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View Poll Results: What do you think about hive memory

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  • I like it

    4 7.84%
  • I don't like it

    29 56.86%
  • I think it could use some changes

    6 11.76%
  • I think marines should also have hive memory

    12 23.53%
  • I don't know or care enough about it to form an opinion

    5 9.80%
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Thread: Hive memory's a dumb idea, here's why from a beno main

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Hive memory's a dumb idea, here's why from a beno main

    for those unaware, hive memory was a often talked about and finally test implemented system where xenos that die as an upgraded form can respawn as a slightly less upgraded xeno, or AS A T3 XENO, CAN RESPAWN AS T2 WITH THE ONLY PENALTY BEING A SMALL PART OF YOUR EFFORT BEING LOST

    first of all, and most importantly in my opinion: it removes the sting of death, and rewards dying players. The entire point predicated on CM's xenos is that they are powerful fighters that slowly get stronger as they live, culminating in xenos that can singlehandedly fuck shit up, the counter balance to this is having your entire progress erased and having to start from scratch keeping every xeno in check, making death matter, making it important to prioritise survival over frags (which fits pretty well within the concept of the xenomorph and hive). With hive memory, it does erase some of your progress, but not all of it, allowing death to not matter as much, as it delays your ability to play, and removes some of the time you spent getting to where you are (T2-T3 is really not as bad as it may seem, only a delay of usually 10-20 minutes at most). The tension of fighting a dangerous well armed foe, with the potential to die at any moment and lose up to two hours of progress in an instant is what gives playing xeno its edge, but with hive memory death isn't as much of a punishment, thus some of the stakes are lowered. I don't speak for everyone nor do I claim to, but I would bet that playing xeno would lose a large amount of appeal once players realize how meaningless becoming invested in staying alive and getting more powerful is when it can be pretty easily reclaimed. Where before death was a harsh slap, coming usually at the hands of dodgeable explosives or getting yourself caught in concentrated lanes of fire, now you are rewarded inadvertatly for dying with a small setback in comparison to the complete progress wipe there was before, which is in general a terrible design decision when there is semi perma death and you're supposed to care about your character.

    For marines, killing high level xenos is supposed to be a huge thing, it cripples the hive, takes out one of their major resources, stopped a perfect killing machine, and in a minute of fighting wipes out up to 2 hours of someone waiting and slowly becoming stronger, it's a rush, and hunting T3s and killing them is one of the most rewarding experiences as a marine because you know how much of a difference they make on the battle field and how far you've set your enemy back by killing them, but with hive memory, an elder lurker can come back(with the same number, almost as if to taunt whoever killed them that it was pointless) as young and with a relatively short period of waiting, can get right back to where they were, meaning that the big high tier frags that might swing a fight around becomes dulled as you realize its still a set back but not nearly as much as it was before.

    I'm not sure about the statistics of how it works within the hive tier system, but imagine someone joining the round as a xeno for the first time that round and trying to play their hand at a T2 or T3 but getting blocked because someone who failed by dying gets it before them, if tier spots are taken up or blocked due to hive memory, that would reduce the amount of chances players who haven't fucked up get to play as a higher caste because the player that has already had the chance to be an ultra urist mc robust died and lost it still got in due to hive memory, imagine how salty that would make the other player if they knew that they can't become T2 because the dumb young rav suicide charged the enemy and just respawned as a lurker to do it again.

    Honestly, I think I'd be fine if hive memory was restricted to T1 maturity level, because it wouldn't actively fuck with anyone else in the hive's ability to play the fun castes, but it would not be too big of a reward for dying to be worth caring about for most people.



