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Thread: dialtone - Rule 4.

  1. #1
    Junior Member PaladinThicc's Avatar
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    dialtone - Rule 4.

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    PaladinThicc

    Date of Incident
    March 3, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Calum "Rocky" McDonald

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    dialtone

    Accused Character Name
    Shayla Linton

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    7pm

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 4.

    Description of the incident:
    So what basically happened was I and a researcher wanted to banter a bit and go round around to do a little "trolling" where we just run without IDs and such to take act randomly around people. Little did I know the research, Jean Corbeau was actually an agent. I had already been chased by the CMP already at this point, I never knew why as not wearing an ID and covering your face was a loophole in the SOP. So I carried on as if it was a nice day, did some illegal shit which no one ever found out about, and met back up with Jean. At this point, I still did not know he was an agent.

    This is where things get more complicated, we ran past an MP and find another further in front of us, I think ow it's fine we'll just go around them. Jean tranq'd the one behind us, then tried to hit the one in front of us, instead, this hit me and I said in looc "lol" or something like that. The arresting MP who was Shayla cuffed me and said that I was "being charged with murder" when in reality I did nothing. What proceeded was me being charged with assault and resisting arrest. To those two I find completely random when in reality I was caught in the cross fire and never hit anyone in the incident. I at this point ahelped and had it answered the Tmod Bathoovybood. What proceeded was a back and forth about the incident, him gathering both sides and I just serve my sentence (with a few funny incidents like two doctors posing as lawyers trying to help me, which was interesting) and taking this piss for around 25 minutes.

    I then get free gather my things and see Connor in a cell and wonder, he tried to get me out, I owe him something but don't think much about it. I pass by briefing noticing the power is out and the doors all have their circuits out. I first decide "hey lets try and bust into brig" get to work, fuck up a bit and decide "Nah it ain't worth it, let's fix up the place and get going" as soon that thought rushed into my head Shayla saw me again tried to arrest me, but no words were said at all, they saw me in the darkroom (power was still out) and fired their taser first, not a single word. I panicked and didn't want to get an illegal arrest, so I tackled them, they fall, I run.

    Mid-chase I became an agent and ordered a badass kit so at least I have MP comms and know what's being talked about. I got hit by a taser moments later and put the box in my bag using E. What happened after was me drawing my pistol accidentally because I mashed it. (the pistol had its safety on, the logs will show that) and I tried to tackle them again so I escape (I had the pistol in my hand like a goof). This lead to another arrest that never followed the procedure at all. I was cuffed, told I was arrested and was told my charges were: NoD, Assault with a deadly weapon (which was never fired at all), Damage to Government Property, and Resisting arrest.

    After this I ghosted because I couldn't be arsed dealing with either having to wait 30 minutes or write up an appeal for an arrest from someone without any knowledge.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Logs

    How you would punish the accused:
    3 Hour Jobban from MP, just so they read Marine law and the arrest procedure. It could be a warning, whats important is the stuff previously stated that they learn Marine Law and the arrest procedure.

  2. #2
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    This happended on march 3rd and you failed to file a complaint within 48 hrs, by that notion this should be dismissed per report rules, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:[INDENT][I] So what basically happened was I and a researcher wanted to banter a bit and go round around to do a little "trolling"
    To sum this up him and his little pal were NoD the entire round.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    where we just run without IDs and such to take act randomly around people


    Acting crazy and zany and not responding to our IC request to ID justified the CMP in ordering your arrest(s) that round.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    I had already been chased by the CMP already at this point


    Not relevent or any of my fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    did some illegal shit which no one ever found out about


    Wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:


    The arresting MP who was Shayla cuffed me and said that I was "being charged with murder"


    You were never charged with murder as I clarified on radio to the CMP what exactly it was you were up to prior to your arrest ( a slew of charges)

    You got angry in looc and I said appeal, you never appealed.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    What proceeded was me being charged with assault and resisting arrest


    Assaulting the CMP and resisting her arrest that round when she tried to stop you, again nothing to do with me.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    I at this point ahelped and had it answered the Tmod Bathoovybood. What proceeded was a back and forth about the incident, him gathering both sides and I just serve my sentence (with a few funny incidents like two doctors posing as lawyers trying to help me, which was interesting) and taking this piss for around 25 minutes.



