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View Poll Results: UNGA or RP

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  • RP

    31 86.11%
  • UNGA

    5 13.89%
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Thread: muh RP - Problems with current CM meta

  1. #71
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    Fewher happens to be right here tho. And the fact that all you could come up with to counter his statement is a meme response repeated over and over is only proof how toxic and immature the CM community has become.

  2. #72
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Devs or Staff didn't kill RP, changes to streamline the game killed RP in my opinion.

    With automatic vendors now, the time of your squad bullshitting with each other while waiting in the requisition line or the squad requistion lines are over. That's where most of the roleplay usually happened before briefing.

    With the little hanger briefing area, the briefing room just sits empty. Also the council saying "Yeah CO can just brief the squad leaders" killed a lot of interaction as well. All I see is people gear up, head to the dropship, or just wait for a briefing in the hanger

    Until medical is reworked, marines are literally superhuman and can just be defibbed and get pumped full of drugs to get back fighting. People wonder why I won't reverse the policy that xenos can wall up marine corpses. Marines have no care about themselves because they know they can just get revived and fully healed

    Without objectives, when there was DEFCON and IOs, marines assigned to escort the IOs would actually roleplay. You had squads roleplaying trying to restore power in engineering, trying to recover survivor corpses, etc...

    The only roleplay that happens now adays is Marines and MPs antagonize each other, but then both sides cry foul and beg staff "PLS STOP THE BAD MEN THEYRE RUINING PRE-DROP"


    If the game goes back to the way it was, I have no issues snapping my fingers and making the rules be reasonable and semi-realistic standards with IC consequences for minor rulebreaks.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    Devs or Staff didn't kill RP, changes to streamline the game killed RP in my opinion.
    With automatic vendors now, the time of your squad bullshitting with each other while waiting in the requisition line or the squad requistion lines are over. That's where most of the roleplay usually happened before briefing.
    With the little hanger briefing area, the briefing room just sits empty. Also the council saying "Yeah CO can just brief the squad leaders" killed a lot of interaction as well. All I see is people gear up, head to the dropship, or just wait for a briefing in the hanger
    Until medical is reworked, marines are literally superhuman and can just be defibbed and get pumped full of drugs to get back fighting. People wonder why I won't reverse the policy that xenos can wall up marine corpses. Marines have no care about themselves because they know they can just get revived and fully healed
    Without objectives, when there was DEFCON and IOs, marines assigned to escort the IOs would actually roleplay. You had squads roleplaying trying to restore power in engineering, trying to recover survivor corpses, etc...
    The only roleplay that happens now adays is Marines and MPs antagonize each other, but then both sides cry foul and beg staff "PLS STOP THE BAD MEN THEYRE RUINING PRE-DROP"
    If the game goes back to the way it was, I have no issues snapping my fingers and making the rules be reasonable and semi-realistic standards with IC consequences for minor rulebreaks.

    I actually completely disagree.
    The Dev team 100% killed roleplay both unintentionally and intentionally. I believe a majority of streamlining on CM was done with good intent but lacked far-sight to see the damage it would do to other mechanics in the game ie; RP. Once Roleplay standards started to drop over the years you ended up with Dev's like Fourkhan who INTENTIONALLY degraded RP further because they and I quote said things like "lol fuck RP". You then had a Staff team (moderation) essentially working against the game's intended mechanics/features for years trying to enforce higher RP standards while the Dev team was streamlining everything possible and adding K/D Stats along with gutting Medical to the point every marine is a spartan now.

    Essentially the socialization mechanics in CM that fostered conversation, encouraged communication and developed relationships where completely gutted from the game.
    Simple things like mandatory briefing, requisition lines and cross-job requirements are gone.

    The game use to require teamwork, planning and communication to play but now every marine and can solo run around without a need to work together.

    And people like Dreven are correct when they say that "Roleplay comes from the player not the game bros". This is completely correct in this iteration of CM, because there are no background mechanics, features or events that force players to naturally socialize to generate RP. If you want to RP on CM right now, you legit need to go out of your way to make it happen because the game does NOT naturally encourage it or foster it at all. It's why the most basic roleplay on CM that comes from players like Dreven is considered "Good RP", theres just nothing left to compare it to because no one else is doing it.

    It's also why if you look at the current "Top RP Players" they're all the trailer trash versions of old CM. Almost every RP Council/Leader is some trash bag who has little concept of what RP is and some are even openly opposed to basic RP mechanics in-game.
    The entire system of RP Standards essentially cascaded when the game became streamlined and leaked into every faucet possible, anti-rp Staff, low-rp players and low-rp council members.

