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Thread: Unknown - Rule 11

  1. #1
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    Unknown - Rule 11

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    sg2002

    Date of Incident
    March 3, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Unknown

    Accused Character Name
    Andrew Smith and Tori Wetsel

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    13:20

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 11

    Description of the incident:
    We had a baldie XO round. I was one of the SOs, so I concentrated on the two squads I was overwatching and kinda refrained from interfering with him, since I knew it's going to be a shitshow. We also had 2 POs, but nobody was on the Alamo. At some point one PO finally got on. Then XO announced evac and PO immediately asked if he should launch. I missed the evac announcement. I also thought PO was shipside and answered "YES". PO thought that he is to evac. Then immediately I ordered him to go back down again, since I never expected an evac and thought that we may hold for at least a little bit longer. Luckily marines held the LZ and evac was successful in the end.

    Just after that Delta LCPL Gerald Blanchard barged in and started insulting me, since he apparently believed that people died due to being left on the ground, which was not true. In front of of CMP LCDR. Andrew Smith and MP SSGT Tori Wetsel. I immediately ordered his arrest for DASO. Tori Wetsel instead told him "Go pick up that cliboard and bring it to me" and then told me he NJPd that DASO.

    Then I got arrested instead for manslaughter. After bringing me to brig, hijack and red alert Tori Wetsel let me go without completely stripping and brigging me.

