User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38

Thread: Thing CM should implement from TGMC

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    189
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thing CM should implement from TGMC

    To kick this off, I have to say that overall in my opinion CM is superior to TGMC. It's a more balanced, more serious version of the 2.

    With that said, TGMC have some things that CM could implement. One of them is their weapons. First time I played I was kind of shocked that not only you can get an auto shotgun or a nade launcher as a regular marine, but you could even take an automatic 6-shotter nade launcher or an PRG right off the shelf. Or both as they cost 0 points. Want 20 claymores and 100 nades? No problem, it's all in your vendor. The amount of weapons - even extremely powerful ones - available for marines are amazing. I stopped playing PFC as a marine as a the same 4 weapon is boring, but TGMB has 20-30, maybe more?

    Also engi is really satisfying, take 4-5 sentries, maybe a special sentry why not. It's really cool to set up a little outpost all by yourself.

    But the place where TGMC shines over CM is the actual fight. Fight are...satisfying. Unlike in CM regular weapons DO damage to xenos. You can easily kill a small xeno in seconds with your barebone-base-no attachment rifle...and it's amazing. In CM you can shoot them till nighfall they won't take any meaningful damage, just go back and heal. But there I got more kills in a round than in CM in a week. And again, it feels amazing.

    Also injured xenos LOOK INJURED. Why is this not a thing in CM?

    With that said, CM is still an overall more refined game, but God damn the combat feels absolutely superior in TGMC. CAS, capet bombing, their version of OB and the sounds. Combat is sadly 10x better there than in CM. Can we expect any changes regarding this or we will only have the 4 guns with red blinking xenos forever?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Pigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    506
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reason PFCs don’t get RPGs is due to balance. 30 aliens can’t beat 100 RPGs

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think the easiest way to fix the req shit is just to give marines 100 points in the squad req. boom now you can have you attatchies and nades while taking the mini med.
    Felicity Bringh

  4. #4
    Senior Member special2kira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    426
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    generally if I had to say so cm after apop and darker emerald is a mistake.

  5. #5
    Senior Member AlbertBlackwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    TGMC is superior to CM. Why? TGMC is a TDM game it does that right, it ain't a RP game. CM is a weird mix mash of RP and TDM elements that doesn't work together, CM sucks at TDM.
    i play delta sl sometimes



    how did he get CO?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    399
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertBlackwell View Post
    TGMC is superior to CM. Why? TGMC is a TDM game it does that right, it ain't a RP game. CM is a weird mix mash of RP and TDM elements that doesn't work together, CM sucks at TDM.
    I often wonder if the devs know they are remaking Natural Selection 2...
    Felix the Synth: hat fanatic, nice robot, one time double agent almayer synth executed for sedition. Occasional murderous mopbot.

  7. #7
    Admin Manager AcuteCircle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,381
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ok u sold tgmc to me, im gonna try it
    NOT A SENATOR - Discord Melody#5387


    Spoiler Spoiler:


    ~Staff History~
    MANAGER

  8. #8
    Dev Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    With that said, TGMC have some things that CM could implement. One of them is their weapons. First time I played I was kind of shocked that not only you can get an auto shotgun or a nade launcher as a regular marine, but you could even take an automatic 6-shotter nade launcher or an PRG right off the shelf. Or both as they cost 0 points. Want 20 claymores and 100 nades? No problem, it's all in your vendor. The amount of weapons - even extremely powerful ones - available for marines are amazing. I stopped playing PFC as a marine as a the same 4 weapon is boring, but TGMB has 20-30, maybe more?
    Guns:
    TGMC has a shit-ton of guns but nearly all of those guns are almost identical. How many differences are there actually between the T-12 carbine and T-18 assault rifle? Are there enough to justify what is almost a carbon copy? What about the GMPG MG and the T-42 LMG? They're both LMGs that spit out lead with the only difference being the former has a lesser ROF and its larger ammo boxes don't fit anywhere. What the hell is the TX-11? The DMR and battle rifle? List goes on.

    Of course they aren't *all* identical. Like your post showed, they have auto-shotguns and whatnot. But here's the thing: In CM, we are somewhat restrained by our inspiration. There's no auto-shotguns in Aliens. This isn't just because there aren't *literal* auto-shotguns, otherwise the L42 wouldn't exist and neither would the Defender or Warrior castes, but what unique items we add need to fit the *theme* of Aliens. Marines having easy access to a full-auto shotgun that fires flechette at 600 RPM is not a very Aliens thematic thing. In TGMC, it's a TG-based server. They don't give that much of a shit about the theme and throw whatever comes close to fitting. This isn't bad, they have a LOT of content, but it's not what CM is going for. Every gun in CM fits the theme and has an unique niche. In TGMC, they loosely fit their theme and seemingly don't need anything other than a sprite.