    So yes, current CM is so streamlined that Roleplaying slows down the game for the player and isn't required to achieve the endgame.
    Where as old CM you needed to roleplay and socialize to accomplish objectives and reach endgame.

    As I've said previously, it's ok that games change over-time and it's a natural progression. Obviously I believe the current version of CM is worse than my version years ago, but otherwise believe it's better and thats ok.
    I just think it's ridiculous that you have certain players and staff who want to rewrite history and act like the playerbase are to blame for the RP Standards on CM instead of the poor leadership that leads us here.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    -Snip-
    While I really dont wanna open that can of worms and go down a rabbit hole, isint literally like, half of the things you said Dev related?
    Like who do you blame for the Game's mechanics being changed if not the Developers?

  5. #75
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    Tech Trees did kill what was left of RP and gave less points of interaction.

    Part of the problem is tech trees are unfinished and no dev really wants to dive in besides adding a little here and there to the tree. The roots are bad and is a core issue.

    Tech Trees really are not about tech tree or any of that junk. It really was meant to force in checkpoints people were meant to capture like it was team fortress, rising storm, squad, and other FPS TDM games. The thing is CM does not work well with checkpoints, tbh a better inspiration wouldve been starcraft which does not have checkpoints but resource nodes people fight over, even if you do not need resources denying the enemy matters. More it a better look at due to the asymmetrical warfare it uses.

    The biggest issue with control points and tech trees is the asymmetrical teams that will not allow this to function without throwing out what little makes this an Aliens based game. Defcon worked and tbh defcon would be a good replacement for marine tech gain while aliens would get tech points from time and boiling captures in the pool, they don't fight exactly for points but have to fight for objectives or they will be screwed. An other issue with control points is they really REALLY suck for RPing.

    How do you RP a control point within IC context? How do you say ' yea we need to stop these aliens from getting this control point or they get points' like shit man that sounds 100% like a simulation. Now compare this ' we need to stop aliens from capturing people or they will get stronger' which sounds like higher RP? Which sounds cooler and more fun? Which sounds more like Aliens?

  6. #76
    Whitelisted Captain/Retired WL Maintainer Snooper44's Avatar
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    I am just going to post this here because I created it and posted it after it was the 11th RP thread on the forums within 3 months. What I posted was largely ignored and drowned out over the waves of 'muh rights hate staff hate standards'. I think from my perspective it is an ideal way for staff to enforce RP standards and so players understand what IS acceptable and what ISN'T acceptable according to roles.

    https://gyazo.com/3e8483824cbecc6c930ec67d44f29ccc

    Each role comes from its own field. Officers obviously going through a more formal Officer Acadamy, being taught formal etiquette and such. They should be expected to not be acting like spazzes but rather as a role that is serious and dedicated to the USCM/UA, Staff should ensure they are not acting dumb in these roles and following protocol. Not full MILSIM but actually believable they are officers who deserve respect for their role like wearing uniform and obeying regulations and the chain of command.

    Then there are doctors/SLs/MTs/CL. College/NCO training/Trade school educated. They can be dumb frankly but are expected to do their jobs successfully be it surgery, loading the OB, or leading a squad/following the chain of command's orders. As long as they do that then they can get in whatever brawl or mischief they want frankly and get handled by MPs as long as its not griefing a person's round.

    Finally marines, they should be hands off from staff unless they are full out griefing/rulebreaking. Nothing should be wrong with a brawl between marines, squads, ect. 90% of the time they deploy and they are not seen again shipside so its not a big deal.

    A rank rework I believe was in the past planned for potential switching of shipside roles to the Navy and groundside remaining marines. I think it would be a good distinguishment and Marines could see less RP enforcement by staff to allow them to do their own thing and foster their own RP in combat and the naval side being expected to maintain certain standards shipside since they are not 90% in combat like maintaining SOP and that sort of stuff for MPs to enforce.

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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skimmy2 View Post
    While I really dont wanna open that can of worms and go down a rabbit hole, isint literally like, half of the things you said Dev related?
    Like who do you blame for the Game's mechanics being changed if not the Developers?
    This.

    Local staff caught lying.

    Have we sunk a new low?

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fewher View Post
    Essentially the socialization mechanics in CM that fostered conversation, encouraged communication and developed relationships where completely gutted from the game.
    Simple things like mandatory briefing, requisition lines and cross-job requirements are gone.

    The game use to require teamwork, planning and communication to play but now every marine and can solo run around without a need to work together.
    I've been saying this for some time now. Sadly the usual response from developers is "we are not killing RP, you can still RP if you want" which is completely missing the point of course.