    While my arrest was wrongful it was not illegal in my opinion, but here's what was:
    1. You should not mess with officer ordered arrests for DASO. The crime was blatant, Gerald Blanchard was never cuffed and removed from CIC, never processed and the joke NJP was a bullshit way to let him escape responsibility. CMP who was present failed to supervise and prevent that MP from ignoring the law.
    2. Only the CMP can release prisoners on Red alert. MP did it without consulting with the CMP. I was a legitimate threat to the marines since manslaughter is a serious enough charge and nothing was really stopping me from magdumping that MP, since I had a legitimate grievance against him.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Gerald Blanchard points to Roman 'Fire' Kacew
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Retarded."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "WHAT?"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Please"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "RETARDED."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "What did I DO LAPL?"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Rrelax"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT YOU DID"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "What did I DO?"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "FUCKING CRO MAGNON"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "WHAT?"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Fellas"
    built."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "ABSOLUTE BUFFOON"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "FIGHT ME"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Please break it up"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "LIKE, FUCKING EVERYONE DIED"
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew points to Gerald Blanchard
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "We are on the same team"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "BECAUSE OF YOUR ANTICS"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "LETS SEEE"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "WOOOOOOO"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "XO the hell"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "COMMANDER."
    CDR. Vance Wible shouts, "FIGHT!!!!"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "Arrest him for DASO."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "What is this"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "THE HELL"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Fine."
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew points to Gerald Blanchard
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "What"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "What is going on"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "I havent seen a rage cage in a long time"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Just know you're an absolute peice of shit."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Actually"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "Are you breaking Protocol?"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Arrest this man for manslaughter."
    Robert 'Spades' Calafax points to Vance Wible
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Don't encourage marines to fight"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Gerald"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "SSGT Wessel LCPL Blanchard is to be arrested for DASO."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "We cannpt"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "Well to be honest."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Arrest command staff for decisions"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "..."
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "That was a bit of a dumb joke."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "That are not"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Inded"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Like streight up warcrimes"
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew points to Gerald Blanchard
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "To preform in the middle of the Operation."
    Gerald Blanchard puts the marine delta medic radio headset into the USCM medic satchel.
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "MPs I'm waiting."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "It is a warcrime."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Well"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Also yeah sorry you need to get dasoed"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith asks, "SO are you sure?"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Fair."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "Yes."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "I'll make a report when this is over"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Then go ahead MP"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "MP's."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Read him his rights"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "I already violated the geneva convention 3 times, im in massive profit"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Just know he got countless men killed."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "We know"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "I didn't kill anyone LCPL."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "Evac suceeded."
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "Id like to request the Arrest of the SO for NoD."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "You know you did."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "Alamo got down in time."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "It is a minot"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "But marine law is marine law"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Medic"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "I beleive only XO can order that SEA"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "SUCCESS MY ASS, YOU LAUNCHED IT WITH LESS THAN 4 PEOPLE ON IT YOU DIMWITTED FUKING CUCK."
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "He made a joke."
    Tori Wetsel points to the table
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "During an operation."
    Tori Wetsel has grabbed Gerald Blanchard passively!
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Go pick up that cliboard and bring it to me"
    Tori Wetsel points to the table
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "A"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "That caused a miscommunication."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "XO"
    Gerald Blanchard has thrown the pen.
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "Delta can you please tell LCPL Blanchard that evac was sucessful."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew [Delta (SO)] says, "Delta can you please tell LCPL Blanchard that evac was sucessful."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Okay"
    CDR. Vance Wible asks, "Yes?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Good job"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "On you njp"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "That caused the OP evac to go sideways."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith asks, "Do you believe your SO Neglected his duty?"
    Tori Wetsel buckles in!
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "CMP."
    Tori Wetsel unbuckled !
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Not really"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "As the SEA states"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "Why is he not being arrested?"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "He should be"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Minor crime"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "You cant order arrests."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "I njped"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "So you do not believe?"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "I can."
    Tori Wetsel buckles in!
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "That jokes during an operation."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "You cant."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "He cana ctually"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "Over comms."
    Tori Wetsel unbuckled !
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Its the XO and above."
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "Is not NoD?"
    PFC. Franklin Ramis says, "Roman"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Do i need"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "I mean"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Uhhhhhhhhhhh"
    PFC. Franklin Ramis whispers, "I'd suggest leaving the CIC, now"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard asks, "To get the Provost Marshall?"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "That caused the death of countless marines?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Yeah sure"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Yeah do go whatever"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "They are hommies"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Actually"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "I will call him, i know his mom on account of me having intercourse with her daily."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Please don't"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard claps.
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "LCDR I don't see any NJPs done here."
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Nah im fuckin around."
    ENS. Nick Hector says, "We're losing the Groundside and you're joking about launching the DS or not"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "This is only my advisement."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "I get a pay cut"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "The SO can indeed order an arrest"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Everytime they get called"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "But that is vey corrupt."
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Uh"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "SO"
    Franklin Ramis has thrown the marine military police radio headset.
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Alright, let me pull up marine law"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "I make pennes now"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "I have to sleep"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Why the fuck did you say "LAUNCH DS" as a joke"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Yeah"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "In a disposles shoot"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "It was not a joke a CDR."
    ENS. Nick Hector asks, "Not?"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "We needed to keep the DS going."
    ENS. Nick Hector asks, "WHAT?"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "You said it in a fucking command channel"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "We were already slow on the launches."
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "So your saying."
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "I did XO."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "THAT WASN'T A JOKE"
    ENS. Nick Hector says, "So"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "You didnt realise."
    ENS. Nick Hector says, "You're telling me"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "That the marines had one cade line?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Who said it"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "Thats manslaughter at best."
    ENS. Nick Hector asks, "You wanted the DS to launched?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Okay"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "And needed the DS held on the ground?"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "I realized. And we evacuated sucessfully after that."
    ENS. Nick Hector asks, "On intent?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "Do we need to fax to arrest an SO?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "Or can we just do it?"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Uhhhh"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "The XO can order it"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, ""Killing someone with out malicious intent""
    PFC. Franklin Ramis says, "You can do it, they're not the active commander"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Yeah just arrest him"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax asks, "So your fraining ignorance?"
    PFC. Franklin Ramis says, "Nor a captain"
    LCPL. Gerald Blanchard says, "I dont see any malicious intent, but i do see killing.,"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "COpy sir"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "What for?"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "SO"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "Who did I kill?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "You are under arrest"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "You are under arrest for NoD"
    CDR. Vance Wible says, "Major dereliction of duty and shit"
    Tori Wetsel tries to put the handcuffs on Roman 'Fire' Kacew.
    ENS. Nick Hector says, "Ask marines"
    Tori Wetsel has grabbed Roman 'Fire' Kacew passively!
    Tori Wetsel has grabbed Roman 'Fire' Kacew aggressively!
    ENS. Nick Hector says, "They know who they lost better than you"
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Process him"
    Tori Wetsel starts loading Roman 'Fire' Kacew onto their back.
    Tori Wetsel loads Roman 'Fire' Kacew onto their back.
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "What is it again?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "NOD?"
    SGM. Robert 'Spades' Calafax says, "I do not blame the PO."
    LCDR. Andrew Smith says, "Neglect of duty"

