Objectives & Defcon balancing

[Foolosopher]

DEFCON document retrieval would work if maps were linear and with each advance over xeno territory marines could upload from a terminal or such, but that's not the case, and probably will never be, because that's not the type of game that CM is.

The collecting papers/files part honestly is flawed, not only because they're items which take space, but because if a marine dies with them in their pocket, they're basically gone. In my opinion, the whole system should work as a direct counter to mutators, by rewarding marines for killing xenos. After all, xenos only get stronger over time, so they should get strong as well. Give marines some hand scanners to scan dead xeno bodies and submit the data to ARES, perform some autopsies, whatever. Data retrieval could still exist, but it should be exclusive to terminal uploads and also guarded by xenos (or maybe map hazards?)

[That Happy Cat]

As people have said, the paper/data trail mechanic simply doesn't work and isn't fun for anyone. The two big draws of CM should be RP and combat (though in practice people care a lot more about the latter than the former), and the paper trail mechanic facilitates neither. It's a chore. And chores shouldn't exist in a game without good reason.

IMO the paper trail should just be a few semi-hidden data discs (inside computer terminals would be a good one) or macguffins that contain actual, semi-randomised lore/background (to facilitate RP) that give a reasonable boost when brought back to the Almayer server room (and really, this part needs to be clearer because most people don't realise where data actually needs to go to count). The silly "you must have read this or that" and then "type password into there" mechanic should go, it should be a simple fetch job and not a tedious "treasure" trail: but there should only be a few, and they should be individually significant.

The importance of marine and especially xeno corpses should be increased in general. Marine corpses is essentially to allow DEFCON be a sort of come back mechanic, and xeno corpses should be self-explanatory (and could tie into a future research system). Corpses contributing to DEFCON is good because 1. it is created by combat and 2. RP wise it makes sense marines would want to collect fallen comrades and xeno specimens, so it fulfills both "needs" of CM.

Survivors could be another thing that would contribute to DEFCON. Perhaps survivors can start with some lore macguffin that gives DEFCON points when returned (and might help the survivors themselves to build a backstory around their macguffin), or perhaps just having live survivors on board the Almayer itself would add some points.

Also, the Researcher role could be geared more heavily towards DEFCON. Giving Researchers access to the server room would be a good start, and perhaps autopsy reports could add more DEFCON points on top of the corpse's contribution. There's room here to add xenoresearch and data anaalysis for Researchers to do as well.

[Boersgard]

The importance of marine and especially xeno corpses should be increased in general. Marine corpses is essentially to allow DEFCON be a sort of come back mechanic, and xeno corpses should be self-explanatory (and could tie into a future research system). Corpses contributing to DEFCON is good because 1. it is created by combat and 2. RP wise it makes sense marines would want to collect fallen comrades and xeno specimens, so it fulfills both "needs" of CM.

I really like the idea of returning marine corpses to the almayer giving more points for defcon. It should give dchat some hope that despite being dead, maybe their corpse will still be enough to earn them a ticket in a reinforcement wave.

[Madventurer]

Yeah, if returned corpses gave a decent amount of DEFCON points, it might actually motivate marines to retrieve the corpses.

[soundwavesghost]

I'm maybe the only person who likes the decrypt letters part. But I've only so far out of six rounds of researcher managed to fully go through the paper steps to get the right disk to point me to a terminal on the planet....which we got the EORG notice as we'd won a few seconds later. Feeding into the scans another thing added for SL's to do would be yet another thing they DON'T do. As a old school PO you know they just don't have time. I'd be more than happy to add the Mortician pamplet or INTEL officer pamplet to PFCs.

[That Happy Cat]

An extra thought re: data retrieval.

If data is changed into semi-rare macguffins that provide lore fragments, then perhaps bringing it back to the Almayer's server room would trigger a Command Announcement re: said lore fragment. This could include so-called "meta" information such as a Colony Researcher's note on the xenomorph lifecycle so marines can stop pretending they don't know what's going on.

It's not exactly a new, disruptive thing either since completing the current tedious treasure trails already triggers a Command Announcement futilely telling marines to access this or that terminal.

[Fritigern]

There is no fixing this system. The only way to make it meaningful for marines is to make the rewards substantially more powerful, in which case it would likely unbalance the game to the salt of xeno players. Rounds are too short to have marines taking part in scavenger hunts, especially when that leaves lone groups vulnerable to xeno players who are under no obligation to avoid metagaming their purpose. And if you dumb it down so much that all you have to do is just turn in a handful of items to get some basic rewards, things that marines would have had/should have by default, but now can only be gained through time wasting and hoop jumping, then that's a failure in gameplay design.

