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Thread: MP complaint thread

  1. #31
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    I’m powergamming for knowing ML…

  2. #32
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    Hey, at least they made attachment vendors accessible to all marines so jarheads won't get arrested for hacking vendors! I wish they did the same thing for medical vendors.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulferion View Post
    You are not making any sense. I never said you can't prepare. All the supplies in your prep are meant for you and you can take as many of those as you want. You can even take the medivendor provided you ask for it.

    The medivendor is not originaly intended for you as a marine. So when you are breaking a law to gain an unintended advantage that could be concidered powergaming. You don't own the vendor and you have no inherent right to it, the medbay staff does. If you want it ask them. It's the same as with req for example. You don't break into req and go steal shit, you wait in line and ask the RO or CTs for it.

    Bringing a medivendor to alamo/APC/FOB is an unintended advantage and powergaming? Really dawg?

    This is your brain on ML.

  4. #34
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    So to the people reading and/or potentially want to reply to this thread I am going to share what I believe is the core problem of MP players or rather the big divide with MPs and the rest of the Marine force, which is demonstrated in this discussion and player reports. I'll try to be brief:

    1. It is not about following the ML its how you do it. For example, you can either a. Arrest said marine and kill him for the entire round for 10-15 minutes or RP your way with NJP. Both are technically legal depending on context. You can commit 3 minor crimes and still get NJPed for all of them. And that is still legal. MPs may disagree but ML never gave a limit on how many minor crimes you can NJP, and it is to MPs discretion. Then MPs give an excuse with things like "I dont think thats how its applied" against clear writings. If you disagree go ask Nanu to rewrite the wordings. If its plain and clear dont twist it. Thats usually the issue.

    2. Following ML is morally superior to marines. Mindset issue refer to 4 for more. No matter what, following ML seem to fit into the contextual mindset of an average MP player. I am following ML therefore I am good. You broke ML, You saved a marine because of it. But ML is good, you broke it, therefore you are bad.

    3. (Some)People play the role as though it is a Morality Washing Machine. Also another Mindset issue. Doesnt matter if you are right as an MP, you have tools to ease rounds a bit to make things a bit more fun as long as they dont toe the line of Capital Crimes and several Major Crimes. That's why I am oft skeptical when MP players say following ML is RP when they dont a. Bother to RP with brigged people and b. Dont even TRY to RP with NJPs. You apply punishment to rulebreaker, and have washed yourself with morality goodness, good job. You are morally superior.

    4. MPs are of one world, Marines another. The average MP player has little game situation awareness and it really screws them hard, while the average marine player has poor ability to argue via ML. This key crucial mindset difference sets them apart and for some reason makes one difficult to understand the other. Refer to this discussion, its:

    a. WHY CANT YOU FOLLOW RULES?

    vs

    b. WHY CANT YOU STOP BEING GRIFERS?

    I am going to say here that...both are correct. MPs have 0 situational game awareness on how valuable people are and have 0 compassion on people they punish, it is as though they genuinely believe that is a bad person. On the other hand, MP players expect the average marine player to know ML despite forgetting the fact that if they ever wanted to they would've played MP or XO/CO.

    MPs have very bad situational judgement.

    Also not saying you shouldnt arrest.

    5. MPs are never wrong and are always the good guys. I can sense this perception a lot, I can tell you....no they can be wrong. It just happens, I dont mind them being wrong honestly cause everyone gets a bald moment no matter what role you get. It just happens. But the bad thing is they can be wrong and they expect you to be 100% correct. I see a number of mistakes MPs took that could get them into OOC problem but no one bats an eye. Marine breaks law, OH NO YOU CANT DO THIS YOU CANT DO THAT. Absolutely hypocritical if you ask me

    6. MPs dont grief with ML. Also wrong, and I can show you:

    //showthrea...Rule-4-Rule-11
    //showthrea...and-Marine-Law
    //showthrea...ssibly-rule-10

    This is only the surface, I can tell you there are instances where MPs just want to be utter pricks only to be stopped by CMPs. I even witnessed an MP discussing on comms about how to arrest the RO because the RO refused them guns. This was a real situation I asked in the Vancleave CO app.

