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Thread: An unhinged rant complaining about the lack of roleplay standards

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    An unhinged rant complaining about the lack of roleplay standards

    First I want to open with something that gets thrown at me a lot. I am not against people who do not roleplay. If you want to just keep your head down and click on aliens, you do that. I'm not here to stop you from having your fun. Nor am I necessarily against the memers. People who act like idiots, crack jokes, and make pop culture references are surprisingly accurate representations of enlisted men, so you do you. I mean, I can't really complain about you guys, I'm one of you. This is largely aimed at people who ignore the fact that this has roleplay at all, or actively rail against it. You might disagree and want change, but at this point in time, this is a roleplaying game according to the server rules. And a lot of people come here for that experience.

    This is the culmination of a lot of stuff, but the one that made me write this is medbay storage. It is broken into nearly every round, especially on lowpop. It is never addressed, because there are very rarely MPs on in my timezone, and if there are, they don't mind. To break the window and then steal supplies are two minor crimes, which they can (and usually do) elect to ignore. If it was an isolated incident, it would be an IC issue. But it's consistent, and widespread across a large section of the community, which to my eyes, makes it an OOC issue that requires either mechanical enforcement (eg, making the windows unbreakable like req's) or admin intervention. In a round today, I tried a little experiment. I told all marines over general, and medics again over medical channel, that all requests from medbay for supplies would be accepted. I assigned a doctor to medical storage to ensure that all requests were filled promptly, so they couldn't whip out the old "BUT I NEED MUH INJECTOR BEFORE FIRST DROP". Marines still shotgunned the window, in front of the doctor. They would rather not roleplay than type one line asking permission from someone who was standing by to facilitate their requests. As a response, we closed chemistry. And again, there were no MPs. That's when I realised that without MPs, there's no roleplay standards, because roleplay is only really enforced by marine law. So I spent the entire round distributing drugs until an MP rocked up, and then I was arrested.

    But it's not just that. The blatant disregard for orders in favour of ungaing. Disassembling parts of requisitions because you're mad at the RO. Destroying squad req. Deploying without essential gear, or wearing the shorts from the gym.

    I mean, let's be real, most marine law violations are pretty LRP, and considering that (until recently) we had no antags besides the xenos, they've always basically existed as a soft way for roleplay standards to be enforced ICly. What marine is going to risk brig time and possibly dishonourable discharge just so they can get their piece of equipment (stuff stolen from engineering, stuff stolen from medbay, disassembling various parts of the ship for metal, etc.) slightly faster? Breaking a window for example doesn't merit admin intervention, but it's not something you can just do if we want to accept that this is a roleplaying game. Hence, the existence of MPs.

    So what can be done? More people should play MP. I honestly have no answer. Give us Warhammer 40K style commissars attached to every squad with the power of summary execution. If there are no MPs, staff should step in, or spawn themselves in as an MP while also attending to admin duties? I dislike the idea of heavy handed administrative interactions for RP violations, but it'd work. Keep an eye on player behaviour shipside and address the issues directly? Make medbay windows unbreakable, req walls unable to be disassembled, all that? I don't like that either, because there are situations where breaking the windows or walls might be beneficial, like during a boarding or if there's nobody staffing those areas.

    Honestly, I just want some clarification, and perhaps a bit more staff involvement. Are we a TDM, or a roleplaying game? If we're TDM, then all my complaints evaporate. It doesn't matter, all that matters is powergaming in order to win, in which case breaking into places to get the best equipment makes perfect sense. If we're a roleplaying game, do the things I've described above, when done frequently, constitute a violation of roleplay rules? Or, are they as I have found out so many times when ahelping them, IC issues? If that's an IC issue that does not constitute a breach of the roleplay standards, what does? Are MPs still fit for purpose? And before the usual argument of "it's both" comes out, that doesn't address the issue. The game can be both, but saying that it's both doesn't address the issue of roleplay standards. It's either a roleplaying game, or it is not. Saying it is both a TDM and a roleplaying game means that you accept that there must be roleplay standards.