    Sorry for the shit grammar, let me know what you think about the hive memory change and let me know if I got some part of it wrong and misunderstood

  2. #2
    Whitelisted Captain FGRSentinel's Avatar
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    Just a correction: as far as I know, you only lose one maturation level and apparently get about 50% of the progress to the next level when you die, unless you were a young Xeno in which case you come back as a Mature of the tier below it.
    Retired CO Councilor (Winter 2019-Spring 2020, Winter 2020-Spring 2021)

    Goddard Pearsall, the Pilot that (almost) always has Souto

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  3. #3
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    there's also a hive mutation which makes it seventy five percent, making death not matter even a little, wew

  4. #4
    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    i just afk until i hit mature of whatever tier I am so that way, if i do somehow die, i can just get my caste back

    i'm not worried about being unable to get larva when multiburst is a thing
    Chance Warden

    Duke the Synthetic, Karr'Thesh the Yautja
    ex-synth councilman and retired moderator

  5. #5
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    >be ancient lurker
    >die
    >respawn as elder lurker

    should explain how bad is this mechanic in a nutshell

  6. #6
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    imagine being a Elder Crusher, and somehow collosally fucking up by being surrounded by 5 guys with shotguns

    then coming back as a Mature Crusher

    SADAR is already the only answer to decent T3 players, now its the ONLY answer, and we don't get our Specs back (and the ASRS system doesn't give spec kits anymore)

    i fucking knew this would happen; i should have expected it. whenever marines get even a single decent buff, xenos get a huge buff slapped onto them in return, and this is the result.

    we still have not fixed DEFCON being hot trash due to the difficulty of getting objectives, objectives in of itself not giving enough percentage, recovering xeno corpses not giving enough DEFCON points, ASRS not being fully tuned yet and still requiring some fixing, and we STILL have problems with mutators ON TOP of all this yet Hive Memory is being added

    and don't say "its a test"; thats what the devs said about Mutators before they put it in for real 3 days later

  7. #7
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    I admit, I didn't experience this test much, but when you think about it... It sucks in more ways than one.

    For instance, while it makes death less punishing and encourages xenos to get more active without fear of losing vital assets.. it is LESS PUNISHING. Xenos should have to EARN their power, as they work hard to earn their victories. You shouldn't get a free pass for being stupid and throwing your life away. Marines sure don't.

    I also fear this might make it more of a struggle for T1s to become anything other than a T1. The whole "Dibs" problem is bad enough as is, but the fact that someone can call dibs on something, then just keep respawning as it at will and deny others a chance to grow into something more than a puny T1 sounds shitty...

    I can see where they are going with this: they want to make it easier for hives to hold together instead of crumble the second several of their T3s die in succession during a marine invasion. But here is the thing: If you want to survive, you have to be smart. Survival of the fittest, after all! Queens need to organize their xenos and xenos need to listen.

    All this'll result in is more xenos ramboing about without a care because HEY, they can just magic back into a powerful form and get back to being cool, queen's orders be damned. And not like queens are gonna be able to do much about it without causing backlash. How often you even see them use the devolve ability even before?

  8. #8
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    Bad change if it's done in a vaccum. Marines are already heavily encouraged to rush (despite "metarushing" being discouraged) by mutators making xeno aging more powerful than ever, now if a Hive reaches an certain power level you won't even be able to weaken them much by killing them off. It will push marines right into the "push immediately or die" mentality.

    And anyone who says "marines shouldn't play to win, they should play for fun" is out of touch. No matter what you think most marines do want to win, and the majority is going to direct how marines play in general. So mark my words, marines will rush harder than ever if Hive memory becomes a thing without a correponding change to how xeno aging works.

    There was a suggestion in another thread about making xeno stats static, so aging only affects mutators (and with more interesting mutators instead of plain stat buffs). I think Hive Memory could work if static xeno stats is implemented, but not as it is with how strongly xenos scale with time.

  9. #9
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    It will have the same effect as defibb does on marines. Xenos will be careless and massively aggressive because they know they can just get revived with almost no penalty (besides a small wait just like defibb). It changes how people play the game.

    Whats really going to happen is t3 coming back over and over will make xenos win 90% of matches and they will nerf the shit out of xenos. I already called this in the faceless horde thread. There is no other way to balance this. You cannot fight 20 t3 as marines. Its just not possible.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    Whats really going to happen is t3 coming back over and over will make xenos win 90% of matches and they will nerf the shit out of xenos. I already called this in the faceless horde thread. There is no other way to balance this. You cannot fight 20 t3 as marines. Its just not possible.
    Pretty much. If they implement Hive memory as it is the only way to balance it is to nerf xenos in other areas (essentially making xenos more swarmy and less monstrous).

    ... And after that there's a good chance Hive memory will be reverted while the nerfs stay. Seen it happen too many times in games...

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