    7. MPs are trustworthy. Absolutely not, and that makes things worse. What's worse are other MPs sticking up for these bad MPs, and this is the big thing why MPs in general are hated except for trusted few who were known to toe lines on Bad MPs. If Normal marines, medics and doctors can spot out and correct absolutely bad players, why dont MPs?

    8. MPs know everything to a situation. Wrong, and for good reasons: They dont get robust investigative tools. Sometimes MPs are absolute crap at investigating but even then, they cant investigate for crap. So most of the time it has to circle up to ahelps to resolve issues. The most they can do are scan for fingerprints, whether or not they actually do is another issue.

    But I hardly see MPs go in, ask around check for witnesses, etc. They go in they asked "Who did this?" A marine says "I saw him do it", then they just go YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FREEZE. Never checked witnesses on either parties.

    9. MPs can escalate issues. This is very true and one of the other main big core issue with MPs. You dont have to escalate issues to tie in COs for incompetence that happened shipside. The man is macromanaging all sides, that's why there is an MP department. Out of nowhere he gets warrant for arrest for incompetence that sometimes are the MPs fault un-necessarily.

    10. MPs...do not innovate. No one pointed this out surprisingly. You have Xenos and Marine players literally thinking of ways to better win and prepare the rounds, same as doctors and engies. LITERALLY NO MPS THINK OF BETTER WAYS TO ARREST AND SUBDUE PEOPLE. After failed arrest they OOCly whine complain and cry and ahelp despite it all being an IC issue. There is nothing about setting up macros, setting a 2 by 2 partner, trapping MTs for attempting jailbreak of another like...bro you KNOW they will jailbreak another dude...set a trap.

    For example, a lot of MPs break SOP on arrest by literally not announcing Arrests. You cant just walk up and announce arrest for fear of people running away and hide before nabbing them. No one thinks that "ML never said you should say it in person, just say it in the radio once." NO ONE...NO ONE THINKS LIKE THIS. THEY JUST THINK OF WAYS TO LEGALLY ARREST PEOPLE, that's why people think MP players are legalised griefers.

    Like no one, before the Flashbang thing got heavilty tied to SOP, taught of carrying a flashbang while running to the person they wanna arrest. You dont have to throw the flashbang, just carry it, prime it, run to him. Flashbang will get him. NO ONE THINKS LIKE THIS.

    And that is why MPs are being made fun of as MP brains.

    11. There are just situations that MPs just...cant be lenient. Unfortunately this is true, if you break too many MLs its just not ICly possible for them to let you go without being crucified by staff. You gotta make it easy for them.

  5. #35
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    Oh yea I forgot this another crucial thing:

    12. MPs cant take criticisms. Something bad happens they ALMOST ALWAYS blame others. If medbay screws up the average medbay players gotta plan, rethink medbay management, reflect and think of other ways to do better. FOB screws up, read up guides and rethink designs of the FOB to be effective.

    Riots, brig screwup, etc no MPs ever sitdown and think how to manage a riot better with RIOT GEAR and how to better investigate situations or improve law and order. Most of the arguments is:

    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong
    You're wrong

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    It is not about following the ML its how you do it. For example, you can either a. Arrest said marine and kill him for the entire round for 10-15 minutes or RP your way with NJP. Both are technically legal depending on context. You can commit 3 minor crimes and still get NJPed for all of them. And that is still legal. MPs may disagree but ML never gave a limit on how many minor crimes you can NJP, and it is to MPs discretion. Then MPs give an excuse with things like "I dont think thats how its applied" against clear writings. If you disagree go ask Nanu to rewrite the wordings. If its plain and clear dont twist it. Thats usually the issue.
    I do agree with this. In fact i argued a lot with some MP mains about this exact issue. MPs need to learn to take the context of any given situation into consideration when deciding how to enforce ML. I generally think NJPs should be prefered whenever applicable unless said marine is being a toxic ass about it. The NJPs should also be more creative, i hate seeing NJPs that are something like 5 pushups (you might as well ignore it completely). Instead make it tied to the crime commited. NJP for DASO? Apologize. NJP for breaking a window? Clean up the mess you made.