    Explosives:
    I mean PFCs can get RPGs in TGMC but... there's only like one or two + req purchases. It's basically the same as regular CM with specialist limits?
    In addition, in TGMC, RPGs, and grenades, don't stun at all. Xenos just walk away after being indirectly hit and they're fine from my experience. This makes explosives significantly more give-able to the masses as stuns are the most powerful thing in any SS13 server. Meanwhile in CM if you get a direct AT hit you're dead, not due to damage, but due to the stun. A indirect HE hit, same thing, stun kills you. You can also be stunlocked by a grenade launcher. In addition, TGMC RPG ammo is even more limited than CM.

    Also it seems that the PFCs in TGMC.. don't hand-throw grenades? I'd love to import them here because holy shit the amount of people hand-throwing grenades here is unbelievable. If we had M40 nades for everyone they would just spend their time denying area for marines to push by randomly throwing hand grenades that do nothing except break 2 weeds. Like the private flamer kit, when the PVTs flamed the push and everyone had to wait for the flame to clear because they weren't smart enough to turn on the HME-12.

    Same thing with claymores.

    Also engi is really satisfying, take 4-5 sentries, maybe a special sentry why not. It's really cool to set up a little outpost all by yourself.
    Sentries..? I don't know how to respond to this. All I've seen sentries be used for is defending the FOB/Tadpole. They already do that in CM, it's just one per engineer. Also there's like, 3 engineers tops in TGMC. They're going to need a surplus of supplies because nobody ever goes engineer.

    But the place where TGMC shines over CM is the actual fight. Fight are...satisfying. Unlike in CM regular weapons DO damage to xenos. You can easily kill a small xeno in seconds with your barebone-base-no attachment rifle...and it's amazing. In CM you can shoot them till nighfall they won't take any meaningful damage, just go back and heal. But there I got more kills in a round than in CM in a week. And again, it feels amazing.
    You've been getting more kills than in CM because in TGMC xenomorphs are more reckless as they have easy, almost infinite respawns due to the recent spawn pool update that is intended to incentivize marine pushes. Have you never been in the situation in recent CM where, after hijack, a Defender or Runner (Though these do it all the time) just brainlessly rushes towards you and dies, perhaps after breaking someone's bone first? That's because they don't care too much about their own life as the xenos are getting new pooled larvae every minute to half-minute.

    Aside from that, combat is very exciting in TGMC. Xenos die easily, and so do marines. But this comes at a big drawback. Due to the Xenos' quick death in close and medium range due to the fullauto weapons, they need a *TON* of crowd control, AKA stun, abilities, to close the gap. This is why you see boiler gas being massive and spreading quickly, why defilers run in to shroud the area in neuro-smoke. Why praetorians have that ridiculous acid spray that spreads to half the screen. They need that stuff or they're going to be zerged by marines due to their extreme damage potential. As such, it's less that you're trading blows with xenos and more you're just waiting to well, be able to fight again, because if you overextend just a tad you're going to be severely punished for it with the abilities they get. If you're a little too overzealous it is very easy for a Shrike to blast you to the xenos, for a Crusher to fling you, and if that happens you're permanently dead.

    You might say well, Warriors in CM do that too, but the difference is they need setup to do that. They need to lunge, then fling, and during that period can be stunned by slugs or buckshot or magdumped with primaries which is effective if you chase. Queens can screech and drag back, but they're very slow. Runners can solo-capture you right now, but it can only happen if you're alone.

    Effectively, in TGMC, you're mostly waiting for the other side to make a mistake. This, from my experience, has resulted in a meta of permanent FOB siege, as the brave marines get a little too brave and die after a psychic fling and the only marines left are cowards who inmediately retreat, because for some reason cades are ungodly strong. Every time I've played TGMC it ends in marines staying behind cades plinking at xenomorphs that sometimes die out of boredom. It is a massive, systemic problem that thoroughly harms what is otherwise an amazing server. EORG matches are amazing except for having to turn the damn fullauto on every respawn.

    Also injured xenos LOOK INJURED. Why is this not a thing in CM?
    Because someone was willing to step up to the plate and sprite the damage state of *every single caste, several times*. This is a TON of work. In CM, nobody up until now has wanted to do that. Right now a contributor is looking at it and we might get damage sprites soon.