    Dropship Alert

    Unscheduled dropship departure detected from operational area. Hijack likely. Shutting down autopilot.
    You are trying to remove Roman 'Fire' Kacew's Roman 'Fire' Kacew's ID Card (Staff Officer).
    ARES v3.2

    SSGT. Tori Wetsel asks, "Should I continue to process the SO?"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel [Command (MP)] asks, "Should I continue to process the SO?"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "MP I'm requesting to fax for my appeal."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Fam wait tell you are arrested"
    Tori Wetsel talks into the marine command radio headset
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Can you code red this"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel [Command (MP)] says, "Can you code red this"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew asks, "Are you saying I"m not arrested now MP?"
    Tori Wetsel talks into the marine command radio headset
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "So that I can let the SO go"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel [Command (MP)] says, "So that I can let the SO go"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Charged"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Whatever"
    The Jurisdictional Automated System pings, "Criminal Roman 'Fire' Kacew verified."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Okay"
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "We got bigger issures"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "No we don't."
    SSGT. Tori Wetsel says, "Yeah we do"
    LT. Roman 'Fire' Kacew says, "I'm a dangerous criminal and all."

    How you would punish the accused:
    Two week MP jobban for Wetsel, three day CMP jobban for Smith.

  2. #2
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    While my arrest was wrongful it was not illegal in my opinion, but here's what was:
    1. You should not mess with officer ordered arrests for DASO. The crime was blatant, Gerald Blanchard was never cuffed and removed from CIC, never processed and the joke NJP was a bullshit way to let him escape responsibility. CMP who was present failed to supervise and prevent that MP from ignoring the law.
    2. Only the CMP can release prisoners on Red alert. MP did it without consulting with the CMP. I was a legitimate threat to the marines since manslaughter is a serious enough charge and nothing was really stopping me from magdumping that MP, since I had a legitimate grievance against him. [/I][/INDENT]


    1. An officer ordered arrest is not any different in sentencing, so I was within my rights to NJP the crime, I should have brought him to brig and then NJPed him, but it is common to not do that. (I have seen no MPs do that, and 2 mps off the top of my head NOT do it). I didn't have to cuff him as he didn't resist arrest. I didn't remove him because I had seen a marine in CIC previously who had stated that the XO said it was fine "He said we could do whatever the fuck we wanted" (when asked why he wasn't deploying) and the XO backed this up by not doing anything. Due to his precedent I let the medic stay, as no-one ordered him to be booted out. (CMP is safe because I ignored no laws)

    2. Yeah, your are right, I did mess up there. However, you were not a "legitmate threat" as you were arrested for neglect of duty, so the worst thing you could do was nothing. I didn't think you would magdump me becuase it would be a jerk move, improper escalation, and you didn't really have a legit grievance to shoot me (I was just following orders) and guess what, you didn't. Also when I told CMP what I had done they said I did a good job, so I got approval afterwards.

  3. #3
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    sorry I didn't get the quote thing right

  4. #4
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    1. ML on the officer requested arrest pretty clearly says that you MUST arrest the person when ordered. We both agree that you arrested that person. But you didn't follow the proper arrest procedure, committing Failure to Follow Procedure minor crime.

    Then there's the question of whether a basic MP can NJP for officer requested arrests. NJP section of the ML gives you that power for minor crimes. But the Officer Requested Arrests sections says that only the CMP and the Commander has that power in those cases. So I presume it overrules the general NJP section. This is the second ML violation.