    Basically, it was resolved in server. Tadmin Bathoovy spoke to me and found me of no wrong doing, alot of what happended this round was on the basis of CMP's order of arrest.

    Excerpt from ML.

    "Officer Requested Arrests
    Should a Commissioned Officer order an arrest for a crime, MPs MUST arrest that person."



    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:

    I pass by briefing noticing the power is out and the doors all have their circuits out. I first decide "hey lets try and bust into brig"

    At this point CMP or the Warden reported a MT breaking into briefing command doors.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    as soon that thought rushed into my head Shayla saw me again tried to arrest me, but no words were said at all, they saw me in the darkroom (power was still out) and fired their taser first, not a single word.


    You had a record of being combative and have assaulted multiple MPs that round, asking you nicely to surrender was out the window since the entire round you ran away when anyone talked to you - or assaulted them.

    From ML.

    "Arresting a Suspect
    Inform the Suspect he is under arrest.
    Take down the Suspect if he resists and securely restrain him."


    The second you saw me you bolted it south to exit briefing, I wasn't going to stop and request you to stop running.

    Your intent was to flee, the taser was used to non-lethally stop you.

    I'd of given you the benefit of the doubt but since you'd been "trolling" the entire round, the CMP asked for the briefing menance to be arrested and you fled. That was a sign of resisting so I deployed tasers.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:[INDENT][I] I panicked and didn't want to get an illegal arrest, so I tackled them, they fall, I run.



    Because using force and resisting the MPs the first time ended so well.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:


    What happened after was me drawing my pistol accidentally because I mashed it. (the pistol had its safety on, the logs will show that) and I tried to tackle them again so I escape (I had the pistol in my hand like a goof).


    You never were close enough to tackle in Upper Engineer where I busted you, I nailed you twice with the taser - to my surprise a loaded gun was dropped when I took you down.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    This lead to another arrest that never followed the procedure at all.


    So what part of ML did I not follow?


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:
    This lead to another arrest that never followed the procedure at all. I was cuffed, told I was arrested and was told my charges


    Inform the Suspect he is under arrest.
    Take down the Suspect if he resists and securely restrain him.
    Move the Suspect to the Brig.
    Inform the Suspect of his Charges before the brig timer starts.
    Inform the Suspect he may file an appeal should he wish so.

    I followed the procedure, there was no violation here.

    Maybe you SSD'd before I told you could appeal for a second time, not my fault if that's the case.

    Are you trying to imply I should still ask you nicely to surrender when you're running away? If so please explain why'd you think that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Description of the incident:[INDENT][I] NoD, Assault with a deadly weapon (which was never fired at all), Damage to Government Property, and Resisting arrest.
    NoD - Failure to perform one’s role to an acceptable standard < -- In this case, sabotaging briefing's doors.

    Assault with a deadly weapon - You pulled and aimed a pistol at me, safety on or not. Hard to tell intent when you're looking down a barrel, you definetly weren't surrendering your gun or asking for it to be cleaned. Had you shot, I wouldn't of charged AWDW, I'd of charged attempt murder.

    "To threaten or use physical force against someone with ill intent and with a lethal weapon such as a sidearm, blade, or rifle but not attempting to murder them."

    DTGP - Breaking into Brig via briefing.

    Resisting Arrest - Running from the 'illegal arrest'.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post





    How you would punish the accused:
    3 Hour Jobban from MP, just so they read Marine law and the arrest procedure. It could be a warning, whats important is the stuff previously stated that they learn Marine Law and the arrest procedure.