    No offense to the spriter, but I also believe the damage sprites in TGMC look a bit.. off. I often confuse dead xenos for crit xenos, and crit xenos for dead xenos. The non-crit damage states look bizarre and don't fit too well. You won't notice this in the heat of combat though.

    With that said, CM is still an overall more refined game, but God damn the combat feels absolutely superior in TGMC. CAS, capet bombing, their version of OB and the sounds. Combat is sadly 10x better there than in CM. Can we expect any changes regarding this or we will only have the 4 guns with red blinking xenos forever?
    This has all happened because of TGMC's open source codebase (And people from TG's OS coming by). We've been significantly out of date because while CS had its benefits it also closed LOTS of doors, such as updated backend like lightning or ambience. Since we've gone OS too, anyone can come in and bring what they want into the game, including you!

    I often wonder if the devs know they are remaking Natural Selection 2...
    Bro

  9. #9
    Junior Member ProBonoDrono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We've probably debated TGMC vs. CM many times before, but I'm quite new to the forums so I haven't seen it much. I started playing TGMC recently and while it has it's benefits I just think CM is a better experience overall. As Carlarc said, CM's thematic restrictions are an important part of it: CM has a rock-fucking-solid cassettepunk space Vietnam aesthetic which has remained consistent even after years of development with different devs, spriters, architects and so on. TGMC doesn't have the same consistent vision, and while this may seem like just the result of it still being in the process of shedding its' CM roots and being a weird mix of old and new in the meantime, there's still a lot of things purposefully added that are just thematically inappropriate such as the Halo armour sets, transatmospheric space A-10 (which sounds badass but can't be taken seriously in any capacity), neon-green chemical swords, standard-issue ballistic shields, and widely available musical instruments. What I'm saying is that things are added on the basis of sounding fun rather than being precisely fit into a jigsaw puzzle of established elements, which is important as CM, like SS13 in general; is meant to be more of an interactive narrative than a game, where you have fun regardless of if you win or lose.

    The reason I'm bringing this up is that this aesthetic isn't just visual, and it wouldn't be so important if that were the case; but it affects gameplay as well in a "I like the way this sucks" manner. Having a normal health integer would be the most efficient, but instead humans have to worry about limb health, organ damage, and chemical dosages; as well as having to go shipside for surgery if they're messed up too badly. This sounds like no fun at all, but the risk of this places emphasis on caution and allows a force to be realistically worn down from combat even if few actually die, and also results in dramatic situations where you're covered head-to-toe in splints, losing blood from an open incision and barely able to walk yet still shooting at xenos with your M4A3 during a sudden FOB assault and evac. Engineers have to spend up to half an hour building their own fortifications, but this changes the results of a siege depending on the competency of your engineers and Requisitions staff. The usual ungas are often armed with mediocre standard-issue weapons, but you surely know yourself the dopamine rush of awakening from hypersleep as one of the four specialists, or getting that exact thing you want from Requisitions after not being able to for the past two rounds. Even getting FF'd with an M37 loaded with buck really tests your patience with the guy who did it, and the guy himself will probably remember his mistake weeks later (especially if you befriend him afterwards) when in anything else you would just respawn or touch a medical kit.

    Compare this "you will spend 20 minutes in medbay and you will like it" gameplay philosophy to TGMC's emphasizing instant gratification and you will probably find just why many CM vets find it fun at first, but eventually get a feeling of "wrongness" which they can't exactly explain. Many people who get tired and leave do so because they focus only on shooting xenos and quickly exhaust all the loadouts they can try out, even the retarded meme ones until they've tried everything. Now, I don't look down on these people, their sensibilities are different and this game is great because it accommodates them just as it accommodates milsim RP turboautists like me, but I worry that a lot of people who would really enjoy the RP aspects and would have become the next Bill Carson if exposed to them end up just focusing on the shooting aspects, then getting tired and leaving much earlier. I know we've gone over the RP debate in the past, but I'm saying that TGMC eschewing the "I like the way this sucks" elements of CM are why it's NRP in practice despite having the same RP standards as CM in theory. I wish I could articulate myself better on this, but it's admittedly more of a gut-feeling thing.

    Furthermore, the focus on storytelling is important because both CM and TGMC will always be clunky shitheaps held together by duct tape, programming ingenuity, and sheer fucking will on virtue of using BYOND as an engine. It's absolutely shocking that they're even half as functional as they are despite using a single-threaded engine that is nearly two decades old and meant for anime-themed point-and-click games. Anyone who has no concern for RP or CM's lore and just wants a strategic large-scale TDM should buy Foxhole or Beyond the Wire, or something. Or Empires, that one's actually free.

