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Thread: Unknown - 14, 16

  1. #1
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    Unknown - 14, 16

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    bardinatavern

    Date of Incident
    February 2, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Jameson 'Drugman' Hawkins

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Unknown

    Accused Character Name
    Zhilov 'The Bear' Igorev

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    9 AM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    14, 16

    Description of the incident:
    A marine named Grub Dunkers had been arrested earlier in the round. Now, while I was in brig one of his friends came in with C4 to commit a jailbreak. He blew it, and the CO came in with another person who I think was in delta. The CO and the other person I believe saw Blackwell, the guy who blew the brig leaving. At this point the CO then pointed to me and said I was a "traitor" and went to have an MP arrest me.
    After a minute long scuffle during which I repeatedly asked to stop, speak to me, said Blackwell (Who they knew was in brig at the time) did it, and was peppersprayed

    Apparently Zhilov felt that I was as per marine law a "threat to the ship" because he started shooting me and went to BE me while I was disablered and peppersprayed, unarmed. I fired back a shot but it was too late by this point, and he finished me before announcing I had been BE'd for jailbreak.

    Now, the reason this is incredibly stupid is if he had listened to me, talked to me, etc he'd know it wasn't me who did it. He also decided to shoot me so I couldn't say anything, while I was unarmed peppersprayed and disablered. Marine law dictates a BE must be because someone is "credibly threatening" command, ship or crew. I am no expert, but I think an unarmed person who is disablered does not constitute such. If he had followed the standards set in marine law for BE he'd have found out that I didn't do the jailbreak, and he was having me perma'd for nothing.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    https://gyazo.com/0d9d5c7637e1853e6c1ce0705d0a4021

    Him saying I'm a traitor and going to have me arrested, note that I'm explaining what happened as he does this

    https://gyazo.com/92bdf79c1716048f47f91986f025ee9c

    Me asking why and continuing to try to talk to him, while being disablered

    https://gyazo.com/07bca7a3227423f79ed5d7fa57c59a3d

    Me getting BE'd while unarmed, disablered, peppersprayed, because I am clearly a credible threat to the sthip. I did fire back after a few shots had been fired

    https://gyazo.com/b4792eb054ac4dfb388583580ce125a4

    His announcement, declaring I had been BE'd for jailbreak and murder. Note that I didn't commit the jailbreak, Albert did.

    How you would punish the accused:
    Removal of CO whitelist. If he wants to look for any excuse he can to BE and will BE a Staff Officer who's unarmed and disablered, then he shouldn't have the ability to BE.

  2. #2
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    Didn't mean to post this before round end, can the thread be hidden til' round ends?

  3. #3
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    Igorev here, you left a lot of information out so I will try my best to tell the full story from my point of view. I joined late into the round, around 12:30, and immediately got told to come to the brig after a delta SL killed the XO. That SL was Grub Dunkers who killed the XO and tried to kill another marine, Connor Anderson, after the XO tried to make him wear a helmet. In the brig I spoke to the XO and a MP who confirmed this was the case, outside the brig Anderson and the delta SG Albert Blackwell were waiting to give their account of what happened. Both marines were insisting we put Dunkers in the top isolation cell which was strange but I ignored it. I told the two marines to come into brig and speak to the MP while I made sure the operation was running smoothly.

    After making a quick visit to the CiC I returned to brig to oversee the execution of Dunkers. When I got back into the brig Anderson shouted that him and Blackwell were planning to jailbreak Grub and that is why they hadn't deployed. I ordered a MP to stun Blackwell, Anderson managed to push him over and search him revealing he was carrying C4 which was left on the floor. Anderson also told me that a LT named Hawkins was going to help them get Grub out of jail. I came up with a plan to confirm this story, I told a MP and Blackwell to hide in a side room while I told Hawkins to get to brig to help Anderson with something. Hawkins arrived and both myself and the MP left the brig to go look at cameras, leaving Blackwell cuffed behind two id locked doors. Once we left the brig we heard an explosion and when we came back in Blackwell was gone with Dunkers having escaped with C4. Anderson told us Hawkins had released Blackwell and allowed him to C4 the cell, assisting in a jailbreak. I told the MP to cuff Hawkins who refused and began resisting, Hawkins started to run out of the brig and I warned him if he continued he would get shot. Hawkins ran out of the brig and while a MP tried to flash him I shot him once with my mateba. Hawkins got up, pulled out his pistol, and fired an entire mag at me which hit a doctor who was running past the brig. I then fully BEd Hawkins and announced he had been killed for jailbreak and murder.