    I know ML, exstensively.

    Everything I did that round, was on orders of the CMP or MW and I asked for clarification when booking multiple suspects and was approved.

    I spoke to the Tadmin and was cleared of any wrong doing.

    What appears to the be the basis of the complaint is someone who can't get to their way in the server so they - in bad faith file a complaint.

    You're implying the TAdmin is stupid or bad at his job if he's unable to resolve this MP complaint, it was resolved and he sided with the MPs.

    I'd suggest you withdraw the complaint and save yourself the headache, everything this round was justified - not sure if the admins will hear it since it's been... 5 days.

    My advice to you in the future is stop pretending to be an agent/stowaway when you aren't and then breaking ML law and calling foul, all of this is on you friend.

  3. #3
    Moderator silencer_pl's Avatar
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    I believe I was CMP this round, and it was a mess.

    There was plenty confusion stemming from the fact that Jean at least was switching IDs and Job Descriptions.

    I also spent a while with the mentioned mod here trying to work out what exactly happened, so my responses were a bit delayed. I was mostly coordinating the MPs and issuing permissions, while sorting things out at the brig.

    The sentencing mess related to this case was handed in game by the mod I believe.

    Anyway, I was knocked out by an Agent planer, whom I'm assuming was Jean with a different ID, who fed me pills to keep me knocked out for way longer than I normally would (while using my ID to make more fakes) and then fed me dvyolevne I believe to get me back out. The MPs suspected he did this and arrested him after the mentioned chase where they arrested the other researcher, the player who made this report.

    This also involved the two Doctors I believe to come in claiming to be lawyers, who were then ordered back to medbay and when MPs did not find them in said medbay ended with NOD charges, to which I agreed.

    When I got to the brig (at this point after a series of PMs from the mod), I released Jean (whom at that point I only wanted search and the search was inconclusive) and was informed the other researcher must have been the one who did it. I reduced the suggested sentence from attempted murder (on me, for the pill feeding) to assault and resisting arrest. If I remember right the researcher chose not to appeal, or at least I've never heard about this again.

    I ran into Jean again later, realizing he keeps switching IDs and ordered his arrest again, which is also around the time they ran into the other researcher I think. Anyway, brig was being actively sabotaged, he was noticed outside, it seemed warranted.

    Anyway, I did hear that he went SSD. I believe I was dealing with more mod PMs at that time to help the mod make out what the charges applied were and who ordered them.

    One of the issues here is that the player did not do a regular IC appeal to me either times and I honestly didn't even know there was any problem. The other is that apart from perhaps the NoD charge (which me and the mod worked out via PMs), the charges seemed to be correct.

    For what it's worth it didn't seem like any of the MPs were outstepping themselves this round from my perspective.

  4. #4
    Junior Member PaladinThicc's Avatar
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    Responding to @Silencer first (they didn't send 1000000 quotes that I won't be going over )

    I didn't send in an appeal because this was a total fuck up from the MPs end that couldn't be proven by someones judgement without logs. I saw the whole thing of being arrested the first time as complete bullshit. I got given resisting arrest and another charge (I'm still unaware of that other charge) when I was tranq'd on the ground just without an ID(which in SOP isn't stated, therefore a legal loophole).

    If I had to appeal that what could I write? I say "I was walking with a guy who pulled out a tranq gun, hit a MP and me and ran then I got cuffed." I had told you when you popped into brig with wilo "I got hit with ketamine" (which is what horse tranq is irl so I wanted to meme about it)" to basically say "yo, Idk why I'm here in the first place."

    Also Warden just seemed bald that round and I didn't put him in the report because he just seemed chill and was just caught in the crossfire trying to make sense of it.