    On the other hand marines need to learn to accept the NJPs. If the MP offers you an NJP instead of a brig timer and you refuse it you are not giving them any other choice. They are OOCly forced to arrest you at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    Following ML is morally superior to marines. Mindset issue refer to 4 for more. No matter what, following ML seem to fit into the contextual mindset of an average MP player. I am following ML therefore I am good. You broke ML, You saved a marine because of it. But ML is good, you broke it, therefore you are bad.
    This is a sort of thing that goes beyond the game and we could debate about it all day. It's more dependent on how lawful or chaotic your character is if you exuse the DnD terms. Is a policeman who arrests an urchin for shoplifting food good or bad? This is not something to be "solved" as its hugely dependent on your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    (Some)People play the role as though it is a Morality Washing Machine. Also another Mindset issue. Doesnt matter if you are right as an MP, you have tools to ease rounds a bit to make things a bit more fun as long as they dont toe the line of Capital Crimes and several Major Crimes. That's why I am oft skeptical when MP players say following ML is RP when they dont a. Bother to RP with brigged people and b. Dont even TRY to RP with NJPs. You apply punishment to rulebreaker, and have washed yourself with morality goodness, good job. You are morally superior.
    The no RP NJPs i touched on in a previous statement so i will not repeat it here. What i will say however is that MP players have different reasons for playing MPs and liking the role. While it might be true that some feel morally superior for whatever reason it's not true for every MPs. I am sure there are some policemen in real life that feel morally superior for doing what they do but to most its just a job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs are of one world, Marines another. The average MP player has little game situation awareness and it really screws them hard, while the average marine player has poor ability to argue via ML. This key crucial mindset difference sets them apart and for some reason makes one difficult to understand the other. Refer to this discussion, its:

    a. WHY CANT YOU FOLLOW RULES?

    vs

    b. WHY CANT YOU STOP BEING GRIFERS?

    I am going to say here that...both are correct. MPs have 0 situational game awareness on how valuable people are and have 0 compassion on people they punish, it is as though they genuinely believe that is a bad person. On the other hand, MP players expect the average marine player to know ML despite forgetting the fact that if they ever wanted to they would've played MP or XO/CO.

    MPs have very bad situational judgement.

    Also not saying you shouldnt arrest.
    This is in my opinion the main problem. But its also what command is there for especially the CO. This is why i always pushed for COs to know ML. CO (and to an extent the XO) is in a perfect position to mediate this. You have both the situational awareness and ML knowledge to make the right call. Not to mention that as a WL role you should have the experience needed and be trusted to not abuse this power.

    Yet somehow the CO always winds up being considered "with the MPs" by marines and "protecting marines" by MPs. Neither should be the case however. I know that some COs perhaps don't take this as seriously but a CO is the neutral party there and thus able to make unbiased call.

    And there is also the issue of mindsets on both sides. On one hand marines treat ML as a useless thing that should be removed. They don't care about RP or the shipside roles and thus see MPs enforcing order as "griefers". On the other hand MPs tend to see only ML and nothing else. They don't care about the operation or anything else other than enforcing the ML. Both are wrong. Both the marines, MPs and all other deparments for that matter are on the same team and their goal is largely the same.

    Marines should start respecting ML more. You don't need to know the ML itself to be able to avoid most ML trouble. Ask yourself "if i did this in real life, would i get in trouble?" if the answer is yes then it's likely covered in ML so do it at your own risk and don't be supprised if you get punished for it.