    From my point of view you committed two capital crimes, jailbreak and murder. Logs might prove that to be wrong but from the information available to me I had every right to BE you. Because you were the only person in the brig with access to MP locked doors it must have been you who let Blackwell out and allowed him to C4 Dunkers' cell, you had promised them earlier to help them. I warned you not to run out of brig or you will be shot which you ignored. After you were BEd you then decided to rant in Dchat and discord calling me a nonce and a dick while refusing to listen to my reasoning behind what happened. You claimed in Dchat that you were stunned which is false because how did you kill the doctor if you were? You also claim that Blackwell was the one who broke Dunkers out which is true but you were the one who let him out of the two locked doors and watched as he planted C4 without calling for help, according to ML jailbreak is: "To escape, assist in an escape, attempt escape, or be willfully and knowingly broken out from your cell."

  4. #4
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    It's really funny you brought up "you left a lot of information out" then proceeded to do the exact same thing to make a point.

    "I told the MP to cuff Hawkins who refused and began resisting, Hawkins started to run out of the brig and I warned him if he continued he would get shot. Hawkins ran out of the brig and while a MP tried to flash him I shot him once with my mateba."

    See, what you left out is that this took over a minute. and a significant amount happened. I didn't immediately run out of the brig - I ran out after spending a while trying to explain, getting pepprsprayed, disablered, etc. You also didn't mention I had been peppersprayed, stunned, and disablered. I am also pretty sure you did not say I'd be shot if I kept running. You also fail to mention that after exiting the brig door I stopped again and tried explaining to you what happened, at which point you pulled a gun and shot me.

    ". I warned you not to run out of brig or you will be shot which you ignored"
    If you said that I didn't hear it, guess we'll have to wait for logs.
    "Because you were the only person in the brig with access to MP locked doors it must have been you who let Blackwell out and allowed him to C4 Dunkers' cell, you had promised them earlier to help them"
    Okay pro tip, if you want someone to be arrested leaving them in an MP room they don't have access to doesn't look like they're arrested. I did let him out of the room, but that was because he wasn't in a cell, and appeared to just be stuck without access.

    I didn't shoot him while he was C4ing dunkers cell and did joke about that, but that was because it was just about already placed at that point and I didn't want to get shot.
    " You claimed in Dchat that you were stunned which is false because how did you kill the doctor if you were?"
    Again, this is down to you leaving out significant amounts of information. The explanation is that I didn't just see you and immediately run out of brig like you're trying to portray - I was trying to explain to you what happened and got stunned once during that. Because you made it seem like this happened very quickly with almost no detail about the arrest, it seems like I was stunned but also shot someone at the same time. In reality I got stunned once, and the shooting happened about 30 seconds or so later.

    The shooting ITSELF is irrelevant, because that happened after you had begun BEing me and had already shot me once with the Mateba. As you already said you "Fully BE'd" me after the shooting - you had already hit me once with the mateba and were in the process of doing so.

    The thing is, everything about this so far is completely irrelevant to the report - it wasn't about me being arrested for a capital crime (although arguably I shouldn't have). It was about an improper BE. Everything we've brought up so far could be ignored.

    "
    From my point of view you committed two capital crimes, jailbreak and murder. Logs might prove that to be wrong but from the information available to me I had every right to BE you. "
    This shows me you do not understand the key point I was making.

    What was wrong with the BE wasn't an arrest. It's that you began shooting me while I was unarmed, having been peppersprayed and disablered, and was help intenting through an MP while asking him to stop or wait. I was not running away this point. I had also explained it was Blackwell and asked several times for you to wait. All these points about "Well it was really a crime though" or you compressing time to make it look like this happened faster is irrelevant. The BE would've still been improper even if I had commited jailbreak. The BE was improper, not the arrest. You did not address this at ANY point.
    Also the shooting of the doctor was me aiming at you, at that point you had begun BEing me and had already shot me once which is why I fired at you. Please don't act like that's a valid reason to have carried out the BE. That's like saying "Well, I was arresting someone for resisting arrest, and while I was doing that resisted arrest, which is why I arrested them in the first place".