    Now @Dialtone

    I was gonna make a response, but the wall of text made me give up.
    Lets see the logs and see from there because if it was an IC issue as you stated, Bathoovy would have told me so. So you're either lying on a report or missread something.
    You never followed the arrest procedure at all, and your first arest claiming "NOD and Resisting Arresting" (When I was tranq'd and just walking without an ID with no proof of the former at all). You failed to follow it again when I saw you run into brig chasing someone and saying "CMP and warden told me to check brig" brig was dark as shit, I passed by Cassandra prior and she told me to put on my ID which I did then entered brig where the second incident went down. I never got to explain what I was doing because you had try to tase me and I wasn't gonna cooperate with you if after that.
    Lets see what the logs say and sort it from there

    Also please just don't do a total break down and just do short snippets, easier on the eyes and just is less teddious.
    ROK, Local dancer Main
    Calum McDonald To standard Ungas

    PaladinThicc#0478 if you wanna DM me on discord, way more responsive there

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    I didn't send in an appeal because this was a total fuck up from the MPs end
    "Right to appeal
    An appeal is the process in which a case is reviewed by a higher authority. Appeals function as a process for error correction"

    So you're saying you didn't appeal in game so you could in bad faith file a complaint when it could of been solved icly? (Which it was.)

    This alone looks malicious, you didn't appeal so you could tangle all this up in a vengeful complaint because you didn't get me bwoinked in game?

    All issues were IC and in terms of this round that happended literally ages ago, I was justified in everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    that couldn't be proven by someones judgement without logs
    So you're saying the admins couldn't pull logs in the game, they can't do their jobs and have to pull the logs after the fact?

    Matter of the fact is the admin did their job, sided with the MPs and you didn't like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    I saw the whole thing of being arrested the first time as complete bullshit
    Then why didn't you appeal.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    I got given resisting arrest and another charge (I'm still unaware of that other charge)

    Assault on the CMP.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    when I was tranq'd on the ground just without an ID(which in SOP isn't stated, therefore a legal loophole).
    Appeal.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    If I had to appeal that what could I write?
    Nothing because you had no grounds for an appeal.

    Hence the admin help.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    "I was walking with a guy who pulled out a tranq gun, hit a MP and me and ran then I got cuffed."

    "I was running around the ship with no ID, the CMP stopped me and I resisted her stop and assaulted her and other mps then MPs chased me down later on and I got tranq'd by the agent now I'm illegally arrested because the agent helped the MPs indirectly by tranqing me now I'm serving 25 minutes for assault and resisting arrest."

    Fixed that for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    to basically say "yo, Idk why I'm here in the first place."
    Your charges were explained to you ICly, if you ICly didn't understand that's your own choice but the words were clear and we followed procedure.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post


    Now @Dialtone

    I was gonna make a response, but the wall of text made me give up.

    In reality you couldn't refute any of my points, at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post

    Lets see the logs and see from there because if it was an IC issue as you stated, Bathoovy would have told me so.
    He didn't tell you anything because it was handled.

    The fact was it was an IC issue, you had the tools to appeal or call the PM had you thought we not done our job but you went freak out meltdown mode instead.



    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    So you're either lying on a report.
    Wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    missread something.
    Maybe the problem here is you didn't like that the admin didn't punish me so you held back from appealing ICly then complained in bad faith here about it?


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    You never followed the arrest procedure at all
    I did, logs will back that up.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    and your first arest claiming "NOD and Resisting Arresting"
    Assault, resisting.

    Folks the funny thing here is even he can't remember the round correctly so how can we expect him to be credible and acting in good faith when he has the round as twisted as this?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    (When I was tranq'd and just walking without an ID with no proof of the former at all).
    Arrest was ordered on the two no-ID clowns (you and corbeau), Officer ordered arrest.

    You're probably reading this wishing you appealed that round.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    You failed to follow it again when I saw you run into brig chasing someone and saying "CMP and warden told me to check brig"
    So... I followed someone into the brig, didn't arrest them - and therefore failed to follow arrest procedures?

