GradusNL - Ban Appeal (Job/Role Ban)

[GradusNL]

Ban Appeal

Byond ID?

GradusNL

Character Name?

Elliott Parker

Type of Ban?

Job/Role Ban

Admin who banned you (if known)

grimreaperx15

Total Ban Duration

Permanent

Remaining Duration

Permanent

What other servers do you play on?

Hippiestation

Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?

Permbanned from TG for repeatedly escalating badly and banned from Yogstation for insulting an admin after he said I couldn't kill people as traitor so I could order traitor gear from cargo.

Reason for Ban

Improper Escalation, has a previous 1 day ban for Improper Escalation, so this will be a 1 day ban as well. Shot an Engineer for disobeying orders when the MPs didn't respond. Rather rude in PMs.

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):

-

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc)

I only know for certain that I got a temporary ban, but I am assuming that a ban for SL got automatically applied too as this was the case with my previous ban and the RO and CT roles.

I do not have any logs of the first part of the round but I can tell what happened.

I was the Bravo SL and my squad was assigned FOB duty, as soon as we arrived my engineer (Aribel 'Souless' Berknbosh) ran off talking about some fax. As Aribel was essential to my squad's objective I ran after her. She went to the Warden's office and was working on a sexual harrasement fax. I took the fax from her and told her to go build defenses at LZ1, she ignored these orders repeatedly. At this point I called for MP's on the command channel but got no response so I aimed my gun at her and told her to get to work, she ignored that too.

When she finally did do her job she started unsecuring barricades and moving them further away from the FOB proper, leaving many flanks open if anyone was manning the barricades she was building/moving, so I told her to go weld the vents as this was just confirmed.




She (unsuprisingly) ignored these orders too. Again I called for a MP and got no response.



At this point I was entirely sick of her shit, so I told her to get on the Alamo, also telling her she was going to the brig for desertion and I was going to shoot her if she tried to run.
She did try and run, ignoring another warning from me, so I shot her once in the chest, at which point she finally went back inside the Alamo. (No, I didn't have any cuffs.)







The lethal force rule says that you need to have a "legitimate, explainable roleplay reason" in order to apply lethal force. I would say that a consistently disobedient engineer trying to run away from my arrest attempt when there are no MP's is a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason.

As for the rather rude part, you pushed me for a quick response then complained about it not explaining things adequately. Don't be surprised about getting a sarcastic response to that.

[Grimreaperx15]

No job ban was applied in this situation. I will edit this post with your notes when I get back to my computer.

Notes:

[Omicega]

You wouldn't gun down your own engineer just because they're being insubordinate. I understand that you got frustrated but it's not exactly a good reason to light someone up.

Like Grim said, anyway, you haven't had a jobban applied, by the looks of it. I'm guessing that renders this appeal more or less dead in the water?

[GradusNL]

You wouldn't gun down your own engineer just because they're being insubordinate. I understand that you got frustrated but it's not exactly a good reason to light someone up.

Like Grim said, anyway, you haven't had a jobban applied, by the looks of it. I'm guessing that renders this appeal more or less dead in the water?

Well, I didn't shoot her for being insubordinate, I shot her for running out of the shuttle when I was arresting her with multiple warnings.
But yes, it is dead in the water. I assumed that a job ban was applied as in my previous appeal it was called standard policy to always apply a job ban in addition to the punishment no matter the circumstances.

[Vitoras]

I think it's too soon to lift this. -1

[Mizari]

No Job ban was applied for this and as Omi said, you wouldn't gun down your own engineer for disobeying orders, that ability lies with the CO. With that being said, the ban itself if for 24 hours which should be avoided when appealing bans so yeah, be careful in future.

[Ventyas]

Posting here as a Character Witness because I feel it more like a Staff/player report than a Ban Appeal.

I was the XO and aCO for 99% of the round before Bryce got out of cryo 5 minutes before we killed the last xeno. This whole thing happened a bit because of me and the engi did just follow my own orders, which are higher than yours, following the USCM standard ranking system. I requested the FOB to be done on a different pattern than the usual ones to permit our forces to move West, North and South more safely to let the other squads have good interaction which each other and reducing at the same time the chances of backstab.