    MPs should stop being overzealous with ML and stop treating it like a holy book. You are not a robot. Be human, think about the situation and try to be fair. Marines are not your enemies. You are a public servant, if what you do does no good or even causes more issues for the rest then its probably not worth it. When in doubt ask CMP/CO or ahelp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs are never wrong and are always the good guys. I can sense this perception a lot, I can tell you....no they can be wrong. It just happens, I dont mind them being wrong honestly cause everyone gets a bald moment no matter what role you get. It just happens. But the bad thing is they can be wrong and they expect you to be 100% correct. I see a number of mistakes MPs took that could get them into OOC problem but no one bats an eye. Marine breaks law, OH NO YOU CANT DO THIS YOU CANT DO THAT. Absolutely hypocritical if you ask me
    I agree that this is an issue. The issue here is that things like these should be dealt with by the CMP. There are clauses in ML that state what should happen if MPs break ML (NoD charges and such). The issue here is that a lot of CMPs (being MPs themselves ofc) stick with their subordinates and cover them. This is where either the CO or staff should step in and solve the issue. If they want to RP it, send a provost team (ask for one as CO) if not OOC solution is viable as well. For CO order arrests on the MP or even the CMP. Failure to follow such an order is OOC break for MPs since that would be willingly breaking ML. It could also be considered sedition and viable for BE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs are trustworthy. Absolutely not, and that makes things worse. What's worse are other MPs sticking up for these bad MPs, and this is the big thing why MPs in general are hated except for trusted few who were known to toe lines on Bad MPs. If Normal marines, medics and doctors can spot out and correct absolutely bad players, why dont MPs?
    As explained above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs know everything to a situation. Wrong, and for good reasons: They dont get robust investigative tools. Sometimes MPs are absolute crap at investigating but even then, they cant investigate for crap. So most of the time it has to circle up to ahelps to resolve issues. The most they can do are scan for fingerprints, whether or not they actually do is another issue.

    But I hardly see MPs go in, ask around check for witnesses, etc. They go in they asked "Who did this?" A marine says "I saw him do it", then they just go YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FREEZE. Never checked witnesses on either parties.
    This is why you have apeal procedure. Which also baffles me how few players (MP players included) actually understand apeals. If the apealing person find that there is no evidence for the supposed crime they can take the charge away. This can lead to releasing the marine right away when all charges are dropped. What a lot of MPs like to forget is that if indeed this happens the arresting MP is to be charged with NoD and serve jail time himself. Why this does not happen is the same reason as above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs can escalate issues. This is very true and one of the other main big core issue with MPs. You dont have to escalate issues to tie in COs for incompetence that happened shipside. The man is macromanaging all sides, that's why there is an MP department. Out of nowhere he gets warrant for arrest for incompetence that sometimes are the MPs fault un-necessarily.
    Absolutely true. This ties to what i already said. A lot of MPs see themselves as separate from the rest of the marines. To some arresting a CO is almost like an achievment. MPs need to realize that they are on the same team. By taking important roles away for slight breaches of ML they are compromising the entire operation. Of course sometimes this is completely the fault of the CO/XO/SL/Spec for breaking major laws and stuff like that. But arresting a SL for DASO when you could have NJP'd or faxing for COs arrest because he forgot to mention that MT can dismantle briefing chairs is not only serving no purpose but its hurting the entire marine side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    MPs...do not innovate. No one pointed this out surprisingly. You have Xenos and Marine players literally thinking of ways to better win and prepare the rounds, same as doctors and engies. LITERALLY NO MPS THINK OF BETTER WAYS TO ARREST AND SUBDUE PEOPLE. After failed arrest they OOCly whine complain and cry and ahelp despite it all being an IC issue. There is nothing about setting up macros, setting a 2 by 2 partner, trapping MTs for attempting jailbreak of another like...bro you KNOW they will jailbreak another dude...set a trap.