    Does this click for you at all or am I missing something Paladin.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    I did then entered brig where the second incident went down.
    Wrong, our incident took place outside briefing west command doors where you fucked with the door and you were ordered to be arrested by CMP.

    Attachment 1694

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinThicc View Post
    I never got to explain what I was doing because you had try to tase me and I wasn't gonna cooperate with you if after that.

    Already addressed in a previous reply.

    Overall the complaint should be null and void per rule 8 of reports, your intent with this complaint is malicious with the way you've been responding and twisting the story when in reality the logs will tell a different one.

    Hope you play better after this is all said and done.

  6. #6
    Junior Member PaladinThicc's Avatar
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    I made a mistake with regards to stating brig instead of briefing (don't know how to edit posts if I can And I did state briefing repeatedly in the original post) due to Real life stuff.

    My guy, I don't mean to be an ass, but trying to sound smug and fight. I made a report because in my perspective you played poorly and griefed me this round. Wait for the logs, and see from there ok dude?
    ROK, Local dancer Main
    Calum McDonald To standard Ungas

    PaladinThicc#0478 if you wanna DM me on discord, way more responsive there

  7. #7
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    The logs will probably never be pulled because (it's past 48hrs of the incident.)

    9. Reports should not be made if a staff member had already investigated the issue and determined it was not a rule break. The decision is final, and there is no second guessing or "Monday morning quarterbacking."

    Sorry pal.

  8. #8
    Manager Doctorprobe69's Avatar
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    I’m closing the thread, I’ll be determining whether I want the logs pulled or not.
    Staff History

    Mentor 01, 03, 2020 - 04, 11, 2020
    Trial Moderator 04, 11, 2020 - 04, 23, 2020
    Moderator 04, 23, 2020 - 08, 31, 2020
    Senior Moderator 08, 31,2020 - 10, 08, 2020
    Trial Administrator 10, 08, 2020 - 11, 06, 2020
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    Discord Staff 04, 29, 2020 - Present
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  9. #9
    Moderator BatHoovyDood's Avatar
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    Alright, I wasn't able to comment on the original report before it got closed, but Probe has asked me to come to give my two cents anyway. Still not sure whether this will be investigated or not, in the end, it's his call. I was called in on the original arrest of Calum after the ahelp had sat for a bit (no-one was in a hurry to jump on an ML ahelp, as those are always the most complex and difficult). After speaking to Calum and some of the MP staff including Linton, and in the end, ruled that while the original arrest seemed to push the boundaries of what should have been applied, I chalked it up to bad communication and recommended Calum appeal, which he chose not to do, saying (I'm paraphrasing hard here, feel free to correct me) essentially that he didn't want to dignify an arrest he thought was so unjust.

    For the second arrest of the doctors, which I believe was Anderson and Jean, I received an ahelp from Anderson, and Jean was released. I couldn't handle it at the same time and asked for another mod to come help, and I was under the impression that someone had, but when I later checked in with Anderson he said he hadn't. On that charge of NOD, I personally felt that the MPs were stretching the definition, but I can't say I know exactly what Nanu meant writing it. While I suggested to the MW that it was overzealous, this is not a report of them, and I did not put the hammer down and force them to remove the charges, as I didn't feel certain enough in my take on the meaning of NOD.

    Finally, is the second arrest of Calum, the largest mess of them all, and as I understand it the reason for this report. As I understand it, Calum was for some reason made an agent while being chased by an MP, and accidentally pulled out a weapon. While I was talking about this with Calum, he (again, paraphrasing, I'm not sure if you can still comment but feel free to message me on discord if I am stating something incorrectly) suggested that Linton was retaliating for Calums response on a previous player report. This, along with the repeated incredibly long brig sentences was my reasoning for suggesting that Calum make a player report so that it could be properly ruled on the forums.
    - Squad Leader Charles 'Boston' Ellis (and overconfident CO)

    (Probably already dead)






  10. #10
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    For those reading, McDonald was told by the admin the only way this could be dealt with - had he felt he was wronged, treated wrongly in the arrest or otherwise - was to appeal.