    I'm not advocating for HRP or even MRP. I'm advocating for LRP, which does not mean NO roleplay. It means LOW roleplay. Behave like a sane person who wants to keep their job. Sane people who want to keep their job don't violate the law instead of waiting. They don't damage their workplace because they're salty. They don't do half the shit we do. And yes, this might result in a few of the dumber funny things we do getting axed, but I think it would create a better gameplay environment.

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    Senior Member Pigeon's Avatar
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    No one wants to be the fun police and stick you in jail for 1 hour becuase some bald doc didn’t want to give injectors.

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    I think as much as people like to shit on the mods, shit on LRP players with dumb gimicks, and shit on CM itself, one of the things people don't shit on is the people who see stuff like this and then don't ahelp it. I know I don't bother much since it tends to just get marked as IC and ignored but I feel like I should make a bit more effort anyway, after all mods/admins aren't omniscient.

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    Member lanche's Avatar
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    If RP was your main focus back in the day, you should quit before you fall into the loop of ''trying to recreate what I once used to love doing'' otherwise you'll never actually stop playing and end up like grimreaper or any other omega drained cm player.

    CM is a freeware TDM game, not the MRP 80's action movie chatroom you remember.

    and yeah, it sucks
    nothing more than an alt account

    ''Another tax payer funded Delta safari''

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    Senior Member Critilius's Avatar
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    There is no clear cut answer what is and what is not LRP,HRP etc. It mostly depends on which Mods/Admins are online that will decide your RP is LRP,HRP or that will get you noted banned etc

    From what I realized from recent rounds Current RP standards are as follows
    =======================
    Be an Actual monkey[Actual Chimp] that runs REQ=HRP
    Act Like Monkey=LRP
    QUEEN FOB=MRP

    Everything else you do is up the admins discretion. You can create a fun role play scenario but if a mod/Admin does not agree with your ideas RIP
    Aden Cooper


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    Quote Originally Posted by lanche View Post

    CM is a freeware TDM game, not the MRP 80's action movie chatroom you remember.
    I'm not necessarily against us being a Tdm game. I hope we don't go that way, but if that's what the game is, fine. What I want is a change to support one side of the other. If we're a TDM game, then just give marines access to stuff they always get instead of having them break into places. If we're an RP server, enforce some standards or change mechanics to limit behavior that violates the standards.

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    Community Manager Frozentsbgg's Avatar
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    Agree with everything discussed in your post.

    Staff should intervene when there are no MPs able too, preferably from an IC perspective like you suggested. This will be more strongly enforced going forward.
    The idea was floated that we might strengthen key parts of the ship as well to stem the UNGA tide. Mechanical enforcement is only good if it's actually applied, and in the meantime with feature freeze, it's a staff issue.

    Staff coverage is also a big issue here, when there's only a mod on and they're playing, it's a lot easier to just mark something as IC and move onto bigger issues. That shouldn't be the case, but it's a reality we face. APPLY FOR MOD :^)


    To address a few other things;

    Quote Originally Posted by lanche View Post
    If RP was your main focus back in the day, you should quit before you fall into the loop of ''trying to recreate what I once used to love doing'' otherwise you'll never actually stop playing and end up like grimreaper or any other omega drained cm player.

    CM is a freeware TDM game, not the MRP 80's action movie chatroom you remember.

    and yeah, it sucks
    This attitude is half the problem. I don't think OP is trying to recreate the RP that they once had. CM doesn't just have to be a 'TDM' game. RP is a positive feedback loop, and the vast majority of RP comes from the little things like Req line interactions and combat banter. If you talk to people and make an effort, you usually find that people respond positively, it's only a question of building it up and consistently doing it over a number of rounds.

    The people who come for TDM don't need to do that, but this server /is/ MRP. and we're going to strive to reach that level, even if sometimes we fall short.

