On the subject of slurs

[ThesoldierLLJK]

At the end of the day it comes down to Acceptance vs Tolerance.
People make the argument "I believe in traditional Christian values and what you allow goes against that." but you need to learn to just ignore it, because it's considered socially acceptable.

An example is: Someone may not agree with same sex relationships, but they understand it's fundamentally wrong to discriminate people based on their lifestyle, so they put aside personal beliefs and tolerate it.

I could write the dissertation response, but the overall theme I get from this is

"Staff shouldn't get involved unless X happens or if X happens, please consider the context."
And I'll work on that.

But I keep reading misinformation that "staff members dont get banned for breaking rules."

If a staff member breaks rules, a manager notes them/bans them like anyone else. Then we have a personnel file on the side that we log any sanctions.
Sanctions are
Warning
Suspension
Removal

Everyone keeps referring to discord staff or staff breaking discord rules. I can tell you right now Somenerd/DoctorProbe are quick to notify to us what they're doing including "Hey I got a complaint against X/Y/Z"

Discord goes 500 texts a second, and most of us miss stuff, so if you say it's happening, then report it.

[ChainsawMullet]

The main topic is about nigga, though I guess we can add retard in to.

Anyway talking about how mods are treated and how they might be too ban happy is also worth discussing with this as it feels some mods might be getting too jumpy and are not being kept to high standard.

Yeah, I've already talked a lot about this in a different thread, not repeating it here.

For population going down due to stringent enforcement, ha. Yea, no. The population of the server been suffering from lack of new good features, the tech webs were a bust and abandoned and we havent got really anything new in about 6 so months, yes we got new ice and science but they been not well received to say the least. Science needs more baking and Ice should be shelved or it needs the control points back and CPs to be fine tuned to work but that a whole other discussion. But, population has not died from enforcement against slurs.

Population was dropping even before techwebs, with the only thing happening around that time was the continued shift in expectations, discord enforcement, and mods being given more protection against consequences. The poor reception of techwebs is definitely a large part of it currently, but it was happening even before that and current standards are still playing a significant part in players leaving today.

TBH discord even had problems at times with wackos sometimes overrunning like the Sigma guy, the nonironic guy that sounded like some commercial spammer then anything else, and the antivax guy that just kept going till banned

Wackos are wackos, they're not the norm, the fact that you single them out proves they're not blending in.

Most other causes you seen people just directly attack the mods and then get smacked, over and over again, it like trying to punch a cop and being surprised when you get arrested. For the edgy memes, very hit and miss if they survive, but we don't need crappy low effort 'woman got beaten please clap' memes and other low effort memes that just push agendas.

Edgy memes are whatever, as you said they're hit and miss, but it was pretty rare to see very many of them at any one time before they started getting stomped out. They're being posted more BECAUSE they get the reaction they do from staff, even the woman beating spam was a short-lived shitpost about the football cup.

Also, comparing staff to cops is very apt, since the ironclad protection from all responsibility has a very nice parallel with the current state of the American police. Funny considering one of the heads is/was an American cop.

But I keep reading misinformation that "staff members dont get banned for breaking rules."

If a staff member breaks rules, a manager notes them/bans them like anyone else. Then we have a personnel file on the side that we log any sanctions.
Sanctions are
Warning
Suspension
Removal

When I was staff I got suspended for getting a minor note. During Nanu's time as mod manager a staff member was suspended for bug abuse, another was suspended for getting a note and then removed for getting a job ban during their suspension (they're now cbanned guess their name).

Now a staff member posts explicit NSFW alongside another player posting NSFW, the staff member receives an internal note and the player receives a ban.

The issue is not that staff members never receive punishment in any form, it's that they now receive significantly less punishment than a player would. That makes no fucking sense. You should be looking to staff members as examples of how to behave, but they get away with far more with less repercussions. What message does this send to players?

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Now a staff member posts explicit NSFW alongside another player posting NSFW, the staff member receives an internal note and the player receives a ban.

The issue is not that staff members never receive punishment in any form, it's that they now receive significantly less punishment than a player would. That makes no fucking sense. You should be looking to staff members as examples of how to behave, but they get away with far more with less repercussions. What message does this send to players?