    Mcdonald refused, and filed an OOC complaint for an IC issue.


    The doctors while brought up multiple times in this thread, have no significane or value to the complaint at hand - nor are they the ones complaining.

    They - in relevance to this case, are red herrings.



    Quote Originally Posted by BatHoovyDood View Post

    Finally, is the second arrest of Calum, the largest mess of them all, and as I understand it the reason for this report.
    Had you read the report in full, he's complaining I failed to follow Arrest procedures both times.


    Quote Originally Posted by BatHoovyDood View Post
    A
    and accidentally pulled out a weapon.
    His gun was holstered in his pistol gun belt, which once stripped - showed it was empty.

    You don't accidentally draw a gun in a chase, maybe if his intent was IE?





    Quote Originally Posted by BatHoovyDood View Post
    While I was talking about this with Calum, he (again, paraphrasing, I'm not sure if you can still comment but feel free to message me on discord if I am stating something incorrectly) suggested that Linton was retaliating for Calums response on a previous player report.
    This is an absolute stretch of the truth.

    As Paladin sees he has no footing, nor ground for this complaint instead purveys this false, maliciously made lie claiming I'm targetting him OOCly?

    I'd like to see him provide detailed evidence to back up his statements.

    Contray to what you may think, the people I've interacted with either postively or negatively on this community are people I hold no ill will or grudges against.

    If you wronged me and I reported you, argued with you - what have you, it doesn't matter.

    I don't hold anything against anyone - after all, this is just a video game and at the end of the day I goto work, live my life and occasionally play CM and SS13.

    Anyone who claims otherwise, or that I hunt people down, or whatever verbal diherea nonsense claims like this - are acting maliciously, without merit and in bad faith.


    The matter of the fact, is this.

    https://cm-ss13.com/forums/showthrea...ll=1#post69067

    Per this reply, I detailed having grounds to go after someone 'sabotaging briefing doors.' by the CMP herself.

    It just so happended this joke was the culprit, I had no information suggesting it was McDonald/Paladin icly or OOCLY at the time until I pulled on scene.


    Quote Originally Posted by BatHoovyDood View Post
    This, along with the repeated incredibly long brig sentences was my reasoning for suggesting that Calum make a player report so that it could be properly ruled on the forums.

    Simple, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

    If this is an issue over validity of charges ? IC appeal - I was justified, again in everything I did that round alot of what I did was vetted through my IC command (MW, CMP).

    But it isn't, this keeps getting twisted into something it isn't.

    First it's arrest procedure, now it's about OOC vengeance?

    I think we've entertained this circus long enough.

    The plain and short is

    - The report was submitted too late.
    - An admin ruled for him to appeal ICly on one of his arrests but he still put a complaint in.
    - Paladin's story continues to change and his credibility lowers per story change.
    - CMP colloborated the same information as me.

    Paladinthicc not only put this report in spite, but now makes false statements albeit not here but to a T-Admin that he can't even back up.

    His actions are childish, immature and for the most part wasted my time, and the staff's to investigate something that could of been handled entirely ICly.

    Had he appealed.

    An admin led PM would of decided if any wrong doing was done, by the testimony of the MPs and players this round, none if any occured.

    The admins, DoctorProbe and other staff members here are volunteers to the server they aren't getting paid to dispute this report.

    Had it any merit I wouldn't contest it but since you clearly have trouble following the report rules, make false statements with no evidence and are at this point wasting our time, why should this report even be considered - still?

    This report should in my opinion, closed since Paladinthicc failed to follow report rules on report submission dates.

    We're going around in circles and I'm sure Doctor and the staff who have to handle this aren't impressed.

    Get your story straight and stop wasting our time is my advice to you, Paladin.

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