at us to head to briefing and then walks away again. I realise that without buckshot doing that would be suicide so I still keep pushing the SL and try to take his backpack to get my ammo back (didn't even go past the UI where you can grab it). The CO comes back again and seeing the pushing match still happening BEs me on the spot and then goes on to not even push to briefing himself despite that being his excuse.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    proof he shot me because i didn't push
    Screenshot Transcript:
    "I literally shot an SO (me) because he wasn't pushing and [was] too busy fighting [the bravo SL]."
    https://gyazo.com/0f8ef67182e295eface24a3af1505b0a


    Eyewitness that CO did in fact NOT push himself, and thus being an incredible hypocrite.
    Screenshot Transcript: "You (CO) told some marines to push [briefing] while you stayed in CIC with another group."
    https://gyazo.com/04d7f9853202f09c544369eb5ed98ebc

    How you would punish the accused:
    Note him. It was a heated moment so I can see where he came from so I wouldn't take away his CO p r i v e l e g e s yet but if he continues behaviour like this I think it's better he just takes a break from being a CO.

  2. #2
    Admin Warfan1815's Avatar
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    Will pull logs
    "Come on chaps! Why just dust off the OB flames it'll create. Nothing the USCM can't handle!"
    Currently playing as a sublimely gentlemanly British chap: Warris 'Haig' Fernsby

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    Thanks. I remember ahelping but I can't remember who it was who responded.

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    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    The orders were to hunker in the CIC, wait for the breach, then locate it VIA cameras before pushing out.

    Aliens breached the ship, I was checking cameras locating the breach location with another officer, I found it, called the distress and ordered the marines to push out.

    Meanwhile, you were too busy repeatedly fighting someone for ammo, when the north lockers were full of ammo and weapons, even if they were only rifles.

    I ordered you to stop fighting the Squad Leader and push, you ignored the ordered as soon as I left the room to start fighting again.

    So, you're not only ignoring a direct order from the Commodore during a Delta Alert situation, you're also stopping another marine, a SQUAD LEADER from doing it.

    Regarding the "witness statements", the individual wasn't present on the scene, his comments were the usual vague "command bad, command did nothing" despite I was engaged in combat with a Queen, Boiler and a Runner, and recovered nearly all the PMCs who died, reviving them, after this, the pushed failed so we hunkered down and tried to hold the CIC. Not that "failing to push myself" while leading from the CIC would be a legitimate argument, if it was even true, nor even remotely relevant to the report.

    Rule 14 is about lethal force, which is covered by BE's, if you are not aware.
    Rule 17 is about mutinies, I cannot mutiny against myself.


    TLDR: During a Delta Alert, you attacked a Squad Leader preparing to push out, thus stopping him from leading his squad and fighting himself, you ignored a direct order to stop fighting and I had to step in to handle it personally.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  5. #5
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    I'd just like to point something out:



    Just going to leave this here as evidence.
    Last edited by Pfanner; 01-28-2021 at 01:47 PM.

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    Before anything else I should add that I meant rule 16, not 17. That was a typo and only notice now it has been pointed out, apologies for the misunderstanding that caused.

    Rule 14 says "Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fist fight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight. Should one defend themselves from grief or improper escalation, the staff handling the matter decides if a punishment is given out and to who. Staff may also decide to leave things in character. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law."

    I assumed rule 14 would also cover BEs done for bad/false reasons, and I think I can say it'd be fair for me to think that.

    >I ordered you to stop fighting the Squad Leader and push, you ignored the ordered as soon as I left the room to start fighting again.

    I continued pushing the Bravo SL whilst you were still in the room and I am pretty sure that I explained to you why I was pushing him, you went away whilst I was still pushing him. I ignored a direct CO, order, yes, but this is not grounds for a BE since it was just a petty push fight and could've easily been resolved if you just told the Bravo SL to give the buckshots back.


    >So, you're not only ignoring a direct order from the Commodore during a Delta Alert situation, you're also stopping another marine, a SQUAD LEADER from doing it.

    The Bravo SL stopped me from pushing effectively since without the buckshot I couldn't have been able to do an effective push. A pistol and 4 buckshot shots won't do a lot and I already told the Bravo SL several times to give the buckshot back. He didn't and I tried to get it back myself.

    I assume the BE was because of the following line in marine law.

    >Countermanding or refusing to follow orders is [a threat to your command].

    I never refused the order to push, I just didn't/couldn't want to do it at that time since I was still busy trying to get my buckshot back from the SL who stole it right in front of me. If anything, the SL himself stopped me from being able to actively and effectively push by taking ammuntion away from me that I badly needed not only for self defense but also to help with the push.


    >Meanwhile, you were too busy repeatedly fighting someone for ammo, when the north lockers were full of ammo and weapons, even if they were only rifles.