I'm assuming this is the dry humping meme on discord. The only thing I can say is that history has plenty to do with how bans are given. Also discord was always considered a separate thing from game bans/notes for everyone.

However if it was reported to discord staff/managers and it was investigated, if it's the same violation that both players have, but say one player has never had a warning or ban, they don't get the same punishment if the other party had a history if it's an offense that has an escalated punishment. But people keep clinging to the one example, and coming up on a 18+ policy (basically no tits, no lips, no sexual organs) and that gamer stuff like teabagging or tasteful pin-up art being acceptable is on my agenda.

[Pigeon]

I'm assuming this is the dry humping meme on discord. The only thing I can say is that history has plenty to do with how bans are given. Also discord was always considered a separate thing from game bans/notes for everyone.

However if it was reported to discord staff/managers and it was investigated, if it's the same violation that both players have, but say one player has never had a warning or ban, they don't get the same punishment if the other party had a history if it's an offense that has an escalated punishment. But people keep clinging to the one example, and coming up on a 18+ policy (basically no tits, no lips, no sexual organs) and that gamer stuff like teabagging or tasteful pin-up art being acceptable is on my agenda.

No the xeno dong one that got lanche noted

[ChainsawMullet]

I'm assuming this is the dry humping meme on discord. The only thing I can say is that history has plenty to do with how bans are given. Also discord was always considered a separate thing from game bans/notes for everyone.

However if it was reported to discord staff/managers and it was investigated, if it's the same violation that both players have, but say one player has never had a warning or ban, they don't get the same punishment if the other party had a history if it's an offense that has an escalated punishment. But people keep clinging to the one example, and coming up on a 18+ policy (basically no tits, no lips, no sexual organs) and that gamer stuff like teabagging or tasteful pin-up art being acceptable is on my agenda.

No, it was not the dry humping meme, it was a player's NSFW commission of their character holding a xenomorph on a leash with giant, exposed breasts. Two players got banned during it, Avalanche who got banned because he posted a Yautja female picture and a staff member THOUGHT they saw nipples, and another player who posted an NSFW image I can't quite remember that had an exposed penis. The staff member, as I already stated, received an internal warning.

[c4xmaniac]

The issue, as I see it, is primarily what comes next for enforcement. I touched on this satirically in the moderation thread, but I'll do it more seriously here. The Pride month episode seemed to point that staff was moving towards a certain ideological opinion, especially when dissent was essentially outlawed. Shortly after pride month, we now have another expansion of staff rulings further pushing the notion that staff is moving towards a more leftist and PC mentality. The issue is not so much that I can't say any of the gamer words, so much as what comes next. I've already seen the rumblings of people trying to get the word "retard" banned, and from "retard" where next? If the noting for someone using the word because its ableist is true, then this just further proves my point. No one wants to exist in a community where if you say something that could, possibly, offend someone then you get noted, warned, banned, etc. The worry here is that CM is well on its way to becoming a hugbox like goonstation. The server is stagnated development wise, and now an increasingly zealous staff team is beginning enforcing more and more, how does one expect that people aren't going to leave or eventually create a direct rival?

[Somenerd]

The main topic is about nigga, though I guess we can add retard in to.

Anyway talking about how mods are treated and how they might be too ban happy is also worth discussing with this as it feels some mods might be getting too jumpy and are not being kept to high standard.

For population going down due to stringent enforcement, ha. Yea, no. The population of the server been suffering from lack of new good features, the tech webs were a bust and abandoned and we havent got really anything new in about 6 so months, yes we got new ice and science but they been not well received to say the least. Science needs more baking and Ice should be shelved or it needs the control points back and CPs to be fine tuned to work but that a whole other discussion. But, population has not died from enforcement against slurs. TBH discord even had problems at times with wackos sometimes overrunning like the Sigma guy, the nonironic guy that sounded like some commercial spammer then anything else, and the antivax guy that just kept going till banned. Most other causes you seen people just directly attack the mods and then get smacked, over and over again, it like trying to punch a cop and being surprised when you get arrested. For the edgy memes, very hit and miss if they survive, but we don't need crappy low effort 'woman got beaten please clap' memes and other low effort memes that just push agendas.