    Anyway, thanks for reading my essay.
    Ike 'Urkel' Jameson - Young goggles-wearing nerd who barely passed Basic, just wants to go home to his impoverished Georgian suburb and collect a pension.
    Bret 'Locomotive' Cohen - A big guy for you and a big brother to all who's also in a perpetual dirty bulk.
    Rupert 'Spice' Ahmadi - An extraordinarily bellicose young man, even by Marine standards, who's in over his head but is yet to realize it.

    Also that healer drone who is always chasing you.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    189
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey Carlarc!

    Thank you for replying. That's what I like about this server, you can actually talk to people like you who have a direct effect on the game. All the suggestion I made was purely from a fun factor and not from balance standpoint. I'm not a veteran, only playing for about a year now, but during lockdown 10+ hours a day playing all roles all sides, that's why I felt like writing out some suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlarc View Post
    Guns:
    You've been getting more kills than in CM because in TGMC xenomorphs are more reckless as they have easy, almost infinite respawns due to the recent spawn pool update that is intended to incentivize marine pushes. Have you never been in the situation in recent CM where, after hijack, a Defender or Runner (Though these do it all the time) just brainlessly rushes towards you and dies, perhaps after breaking someone's bone first? That's because they don't care too much about their own life as the xenos are getting new pooled larvae every minute to half-minute.
    Yes, but that's only after hijack, doesn't really effect gameplay. Not sure how the larva system works in TGMC, only played xeno a couple of times there, but every time I saw one, I was excited fight him as I felt that I got a legit chance of killing it, even in 1v1. Yes he has to make mistakes and yes I have to be good, but it can be done. And I'm not some uber-robusto, just a regular player.

    In CM I simply refuse to fight. Unless it's a runner, I simply won't shoot at xenos as I can't possibly kill it or do any damage with a regular gun so what's the point. I rather go no armor and just run away. Why risk dieing or treating mysel when they can just heal up in 5 second that little damage I done risking my life? That's why I stopped carrying a gun and armor and just play anything else than PFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlarc View Post
    Xenos die easily, and so do marines. But this comes at a big drawback. Due to the Xenos' quick death in close and medium range due to the fullauto weapons, they need a *TON* of crowd control, AKA stun, abilities, to close the gap. This is why you see boiler gas being massive and spreading quickly, why defilers run in to shroud the area in neuro-smoke. Why praetorians have that ridiculous acid spray that spreads to half the screen. They need that stuff or they're going to be zerged by marines due to their extreme damage potential. As such, it's less that you're trading blows with xenos and more you're just waiting to well, be able to fight again, because if you overextend just a tad you're going to be severely punished for it with the abilities they get. If you're a little too overzealous it is very easy for a Shrike to blast you to the xenos, for a Crusher to fling you, and if that happens you're permanently dead.
    And I like that. What ever is the case, I have a legit change to defeating a xeno and they have a legit chance of killing me. It's exciting. In CM even as a xeno I actively try to avoid fights, unless I'm an ambush caste if I'm alone and there are 2-3 marines.Yes I could take out one maybe 2 easily. But why should I? They just gonna drag them back, debif and heal him to 100% HP while I'm healing on weeds. I wasted 10 minutes for nothing. In TGMC you bet your ass one of us is going to die and it will be fast and brutal, but that's why it's exciting. It's a showdown of who is better, not just "Let's fight for a bit, heal back to 100% HP and ignore each other after"

    Quote Originally Posted by carlarc View Post
    Because someone was willing to step up to the plate and sprite the damage state of *every single caste, several times*. This is a TON of work. In CM, nobody up until now has wanted to do that. Right now a contributor is looking at it and we might get damage sprites soon.
    You have no idea how amazing that would be. To me, this would prompt to play as a PFC again. This is part why it's satisfying to play TGMC as I can SEE that the xeno is suffering from my bullets. If it just blinks red, it feels like I'm just wasting my time shooting at it like in alien:isolation.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlarc View Post
    No offense to the spriter, but I also believe the damage sprites in TGMC look a bit.. off. I often confuse dead xenos for crit xenos, and crit xenos for dead xenos. The non-crit damage states look bizarre and don't fit too well. You won't notice this in the heat of combat though.
    Sure, but at least I can see that xeno is bleeding like a MOFO and took some scars from me. That's enough for me to know my gun is actually shooting bullets, not just hot air that makes them blink red.

    Thanks for the reply. I could not play for now as every second day I'm getting connection errors and I tried literally everything. Even regedit type deep and nothing solves it.

    Keep it up!
    Last edited by Fix it again Tony; 02-23-2021 at 09:33 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •