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Thread: Staff Report - Clairion

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    Staff Report - Clairion

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Crimson Imperator
    Date of Incident
    July 14, 2021
    Your Character Name?
    Nicholas "Locust" Pershing
    Their BYOND Key
    Clairion
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    11:00 - 1:30 roughly
    Which Staff Protocols (https://cm-ss13.com/forums/showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    I believe that Clairion broke the 3rd rule in the staff code of conduct: Preserve the RP and enjoyment of the server.
    Description of the incident
    I have been working for a number of days on building a chute automation network which can toss items in a constant loop, in a 1 wide corridor. in a fashion which could block off an area or be used for roller coasters. There are also a number of applications for this, but clairion assumed wrongly that its only purpose was for making defense networks. It COULD be a defense network, but just as easily could be a cool roller coaster for the marines to ride on. I ahelped to ask clairion if it would be ok if I used a pipe schematic to fight xenos using a defense network setup. They assumed the prototype I was working on was me building a WORKING version to fight the xenos. I stated multiple times that it was only being built to test the pipe tetris, and was not a working final version. They gave me a note for “metagaming” because I was TESTING the tetris, trying to see if it was even possible. They also told me to “go test it on your own server”, in case you didn’t know, pipes are incredibly broken. Like designs I have made on live server do not work on test server and vice versa. The previous version I made I HAD made on a private server, it worked on the private server, and failed on the live one because pipes taking corners too fast randomly explode in random vectors. Another time I built a machine and it did not work because the trunks did not actually connect properly. They also strangely enough asked me to remove it, even though it was not even a working prototype. I was curious about if any other stairwells might work but I could not test them for fear of getting a ban, for building pipe tetris. I spent the rest of the round drinking because I could not do any of the stuff I wanted to do, under threat of ban. All I wanted to do was to build another version of the tetris to do prototyping, instead I got to sit there doing nothing because clairion said pipe automation was “metagaming”.
    Evidence
    Check the logs, but I have some pictures of the machines if you want to see what I have been making, just message me at Red Imperator #1507 on discord.
    How you would punish the accused
    If I were making a ruling on what should have been done, I would have just labelled it an IC issue. No one was being harmed and people were having a great time, such as Khalif ‘Mike’ Jordan, who was helping me construct it. By outlawing pipe automation I feel a significant part of the creativity of CM is effectively erased, not for the better either.

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    Hello,

    Khalif “Mike” Jordan here. I was assisting in the construction of this machine the other day. Which was being built in a rather unused part of the ship. I was of course blissfully unaware that there was anything happening with Staff at the time in regards to the construction. Just wanted to pipe in and say it was a rather fun thing to do, as I am sure anyone who plays shipside roles knows it can get a little boring from time to time. I don’t think stifling fun by calling it meta gaming especially when it’s not harming the enjoyment of most players on the server is something that should be encouraged.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Jamesthebond's Avatar
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    Logs will be posted within 24 - 48 hours
    Retired CSM Jonathon 'Ghost' Granger


    Discord Jonathongun#0219

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    Senior Member Jamesthebond's Avatar
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    Logs!

    Here are the logs!

    Accused Character Name
    Clairion

    Character Name
    Crimson Imperator / Nicholas "Locust" Pershing

    Useful information from the match prior

    Spoiler Spoiler:




    Mentions what he learned about the pipes last match

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Getting knives

    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Begins working on the "project"

    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Informing about the project

    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Pipe system made Below

    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Ahelps between Crimson Imperator & Clairion

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Let me know if there is anything missing!
    Last edited by Jamesthebond; 07-16-2021 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Adding pictures and editing logs
    Retired CSM Jonathon 'Ghost' Granger


    Discord Jonathongun#0219

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    Heya! I'm the staff member this report was on so I'll just get straight into the report and my actions/opinions.

    The first thing I want to make very clear is this.

    I spent the rest of the round drinking because I could not do any of the stuff I wanted to do, under threat of ban.
    I think the logs help illustrate this but I personally don't want to threaten people with bans nor do I think it would be appropriate for staff to do so. I never want to give people the impression that I'm threatening them with a ban over an issue. If I am gonna ban someone I will let them know, if I'm just warning them I will also let them know. I don't give people vague threats of bans and I really hope I didn't give you that impression because that was never my intention at all.



    Now to get into the actual project you were making.

    I don't actually know about the first 2 images of the pipe systems. Those might have been from another round or maybe somewhere on the ship where I didn't spot them but the entire thing was about the third pipe system, the one made at the south stairs.

    Now for the actual reason I slapped you with the metagaming warning. To me all signs pointed to this being a defence against xenos and that is just building defences pre hijack.
    There ended up being two arguments made as to why you think its not metagaming throughout the PM conversation.
    1.
    As for the bit about protection from MPs, that is both the ic and legit reason, don't assume the opposite when you have the power of hindsight and no data to base that statement on.
    You weren't in any conflict with the MPs, heck you were even showing them what you made at one point, and previously said you were building it to test and wanted to wait for "1-2 xenos to walk into it".

    2. You were testing the system. And I can actually totally believe that, but the fact that you're testing stuff doesn't make that stuff immune to the rules. Its still a defensive structure built pre hijack with the intent to use it against the xenos.


    And regarding:
    They also strangely enough asked me to remove it, even though it was not even a working prototype.
    At the time I was talking to you it was firing trash cans through the system. So it was in a working state or at least one where it can be made functional in a few seconds.


    I also want to add that disposal pipes aren't inherently bad and I'm not trying to stop you from building rollercoasters or other fun stuff with disposals. (I hope that opinion came through in my PM's to you) The main issue here is that you are building stuff to defend against xenos pre hijack with the intent to use them to defend against them during hijack, that's metagaming. And to me the intent to use them against the xenos seemed pretty clear.

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    A heavy note is a precursor to a ban. If I were to do something of “questionable” legality relating to pipes, such as test another tetris style, I would catch a ban.



    “ can I keep it on for like 1-2 min just for 1 or two xenos to run into it?” “
    The reason I think there is a disconnect between the statements is because I was asking if ANY form of weaponization of chutes was allowed, like that quote was clearly about the legality of them, not if I was allowed to use the one which did not work properly. It was about whether I was even allowed to run any design of them at all, even for a couple minutes, it was unrelated to the chute designs I was testing with. I later asked if any variation of a pipe machine would be legal, and you stated no, then later backpedaled to say you would need to ask the devs.

    [23:35:15]ADMIN: PM: Clairion/(Prime Runner (NO-866-N0))->Crimson Imperator/(Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing): Bruh..... you've been warned before for making disposals traps for xenos... no. Like you've been talked to about a lot about what you are and are not allowed to do with the pipes and stuff. You should know by now that you're not allowed to use them as weapons..

    I get what you're trying to do but its just something we dont allow. People shouldnt use disposals to kill xenos/other people.

    Look. As for if you're allowed to use disposals pipes to create a system to kill xenos with throwing knives that is a real edgecase that id need to ask devs.

    The issue I had was you were saying I would never be allowed to make disposal machines, and you took my question of the overall legality of it and twisted it to give me a serious warning. It also bothered me that you would make such an overarching statement, although you did retract some of it.



    I might need to give you a bit of an intro in pipe mechanics, but the chute design I made did not work. Collectively a schematic of that type would not fit, but that is beside the point. The key issue is there is no way that it could force the chutes to eject the knives. With a bin, it always ejects, hence why it was “running” throughout our discussions. If I loaded it with a couple knives, it would sit there for like 2 minutes and do nothing. The reason I brought up those old designs was because it is meant to show you that the only way to see if a tetris design would work is to field test it, and to find bugs. The design would not work to defend against xenos, hence my statement of its lack of function is true.


    As for “building defenses pre-hijack”, would anything which COULD have inherent defensive value be considered “metagaming”? Such as welding or bolting doors? Also, consider that it is impossible to “test” a pipe system without full scale mockups. To even be able to see what the machine will do you need the following, a chute, a trunk, and a full pipe construction. How exactly could I test something without it being considered “metagaming”? There was no weaponization of the pipe testing machine I was working with. The knives were not even used throughout the whole project, I never was allowed to pursue that because I could get banned. I stated I wished to test the design, in the field meaning on the live server.

    I never made a single statement of intent to use the machine I was working on to kill xenos. I stated I wanted to test the design I was working on multiple times. I do not see how me designing and building a prototype, to test the function of chutes, which was never militarized, can be misconstrued as “a defensive grid”. I never made a statement where I said the testbed’s purpose was to slay xenos. I did state that,
    [23:01:28]SAY: Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing: It envolved knives (CKEY: Crimson Imperator) (JOB: Chief Engineer)
    [23:01:30]SAY: Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing: And stairs (CKEY: Crimson Imperator) (JOB: Chief Engineer)
    [23:01:35]SAY: Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing: And unbreachable defenses (CKEY: Crimson Imperator) (JOB: Chief Engineer)
    That was discussing a theoretical design, which if perfected would be a perfect defense, but the prototype

    [23:29:43]ADMIN: PM: Crimson Imperator/(Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing)->Clairion/(Prime Runner (NO-866-N0)): I am working on a prototype loop system
    System was not even close to being a fully functional design.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jamesthebond's Avatar
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    This is a staff report and you both stated your reasoning now it is time to let the managers decide so please cease any possible arguments till there has been a decision
    Retired CSM Jonathon 'Ghost' Granger


    Discord Jonathongun#0219

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    Head Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    You admitted you made it hoping xenos would come into it pre-hijack, and that's what he noted you about. You can't backpedal and say "No it was for fun."
    We don't stop people from having fun if its not breaking rules, but you literally told our mod you were waiting for xenos, and that is pretty much an admission to metagaming, so he warned you.

    If you want to make disposal wacky rollercoaster to pass time and mess around, that's fine, you can do that. If you outright make a booby trap system for the purpose of killing xenos before they even come to the ship, it's always been considered metagaming. It's the same as hoarding sentries and making some hold out at the beginning of the round that people can fall back to.

    Defenses have always been only authorized once the hijack comes, it's always been for balance reasoning.

    You made a admission of metagaming, so mod just warned you. Management decision is you can build these things for fun and whatnot as long as it doesn't cause grief.
    Unhinged retiree boomer man
    Get off my lawn you kids

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