    The developers we have are good coders no doubt. And a lot of them are really trying to make CM better as best they can. The problem is that they are bad game designers. Most of the stuff comming out, like techwebs, MOBA xenos, planned control points and such are features taken from other games. And don't get me wrong it's fine to look for inspiration. But the issue is that those features don't fit the game at all. They are essentially taking mechanics from other genres like FPS, MOBA and RTS and trying to mimic that kind of gameplay with CM. SS13 and by extention CM was and always will be a simulation/roleplaying game. It's just how the game was designed (in it's core it's still "just" an atmospherics simulator). And while it's fine to explore the combat and try to make it feel better, i am sorry to tell you but ss13 will never achieve the smooth combat experience of these other games, no matter how much you try. By focusing so much on the TDM combat aspect while neglecting or even cutting the rest the devs are trying to mold the game into something it will never be. They are essentially ignoring the strongest aspects of ss13 gameplay and focusing all their effort on the weakest one.

    Don't get me wrong, capture points, fancy menus, loadouts that need only a few clicks, these all sound really nice, for a shooter. Quite frankly i believe that CM can do much more. We have a framework laid out by countless of previous ss13 developers that provides the foundation for a really good RP/Sim game. So why not focus on those aspects first. Don't try to make CM a TDM shooter game, but instead realize that CM would be much better (and probably was originaly though of as) a combat heavy SS13 server. I think the strongest points of ss13, the RP and simulation aspects, can compliment a combat focused setting like CM really well if done correctly. I've always seen great potential in CM, and it pains me greatly to see it trying to become something it can never be.

    Instead of dumming down the game, let's play to the ss13 strenghts and add complexity. Instead of streamlining everything let's add depth. Instead of gamey mechanics and menus, let's focus on roleplay and player interaction. Instead of PFCs being able to solo everything let's focus on teamwork.

    Instead of making a natural selection/foxhole clone let's make CM

  9. #79
    Dev Team Manager Stan_albatross's Avatar
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    While devs were at fault for removing squad req and replacing it with autovendors, I feel that by the time they were removed, every round just had the SL or aSL dump squad req and nobody would wait in the line or RP much. The main things I liked about squad req were that it meant every squad got a fair chance at stuff like AP ammo, and the spec and SL would always get the stuff from it that they wanted. However, even removing 12:15 rush drops couldn't satiate the desire of the players to AFK on the dropship, and as such they would still just send everything and run to DS1 to afk on it. When I started the game in May/June 2020 this didn't really happen, but over time more and more people started doing it. Why? Maybe changes to medical that made pfcs want to get stuff from it more, maybe the settling of the meta, maybe people just got into a routine.

    While devs did kill the squad req line wait RP, the players themselves had already been killing it.

    I think the main way to fix pre-drop RP is to make it beneficial to attend briefing again, keep PFCs east of the lockdown shutters, and make it harder for PFCs to powergame with stuff from medical.

    Also hangar briefings - while nowadays they seem to be basically the default (which I dislike. As XO I never do hangar briefings) we should remember that they just encourage people to afk on the ds and skip brief the moment they hear their orders.
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan_albatross View Post
    While devs were at fault for removing squad req and replacing it with autovendors, I feel that by the time they were removed, every round just had the SL or aSL dump squad req and nobody would wait in the line or RP much. The main things I liked about squad req were that it meant every squad got a fair chance at stuff like AP ammo, and the spec and SL would always get the stuff from it that they wanted. However, even removing 12:15 rush drops couldn't satiate the desire of the players to AFK on the dropship, and as such they would still just send everything and run to DS1 to afk on it. When I started the game in May/June 2020 this didn't really happen, but over time more and more people started doing it. Why? Maybe changes to medical that made pfcs want to get stuff from it more, maybe the settling of the meta, maybe people just got into a routine.

    While devs did kill the squad req line wait RP, the players themselves had already been killing it.

    I think the main way to fix pre-drop RP is to make it beneficial to attend briefing again, keep PFCs east of the lockdown shutters, and make it harder for PFCs to powergame with stuff from medical.

    Also hangar briefings - while nowadays they seem to be basically the default (which I dislike. As XO I never do hangar briefings) we should remember that they just encourage people to afk on the ds and skip brief the moment they hear their orders.
    Squad reqs were already bad. We should have stayed with just basic req line and that's it. The only reason we have for vendors now is that everyone feels entitled to attachements. We actually used to make fun of people grabbing too much gear like that. Attachies are a neat little bonus not a requirement.

    As for pre-drop RP there is just not enough time for anything meaningful. Drop time used to be as late as 12:30 sometimes even more. Nowadays we need a hardcoded limit to avoid ungas launching before the rest are even geared.

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