  5. #5
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    Also I just noticed something
    "Anderson told us Hawkins had released Blackwell and allowed him to C4 the cell,"
    You knew full well Blackwell did the C4ing but still shot me with the mateba and were in the process of BEing me. Marine law requires a credible threat to persons, your command, or the ship. The unarmed person doing nothing, who you *knew* was doing nothing, is not a credible threat. Especially when they're unarmed and an MP is arresting them

  6. #6
    Yautja Council Member Joe Lampost's Avatar
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    hello the doctor in question here I would like to point out that the CO did warn you to stop running I believe it was something like "stop or you will get a metaba bullet in your legs" or something like that(you will have to pull logs to show this) . he shot at you to stop you not to BE you on the spot he BEd you because you mag dumped me in the process of trying to shoot the CO which in my opinion is a justifiable BE. if you did not run maybe we would not have to discuss the situation but that's just my opinion on the matter.

  7. #7
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    Grub here,

    It was a chaotic round for sure, and apologize to the people that got caught in the crossfire but I had no intentions of perma'ing anyone, everything was strictly IC'ly for me as Grub as he simply cannot wear a helmet as a character, which sounds silly since you can force the SL to wear a helmet and if they dont it becomes a problem but I made sure everyone was recovered after the shooting and called out the wounded.

    The captain literally woke up after I was brigged, and he was pretty confused and trying to figure out what was going on and why I was brigged, and in the middle of that the LT swung by in brig since they have access to check up on me. This was also arround the time when another delta was in the brig ready to commit jailbreak to get me out, the Captain could have easily mistaken the LT for the one responsible since they were literally, 5 seconds behind eachother and the jailbreaking delta managed to get out of sight just in time.

    I think it might have been a bit chaotic for anyone to fully realize what was going on. I do apologize to everyone who suffered the penalties but I'm glad I talked things out with a moderator on how to properly resolve a conflict like this instead of having it ruin the OP-start.

    I've had a few rounds before where setting up a mutiny would almost impossible since command and the MP's can actively hunt you down while you're busy setting one up, it ticked me off this round because every round where I've tried to set one up I've been snatched up, BE'D or dragged to jail before going through process properly.

    I freaked out after I was shoved, and cuffed yet again in the middle of it all so I panicked and shot the XO and someone else into crit for trying to detain me. I called it out afterwards and dragged the bodies to medical and surrendered after, and talked things out with a moderator on how I should have approached stuff instead. I got a big fair warning and everything that comes with it so this won't happen again but, I understand it might have been a bit chaotic for the captain at that time.

    Anyways, sorry ya'll.

  8. #8
    Senior Member AlbertBlackwell's Avatar
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    i was the SG


    in the MP equipment room east of perma
    vibing because i dont have access
    jameson comes and opens the door
    i run out and place C4 on the perma door while jameson ignores me and says something like "oh i'm too weak to fight against this"
    ok.png
    bomb has been planted
    window is smashed so i escape
    jameson gets BE'd
    jailbreak accomplished
    Chaotic puppet-master from hell

  9. #9
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    The BE was valid from what I saw. You stood by and watched Grub get broken out, it doesn’t matter if you were unarmed you still ran out of brig. At the time I first shot you you weren’t stunned, it was a warning shot to get you on the ground so you could be cuffed. You knew perfectly well that helping someone who killed the XO break out of prison would get you in trouble, I would’ve let MPs arrest you and execute you normally but the perma cells were half destroyed and I had two criminals (grub and Albert) who were trying to escape on Alamo. Play stupid games win stupid prizes - next time when you are a LT don’t let dangerous criminals be broken out of the brig and you won’t get BEd

  10. #10
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    "At the time I first shot you you weren’t stunned, it was a warning shot to get you on the ground so you could be cuffed."
    >Shot in the chest with the Mateba
    >Stated later that afterwards you were coming over to "Fully BE" me
    >It was just a warning shot I swear
    It seems like a lot of the time I hear someone say "play stupid games win stupid prizes" is when they're being vindictive and want to justify it.

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