    2. You, the policeman, just sidelined the law when it was basically in my favor and sided with my opponent. Of course I'd have a legit grievance against you. If MPs didn't have OOC protection and I didn't think I have a legitimate ground to report you, I would have 100% murdered you. So releasing me was bad RP.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    1. ML on the officer requested arrest pretty clearly says that you MUST arrest the person when ordered. We both agree that you arrested that person. But you didn't follow the proper arrest procedure, committing Failure to Follow Procedure minor crime.

    Then there's the question of whether a basic MP can NJP for officer requested arrests. NJP section of the ML gives you that power for minor crimes. But the Officer Requested Arrests sections says that only the CMP and the Commander has that power in those cases. So I presume it overrules the general NJP section. This is the second ML violation.

    2. You, the policeman, just sidelined the law when it was basically in my favor and sided with my opponent. Of course I'd have a legit grievance against you. If MPs didn't have OOC protection and I didn't think I have a legitimate ground to report you, I would have 100% murdered you. So releasing me was bad RP.
    I never saw that clause, dang, yeah I guess I'm guilty, I feel that a 3 week jobban is too harsh.

  6. #6
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    Offending CKEYs: Albireo1 (Andrew Smith), Anclandor (Tori Wetsel)

    As a reminder, we do not do timed jobbans. Jobbans are permanent until appeal.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    1. ML on the officer requested arrest pretty clearly says that you MUST arrest the person when ordered. We both agree that you arrested that person. But you didn't follow the proper arrest procedure, committing Failure to Follow Procedure minor crime.

    Then there's the question of whether a basic MP can NJP for officer requested arrests. NJP section of the ML gives you that power for minor crimes. But the Officer Requested Arrests sections says that only the CMP and the Commander has that power in those cases. So I presume it overrules the general NJP section. This is the second ML violation.

    2. You, the policeman, just sidelined the law when it was basically in my favor and sided with my opponent. Of course I'd have a legit grievance against you. If MPs didn't have OOC protection and I didn't think I have a legitimate ground to report you, I would have 100% murdered you. So releasing me was bad RP.
    So I have just looked over the ML again, and have decided that I should actually still argue my case.

    "Inform the Suspect he is under arrest.
    Take down the Suspect if he resists and securely restrain him.
    Move the Suspect to the Brig.
    Inform the Suspect of his Charges before the brig timer starts.
    Inform the Suspect he may file an appeal should he wish so."

    Well it is true that I did break arrest procedure, when assigning my NJP, as I said early it is common to skip those steps if you issue an NJP (sprit of the law).

    "The CMP or Commander may order an arrested marine to get an NJP instead of a brig timer for Minor crimes. "

    It never actually says that MPs CAN'T assign an NJP.

    We are either going spirit of the law or letter, so either way, I only committed one ML breach (which I still admit to, my bad, though it would have been nice of you to point it out in round, so that I could have looked at the officer ordered request section and seen my error.)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anclandor View Post
    It never actually says that MPs CAN'T assign an NJP.
    I confirmed with Nanu that MPs can in fact NJP without arresting in general. The way I understand is that you can either arrest or assign NJP without arresting. For officer requested arrests you MUST arrest. Then aCO or CMP can change the punishment to a NJP after the arrest has been processed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anclandor View Post
    it would have been nice of you to point it out in round, so that I could have looked at the officer ordered request section and seen my error.
    Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  9. #9
    Senior Admin & Whitelist Overseer Fortelian's Avatar
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    Ok, I'll pull logs for this.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    I confirmed with Nanu that MPs can in fact NJP without arresting in general. The way I understand is that you can either arrest or assign NJP without arresting. For officer requested arrests you MUST arrest. Then aCO or CMP can change the punishment to a NJP after the arrest has been processed.
    I talked to Nanu and he said that issue an NJP doesn't count as an arrest, so yeah. I guess I should have read ML harder. Sorry about messing up your round.

    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte
    The truth will set you free. (or at least free of a delta medic that's insulting you)

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