    I assume you mean south lockers since north lockers are where the shotguns are, but when the pushing match went to the south lockers there were zero rifles there.


    Regardless, you could've handled this better. Not only was shooting me not helpful, it was counterproductive. I could've helped with the push onto briefing if you would've just ordered the SL to give the buckshots back. And even if you couldn't be bothered to do that, you could've just pushed me out of the way to make room for the SL. If you already give up after giving one order and immediatly resort to not only BE me but also then stopping me from being healed and revived.

    One last thing: We weren't fighting and I never intended to actually hurt him. Only combat log should be from when I accidently grabbed a phoron tank mid shove competition and bonked him with it. I dropped it right after and continued my shoving match to try and get my buckshot back.

  7. #7
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troontjelolo1010 View Post

    >I ordered you to stop fighting the Squad Leader and push, you ignored the ordered as soon as I left the room to start fighting again.

    I continued pushing the Bravo SL whilst you were still in the room and I am pretty sure that I explained to you why I was pushing him, you went away whilst I was still pushing him. I ignored a direct CO, order, yes, but this is not grounds for a BE since it was just a petty push fight and could've easily been resolved if you just told the Bravo SL to give the buckshots back.
    Yes, you started a fight during a Delta Alert, which was tying up one of the SLs and yourself, and upon being told to stop, you continued as I left. Delta Alert is quite literally the most severe situation and alert level one can get on to, one which can result in the ship being scuttled with SD. This is not being BE'ed during a green alert for having a fight in prep. They are both completely different situations.
    >Countermanding or refusing to follow orders is [a threat to your command].

    I never refused the order to push, I just didn't/couldn't want to do it at that time since I was still busy trying to get my buckshot back from the SL who stole it right in front of me. If anything, the SL himself stopped me from being able to actively and effectively push by taking ammuntion away from me that I badly needed not only for self defense but also to help with the push.
    Failure to follow a direct order, is refusing the order. Especially when its something so simple, the CIC was secure at this time and had 0 xenomorphs nearby. You were told to stop fighting, you continued to fight, your actions were disobeying a direct order.
    Regardless, you could've handled this better. Not only was shooting me not helpful, it was counterproductive. I could've helped with the push onto briefing if you would've just ordered the SL to give the buckshots back. And even if you couldn't be bothered to do that, you could've just pushed me out of the way to make room for the SL. If you already give up after giving one order and immediatly resort to not only BE me but also then stopping me from being healed and revived.
    During a Delta Alert situation, I don't have time to quite honestly, babysit individuals who are going against orders and stopping other people from doing orders that could save everyone on the ship. You are saying that, while organising the ships defences and the push-out, I should have taken out the time to personally resolve an issue, you chose to personally press in that manner I told you not to continue with, you could have walked up to any other marine and asked for ammo or even asked for a weapon from me if the situation was so dire.

    You were stopped from being revived because well, I didn't want you getting up and killing me. The only reason you were not BE'ed mechanically straight away, is because it bugged out, which I mentioned in LOOC and IC.


    I personally think it is a rather clearcut case, as we've had similar situation sin the past, I've explained my reasoning and actions, I'll standby waiting for this to be resolved or for further questions if need be.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  8. #8
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    I won't respond to most of the point's you made, not because I think they're invalid points but because at this point it's better to wait for an admin response since we're close to just repeating points and that won't get us anywhere. That and I feel pretty statisfied with your points and can see where you're coming from, even though I still think you overreacted.


    >You were stopped from being revived because well, I didn't want you getting up and killing me.
    I would never, counterproductive and it'd be a dick thing to do.

    Also jeez dude you didn't have to beat my body even more after I was down. Not cool.

    >The only reason you were not BE'ed mechanically straight away, is because it bugged out, which I mentioned in LOOC and IC.
    Didn't see that, too distracted by intense clicking.


    For now we'll just wait for logs and wait for admins to come to a conclusion from said logs.

  9. #9
    Admin Warfan1815's Avatar
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    Sorry for taking so long, but here it is. Red for SolidFury7, Green for Troontjelolo1010

    SolidFury7 announces pre-main event
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Confrontation about taking buckshot shells

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Tom Hendrik's combat logs against Reno Flake

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Further verbal confrontation + announcement update

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Further combat logs + CO move order
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CO intervenes + further disarming logs + Tom Hendriks is BE'd

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Post-mortem misc logs
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    "Come on chaps! Why just dust off the OB flames it'll create. Nothing the USCM can't handle!"
    Currently playing as a sublimely gentlemanly British chap: Warris 'Haig' Fernsby

  10. #10
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    As you can see, three minutes roughly from the order to push briefing to the recall order showing that we were then to hold the CIC.

    I think it shows how time critical I needed them both on the field and how such an argument placed the operation at risk, especially how their argument took up 1 minute 30 seconds of that time (before I intervened, it would have continued longer if I did not)
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

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