We have something like 80+Merge Requests right now, but very few coders willing to review them. We're in a bit of a shortage unfortunately

[Heraclitus]

What you're saying here is bullshit because when i was a moderator i could count with my fingers on how many people i banned or warned by saying NIG and FAG and as someone who literally plays the game 24/7 like theres no tomorrow someone saying nig or fag in the server RARELY happens even as a non staff right now i dont see any people saying any slurs at all.
Seriously. I dare you guys to search for hard n, fagg*ts and see how much of it shows up in the gpanel logs. You will literally see it probably used once or even none in a day.

You know I think this is something that's worth nothing. This is purely anecdotal but: I've played CM on and off for 3 years, I've seen plenty of 12 year olds spaming the N word over the radio but I've never seen an interaction between two players (not characters, actual players) where one insulted the others race. I can't speak to discord because all discords are cancer, but actually in game if I see someone say 'Lets kill some xenos niggas' I can be almost certain that it isn't meant as a slur. CM has had problems but outside of a few vocal people and trolls that quickly got banned it honestly isn't a racist place, from what I've experienced.

So why are people getting noted for using slang words (nigga, xigs) or completely normal insults like retard? If I had to guess I would say that behind almost every one of those bwoinks was an ahelp from someone who wasn't even the target of the 'slurs' being offended on someone's behalf. That's what happened with Crimson and the whole 'jews in the oven' thing that did away with IC racism being allowed. I think there's a general feeling among mods that if someone is offended by something then someone is being toxic, no ifs or buts. Which is a bad way of doing things. Toxic behaviour must be judged by the intent behind the behaviour, not the result of it. Is the player calling someone a retard really ablist? Or just expressing frustration at some idiotic behaviour?

Btw if anyone doesn't believe me about the 'xigs' thing, just look up Avalanchee's notes.

Player reminded that calling xenos 'xigs' is unacceptable.
By x (SystemAdmin) on 2021-05-28 17:49:20

What will be banned next for sounding too similar to the n-word, naggers?

I think the only thing that needs to change here is this: the focus of slurs being on what the accused were trying to say, not what another player's worse interpretation of what they did say was. Someone saying "Sup my nigga's" to their metafriends, who they've known IC and OOC for years, is not someone trying to be racist.

[Papa_Pollard]

At the end of the day it comes down to Acceptance vs Tolerance.
People make the argument "I believe in traditional Christian values and what you allow goes against that." but you need to learn to just ignore it, because it's considered socially acceptable.

An example is: Someone may not agree with same sex relationships, but they understand it's fundamentally wrong to discriminate people based on their lifestyle, so they put aside personal beliefs and tolerate it.

Dude... youre literally telling one side to suck it up and accept something they disagree with but then say that interactions with friends that make use of a word that "may" or "could be" found offensive should therefor be punished.

Youre in the pub with your mates and youre all talking shit to one another, is it socially acceptable for someone who isnt even apart of your table to approach and demand you to cease your conversation because they find that the language used could be offensive or upsetting to someone else? No, not really. They arent involved or apart so why should you cater to their opinion.

And with what somenerd was saying about how they dont understand why people keep calling CM a PC place full of karens, youve literally admitted to changing the server into a safespace in your statements.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I’ll make it easy then.

Players here can’t use racial slurs in the community against people period if it’s banter or not. If you want to go call your fellow friends “faggot tranny nigger cunt”, do it on another discord.

IC racism is not coming back, and being a toxic dick is not tolerated on discord as well.

If players cannot accept that, no one is forcing anyone to stay here.

CM will remain a PG13 server where you can insult each other by calling each other morons, dweebs, idiots, etc… just don’t use racist, sexist, or transphobic terms. You wanna call PFC immamarine a cunt because he FF you, no problem, and that won’t change.

Nigga has been deemed ok as long as you use it in the context of dude. When it comes to using insults you can insult people but if a player says please stop, you stop. If a staff member says stop, you stop.