    For example, a lot of MPs break SOP on arrest by literally not announcing Arrests. You cant just walk up and announce arrest for fear of people running away and hide before nabbing them. No one thinks that "ML never said you should say it in person, just say it in the radio once." NO ONE...NO ONE THINKS LIKE THIS. THEY JUST THINK OF WAYS TO LEGALLY ARREST PEOPLE, that's why people think MP players are legalised griefers.

    Like no one, before the Flashbang thing got heavilty tied to SOP, taught of carrying a flashbang while running to the person they wanna arrest. You dont have to throw the flashbang, just carry it, prime it, run to him. Flashbang will get him. NO ONE THINKS LIKE THIS.

    And that is why MPs are being made fun of as MP brains.
    This is kind of a hard one as a lot of "creative" ways to capture people is prevented by the fact that you need to adhere to ML and SOP. Hell you can't even take off your armor unless CO changes SOP.

    As for the announing arrests i agree. It's not that hard to set a macro for Say "Freeze you are under arrest" and then just pointing and pressing a button. If you can't catch a person running away from you after that then thats a skill issue sadly.

    Lastly MPs that think of ways to legally arrest people are the MPs you can legit call griefers. This should be clamped on by staff. Why is it that i got in trouble for abusing ML loophole to release a marine yet when MPs do that to arrest someone its somehow fine. This again goes into the "use reason and don't just blindly follow ML like its a word of god" kind of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    There are just situations that MPs just...cant be lenient. Unfortunately this is true, if you break too many MLs its just not ICly possible for them to let you go without being crucified by staff. You gotta make it easy for them.
    Of course and that's absolutely alright. At the end of the day marines need to realize that ML is part of the game. Like it or not CM is not just about shooting xenos. If you break something major or if you are being an ass then you shouldn't be supprised to get shat on by MPs.

    ML is there to maintain order and as an IC way to stop LRP. It has some flaws sure but nothing is perfect. And its not like you get arrested for no reason at all. There are people that were never arrested as a marine without even reading ML. It's not that hard. And it's not like marines breaking ML don't realize that they are breaking it. When you do something you know is aginst ML then don't bitch about being arrested afterwards. Be a man and accept responsibility.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB1019 View Post
    Bringing a medivendor to alamo/APC/FOB is an unintended advantage and powergaming? Really dawg?

    This is your brain on ML.
    Look, nobody is stopping you from bringing it to the FOB IF YOU ASK FOR IT. The "getting a medivendor to the FOB" is not the problem here, the "stealing it to take it" is. As a PFC you have no right to that vendor unless its given to you by the CMO. It belongs to medbay.

    The game doesn't revolve solely around shooting xenos. If the CMO decides they want to build a hospital at the FOB and use the vendor there its their right. They are in charge of all medical procedures and all medicine on the ship. It's the same with any other chems or supplies. If the RO decides not to give out grenades then they don't give out grenades. That's not griefing thats their right as RO. Same way if the CMO decides not to give out say IA to anyone else other than doctors they may do so as well. The vendor falls behind the same rules.

    Like anyone else you are entitled to the supplies you spawn with and those you have access to (your prep) anything else is just an added bonus if the given department chooses to give it out.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulferion View Post
    This is in my opinion the main problem. But its also what command is there for especially the CO. This is why i always pushed for COs to know ML. CO (and to an extent the XO) is in a perfect position to mediate this. You have both the situational awareness and ML knowledge to make the right call. Not to mention that as a WL role you should have the experience needed and be trusted to not abuse this power.
    The alternative is you can get CMPs to help out with the issues. You are the 'Chief' Military Police afterall and have a degree of authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulferion View Post
    This is kind of a hard one as a lot of "creative" ways to capture people is prevented by the fact that you need to adhere to ML and SOP. Hell you can't even take off your armor unless CO changes SOP.
    Tru, that's where the challenge is and the fun. Its not impossible.

    Also the armour thing, go nag the devs or make an MR about it and the weapons buff if you have to.

    Its easier to implement these changes when MPs have established good Reputation and have proven themselves to be trustworthy not to screw over the whole game and the marines.

  9. #39
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    This is your brain on ML


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