I'll be honest, I saw the beginning of the problem when you started to request the desertion status on her, however as the Operation was pretty hot, I had no time to calm down the situation due to CIC personnel shortage. However, this engineer was totally right in what she was doing, as it was coming from the top, and so could deny your orders, if those were against mine. Moreover, we did not know at any time (or I did not had ANY comms on ANY channel) that the xenos were using the vents and so welding the vent was meta, which is probably why the engineer didn't done it.

Moreover, to be honest, I was gonna request an arrest against you for Manslaughter/Murder because of the way you killed her, I was on the overwatch console when it happened but I had other thing to do.

Lastly, Desertion wasn't the appropriate charge, only Insub or maybe if we extrapolate, Neglect of duty can apply. Remember that sedition is "Refusing to carry out the duties essential to one�s post or abandoning post unauthorized, without intent to return. (Retreating from the planet when the FOB is breached is not Desertion, refusing to return when ordered is)." She did in fact build a FOB, not the one you requested but still. She didn't flee to avoid combat, just to get medical help, which doesn't need an authorization.

Still, good luck with your appeal.

Commander Renaud Chatillon

[Imperator Titan]

Too soon, you need to shape up. You already have been banned for the same stuff.

-1

[ThesoldierLLJK]

There was no jobban and the ban itself was for 24 hours and it's already expired, so this appeal is kinda moot.

[GradusNL]

This whole thing happened a bit because of me and the engi did just follow my own orders, which are higher than yours, following the USCM standard ranking system. I requested the FOB to be done on a different pattern than the usual ones to permit our forces to move West, North and South more safely to let the other squads have good interaction which each other and reducing at the same time the chances of backstab.

She didn't inform me about these orders that were presumably give on the engi channel. If she told me the XO gave her orders to build like that I would've confirmed it with you and let her do it.

Moreover, we did not know at any time (or I did not had ANY comms on ANY channel) that the xenos were using the vents and so welding the vent was meta, which is probably why the engineer didn't done it.

I got ambushed by a runner coming out a vent and the Charlie aSL said that 'they' were coming out of the vents on the command channel, but this is a he said she said situation.

Moreover, to be honest, I was gonna request an arrest against you for Manslaughter/Murder because of the way you killed her, I was on the overwatch console when it happened but I had other thing to do.

I didn't kill her. I shot her a single time at which point she went back into the Alamo.

She did in fact build a FOB, not the one you requested but still. She didn't flee to avoid combat, just to get medical help, which doesn't need an authorization.

I was arresting her for not building a FOB on initial arrival, as was our squad objective, instead running off into the station to write a fax and ignoring my orders repeatedly. By doing this she clearly (IMO) qualifies for the 'refusing to carry out the duties essential to one�s post' part of desertion. She appears to have had a justification for not following my last order much later in the round but she didn't tell me this nor was I told this by you.

Your witness statement contains multiple incorrect facts. You assume I was aware of your order, which I wasn't. You assume that she disobeyed me because I gave her a meta order, which it wasn't. You think I killed her, which I didn't. I shot her once after multiple warnings when she tried to run from an arrest for a capital crime. Lastly, you think I made the arrest purely based on the fact that she didn't weld the vents when I ordered her to, I didn't.

I'm not saying you were wrong to post this statement Chatillon, you were there for part of the situation and did offer valuable information, but you weren't there for the entire situation and made several incorrect assumptions.

---

Too soon, you need to shape up. You already have been banned for the same stuff.

First off, just because I have been banned for the same thing before doesn't necessarily mean that this ban is valid by default as you seem to imply. You do not respond to anything said in my appeal, which makes it seem like you only looked at the ban reason and my notes. Please tell me if I am wrong.

Secondly, 'shape up'? Even if you say that this ban is valid there is a good amount of 'shaping up' between the situations when you compare between the situation in this ban and my previous. In my previous ban I got banned for unloading a magazine on the RO without any indication of actual hostility. (I did tell him to stop doing what he was doing but that doesn't count, I realise that.)
In this situation I shot my subordinate a single time after a multitude of warnings during an escape attempt for a crime (that she IMO committed) that could warrant execution.
Just compare those two situations and tell me there is no 'shaping up' between those situations.

You appear to just have skimmed the appeal and instead of writing a meaningful reason to deny this appeal you just took the most basic information in this appeal and used it as justification to deny it. If this is the case, you should really 'shape up' yourself.