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Thread: Staff Report - Hhahs28

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    Staff Report - Hhahs28

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Flpfs
    Date of Incident
    August 25, 2021
    Your Character Name?
    Phillip Clap
    Their BYOND Key
    Hhahs28
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    15:30 Central Time
    Which Staff Protocols (https://cm-ss13.com/forums/showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Ensure that all incidents are adequately investigated before giving a ruling.
    Description of the incident
    The moderator Hhahs28 refused to punish Lovis Seto, the CMP in that round, for helping the researcher plant and manage a xeno egg.

    Lovis Seto did not have my authorization so therefore he was committing Sedition, that is why I ahelped, because it was an OOC issue. The moderator refused to punish Lovis and called it an IC issue, which it isn't.

    A moderator is supposed to know that MPs violating the law is an OOC issue, their lack of knowledge implies that they are not ready for this position.
    Evidence
    LCDR. Lovis Seto says, "We have settled eggs in cintainmet"
    LCDR. Lovis Seto says, "Ill need accses to there"

    CDR. Phillip Clap says, "Why didn't I get informed of this"
    LCDR. Lovis Seto says, "Also id like to allow Rsr to be allowed a sidearm"

    PM to Staff (AdminHelp):
    can u doink Lovis Seto for planting an egg without my
    permission, he's the CMP and should know better

    Moderator PM from Hhahs28: What happnened, he planted a xeno egg in containment?

    M to Hhahs28: LCDR. Lovis Seto says, "We have settled eggs in cintainmet"

    PM to Hhahs28: He informed me after he already did it, then he asked for me to give the researcher a pistol and for me to give him access to research

    Moderator PM from Hhahs28: The CMP said he didnt plant the egg, he just put a monke into the contaiment cell that contain the egg.


    PM to Hhahs28: Why didn't he arrest the researcher? That's neglect of duty

    Moderator PM from Hhahs28: I dont know about that, you need to ask the CMP.

    PM to Hhahs28: but if he didnt arrest the researcher it's neglect of duty and against rules

    PM to Hhahs28: this isn't an IC issue


    Moderator PM from Hhahs28: So you are saying the person that planted the egg inside the containment should be charged with NOD, do you know who is the person that planted the egg, you need to ask the CMP ICly to arrest the specific person as this doesnt really counted as a rule break from the CMP. But if the CMP witness a person doing a major crime, and choose to ignore it, that is counted as a OOC issue. This seem more or less an IC issue to me.

    PM to Hhahs28: Alright, then


    There's a bit more of logs but I didn't get them all, so somebody will have to dump the admin PMs and my dialogue with Lovis.
    How you would punish the accused
    Demotion from staff

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    So first you said it is the CMP that planted the egg, I go and PM the CMP and it appears that it is one of the researchers that planted the egg, the CMP is assisting him in securing and getting a xenomorph up, now I don't know if the CMP is aware that they don't have the permission of putting an egg in containment, but if he knows he can't do that, and he still decided to, that would be an OOC issue, but if he doesn't know anything about not able to plant an egg in containment, that would not be his fault and it should be an IC issue.

    And about the part where the CMP is breaking the law, what I am assuming at that time is the CMP is not aware that any ML is broken here, as I never play researcher before, I don't actually know that you would need access from command to plant a Xeno egg in containment. If you want the researcher to be arrested you should ask the CMP to do it, if he actively refuses to do it, that would be an OOC issue because he is not doing his job.

    With all that said, I did consult with other staff in msay whether this is an IC or OOC issue, and one of the senior admin said it would be an IC issue. (Sorry if this doesn't sound very clear to you, English is not my first language.)
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    IC is what the character believes. Xeno eggs may have been authorized to bring on board by squad leader or higher, would have to ask CMO if the experiment was authorized, if not then order the CMP to remove the eggs.

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    now I don't know if the CMP is aware that they don't have the permission of putting an egg in containment, but if he knows he can't do that, and he still decided to, that would be an OOC issue, but if he doesn't know anything about not able to plant an egg in containment, that would not be his fault and it should be an IC issue.
    that would not be his fault and it should be an IC issue.
    Military Police and even more so their leader are obliged by the rules to follow marine law at all times or they will be punished OOCly as rule 11 states. There is no excuse for not knowing marine law as the CMP and I believe you are mistaken by saying this.

    The only person that could have authorized xeno eggs being planted in that round was either me or Harley Piett, which was the Captain that round. Neither of us authorized the eggs being planted, Lovis Seto knew this but decided to aid the researcher anyways. That is aiding Sedition in Marine Law, which is a capital crime. Lovis Seto was the CMP and was not allowed to commit crimes. I fail to see how this is an IC issue.

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    Senior Member Lumdor's Avatar
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    Admin logs between Hhahs28 and Flpfs.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Admin logs between Hhahs28 and the accused.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Msay logs about the situation.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Logs relating to the eggs from the accused.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Research talking about the eggs and the execution of the infected monkey.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Kinda important to not here but cic doesn't actually need to approve the planting of eggs. As has been the case for years now most things research are either authorized by the CMO OR the CO. Either one is fine. Considering the CMO is perfectly fine with research planting the eggs it doesnt mater that Lovis didnt have any authorization from cic as he got it from the CMO. It would be a different case if the CO had explicitly banned the planting of eggs but that doesnt seem to be the case.
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    Please don’t comment on a report you are not involved with.

    As it stands however, technically speaking authorisation for extraordinary things, similar to ship modification by engineering, require permission from head of relevant department and XO, or just the CO if there is one.
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    Mod Manager Somenerd's Avatar
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    I've clarified with Nanu and double checked the definition for the law "Sedition".

    "To engage in actions or refuse to follow orders as to overthrow or usurp the legitimate command structure. Creating a massive threat to the ship without the knowledge and approval of the Commander falls under sedition."

    Planting an egg in and of itself isn't necessarily Sedition by itself, but as things go on gradually becomes closer to a massive threat as defined under sedition. However, there are no well regarded or well defined definitions of authorisations regarding making hives in research and there's no specific authorisation process that I'm aware of. Regardless, if Command wants the hive terminated, you can order it terminated and the MP's should deal with it.

    Logs don't show the MP as being the one that planted the egg, helping with the monkey is a bit iffy, but I find it odd that instead of just ordering the MP to handle the hive you ahelped the situation when it was still resolvable IC. The MP informed you of the researchers actions, and then you ahelped asking why he wasn't making arrests already. Just feels a bit sudden to me. If you'd told them ICly to shut it down and arrest the researcher and they didn't I think there'd be more substance to this.

    I'm denying the report on the basis that this is an IC issue, I don't see anything blatantly disregarding the ship's safety nor knowledge from the CMP and this is sort of an iffy area regarding Marine Law.

    Resolved, Denied
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