    Quote Originally Posted by Critilius View Post
    There is no clear cut answer what is and what is not LRP,HRP etc. It mostly depends on which Mods/Admins are online that will decide your RP is LRP,HRP or that will get you noted banned etc

    From what I realized from recent rounds Current RP standards are as follows
    =======================
    Be an Actual monkey[Actual Chimp] that runs REQ=HRP
    Act Like Monkey=LRP
    QUEEN FOB=MRP

    Everything else you do is up the admins discretion. You can create a fun role play scenario but if a mod/Admin does not agree with your ideas RIP
    I've got no issues with events sometimes being a bit more zainy and outside the box.
    If you're creating a fun role-play scenario it /shouldn't/ be being shut down by mods/admins. If you notice it's the same staffer shutting down the ideas, reach out and report it. It's not cool and it's against the current staff guidelines.
    If you're getting noted and banned for it, that's even worse.

    Player freedom and agency while still preserving round flow is the aim of the game.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Me_Bigsnail's Avatar
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    obligatory comment of: no one cares about your rp standards in a tdm game
    Vibing as: Dismas Hind.

    THE BOIS (And gals)
    https://pastebin.com/DHCmg4nM

    Shoutouts to Manezinho for the pixelart

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    Whitelisted Captain LilPenpusher's Avatar
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    Agree with basically everything in this post. Particularly with the "try to appease the NRP unga tide, still get fucked on regardless" bit.
    Lance Corporal Misti Rockwell, Squad Medic (Alpha/Bravo)


    Captain Misti Rockwell, USS Yokosuka, 2nd Division, 2nd Battlegroup, 3rd Fleet.


  10. #10
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    Not saying you are wrong in general, but in some specific cases you are wrong in my opinion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Urytion View Post
    "BUT I NEED MUH INJECTOR BEFORE FIRST DROP"
    You just said it's a low pop round, that means every marine is suddenly 3 times as much important. Dieing because you could not get your autoinjectors will be YOUR fault as a marine if you didn't take it and denying them directly affects their survivability. Since one marine complained, I will assume most marines had the same problem. So you are okay pretty much giving most marines 30-50% less HP overall because they can't access a vital gameplay mechanic due to low-pop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Urytion View Post
    Marines still shotgunned the window, in front of the doctor
    This is bad and they should be arrested. How ever when they break squad req window I 100% agree with them. Those vendors adds ZERO roleplay, the layout is annoying, SLs either dump everything or asks engis to remove windows and hack it as NOBODY can be bothered to distribute anything and I do see that as a bug/gameplay failure.

    95% of time req does their job and gives out what people want, I almost never see any issue there ever. MAYBE at lowpop sometimes.

    But in my 1+ year of playing I could count on one hand the time SLs gave out attachments in squad req. It is pointless, annoying for ALL parties, adds zero roleplay. Marine bumping to each other, that room is claustrophobic small, rails are at a horrible place and it's generally feel line a nausance. I rather spend my time with no attachments. If it's not vended, f*ck it. Can't be bothered to ask there.



    Quote Originally Posted by Urytion View Post
    stuff stolen from engineering, stuff stolen from medbay
    Lower engineering doors on the right are ineccessable for squad engis, they can no longer "steal" the mats. Too bad most of them figured out by now that they can just print metal sheets from the autolathes having the same effect. Also the fact that they need to steal mats just shows it is a gameplay issue and they should have more mats available as engi feels extremely uderwhelming to play due to this. Why can't they make cades cost half and have half HP? It would break the stalemate cade-hugging, would be more interesting to xeno and marines also.

    As for medbay, and medvendor. When pretty much all rounds they take the medvendor and other supplies from medbay, that just tells me that there is a game-design problem here. They are not taking it for shits and giggles, but because they are vital. If devs/mappers don't recognize this, I do think it's their fault. If you are familiar with the word "desire path https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path" you know that we have this exact problem here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Urytion View Post
    all that matters is powergaming in order to win
    Sadly since marine weapons do f*ck all damage to xenos and they are extremely unsatisfying to shoot, this is a self fulfilling prophecy. They need to double or triple weapon damage and do the same with larva respawn rates. Until than, power gaming it is.

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