You'd be better off sprinkling the maps with smaller, mini-objectives that marines can quickly complete upon first landing. Acid resistant combination safes and ID locked storage containers with randomized weapons or attachments inside. Maybe a data terminal that spits out an instructional pamphlet to increase a marines skill.

[That Happy Cat]

My take on a revamped DEFCON and objectives system:

• Objective points are now 0-100. Effectively, points and percentage DEFCON progress are now the same thing.
• DEFCON 4 requires 25%, 3 requires 50%, 2 requires 75%, 1 requires 100%. Thresholds are higher so it actually goes to 100, but progress past DEFCON 4 should be easier due to the changes below.

1. Lore Macguffins

• Paper scraps, folder, disc and terminal system depreceated. Document pouch removed.
• Instead, 5 "objective items" spawn in semi-random locations on the map. These contain lore fragments when read or examined, and can include data disks, colonist journals, test tube samples of xenomorph blood, and so on; drawn randomly from a pool of more than 5 items (so you won't see the same items every match). Each item will spawn in places that make sense, e.g. a researcher's data disk would likely spawn in a computer terminal in a lab.
• Each objective item brought back to the Almayer's server room provides 5% DEFCON progress.
• Researchers now have full access to the Almayer's server room.
• When an objective item is returned, its lore fragment is sent out as a Command Broadcast. Note lore can include IC information such as about the xeno lifecycle, xeno acid capabilities, and so on.

2. Colony Services

• Restoring power and telecomms provide 5% DEFCON progress each the first time they are achieved in a match.
• Maps without telecomms provide 7.5% DEFCON progress when power is restored.

3. Human Corpses

• Each corpse interred in the Almayer's morgue (lying on the morgue floor doesn't count - this effectively provides a maximum to how much corpses can contribute) provides 0.25%. I'd suggest capping this to 20 (current morgue has 22 slots, so take away the two below the incinerator).
• Each autopsy report filed in the Almayer's morgue's filing cabinet provides 0.25%. Only one report from each individual corpse will be counted. Maximum of 20 autopsy reports can be filed.

4. Xeno Corpses

• Each xeno corpse in the Almayer's containment units provide 1%.
• I'd love for holding live xenos to provide points, but if it does then Carriers might turn into walking DEFCON pinatas for marines; so best not.
• Add something for Researchers to do with xeno corpses that can provide more DEFCON points and other goodies for marines.

5. Survivors

• Each survivor carries a "lesser objective item" that are similar to normal ones (lore and all, which can let survivors build their backstories off these items if they want), but provide only 2.5% DEFCON progress when returned.
• The first time a living survivor sets foot on the Almayer they provide 2.5%.

[FGRSentinel]

The issue with that is that on LV (which doesn't have Tcomms that can be restored) if there's four survivors that all somehow miraculously survive and choose to go with the Marines, as well as 20 corpses brought up the the Almayer and autopsied while all five objective items are found and power's restored, DEFCON gets to 62.5%. This means it takes 13 Xeno Corpses to get to DEFCON 2 and 38 to get to DEFCON 1. You can shave three off the requirement on other maps, but the fact is if the Marines can get all of that and return 10+ Xeno corpses to the Almayer, they might not need DEFCON 2 and 30+ means the Marines are probably cleaning up the last few benos anyways.

[That Happy Cat]

My thought is that when the Research revamp happens, xeno research can add another 0.5% to each xeno corpse. Survivors can still provide 2.5% from their macguffin even if they die: might be a good idea to toss it away if you're doomed so people can find out what happened to you, for example.

Human corpses can certainly provide more DEFCON progress, but what you don't want is for xenos to feel penalised for killing marines (or maybe they should, to encourage capturing?). Likewise planting xeno eggs and growing your own xenos might provide a windfall, but might also cause xenos to yell at Carriers for leaving the Hive.

Overall I think if marines do decently they can get 45% pretty reliably, with DEFCON 3 achieved in most rounds. DEFCON 2 IMO shouldn't be available if the match is decided in one big push, but in matches with back and forth happening I would like it to be reached often. Hopefully with more changes like xeno maturation and power curve this will become the norm rather than the exception.

I envision DEFCON 1 to be like a nuke OB that kills everything on the surface (but can't be fired if more than X living, non-infected marines remain on the surface, because ARES is shit kind). It should only come into play if a match just won't end. For added spice ordering it might have a chance of spawning a Death Squad, intent on preserving Company assets by any means necessary.

You can always tweak numbers and/or add more objective items, in fact it might be a good idea to make it dynamic so it can compensate for server population.