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View Poll Results: do engineers need a change?

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  • engineer gameplay is fun and no change is needed

    3 3.70%
  • metal and plasteel costs should be greatly reduced or cades greatly increased in durability

    27 33.33%
  • an objective that marines can take that provides req with points

    17 20.99%
  • Both cost reduction/durability tweaks and an objective for req

    34 41.98%
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Thread: squad engineer gameplay is insanely unfun

  1. #11
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    I play engie purely for the JIMA or Bell frame packs and just PFC+ unless there’s 0 other engies then I’ll make one cade line before going off and ungaing. Why the fuck would I make an autism fort fob for an hour just so that it dies in under a minute of pressure when I can troll xenos with the funny engie sentry upgrades and have fun? Honestly, if you still play engie for building you’re either stuck in the past or a masochist.

  2. #12
    Junior Member PurpleCloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4xmaniac View Post
    I play engie purely for the JIMA or Bell frame packs and just PFC+ unless there’s 0 other engies then I’ll make one cade line before going off and ungaing. Why the fuck would I make an autism fort fob for an hour just so that it dies in under a minute of pressure when I can troll xenos with the funny engie sentry upgrades and have fun? Honestly, if you still play engie for building you’re either stuck in the past or a masochist.
    I have to agree with you on that, Cades are an illusion of safety, window frames do a better job at being cades than cades and yet they are considered metagaming, I dislike the state engies are at.
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  3. #13
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    engi is fine. JIMA flag backpack should be a loadout for SLs so they are actually useful.
    The only thing i hate about engineer gameplay is that T2s can destroy walls and airlocks making welding/bolting them very useless.

  4. #14
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    I would love to use bipodscope guns on FOB to help FOBs actually stay intact against trapper boilers but resin bunkers killed that idea.

    That aside, I'd rather engis get faster building speed than anything else if I can only pick one.

    Also what's with the fixation with large LZ FOBs, barely anyone usually stays in FOB and a fuckhuge one just makes watching everything harder.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Outcast Seer's Avatar
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    Experiencing the various engi nerfs kind of broke me and I find myself often playing as PFC+ with sentry backup.

    Engineer construction is really one-dimensional. A lot of creativity was removed with nerfs over the past three years. Signaler-airlocks are dead. Walls benefit xenos more than marines these days. Sentries can't be ordered from req to supplement FOB defenses.

    There just really isn't anything interesting in building 50 metal cades when you know in the back of your head that the xenos only need to break one cade for the entire line to fall.

    It would be interesting to see engineers get more things to construct, such as powercell-powered floodlights, razor-wire lines, electrified razor-wire lines, tank-traps, etc.

    Engineers are builders. Give them more than two objects to build please.
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  6. #16
    Member Bob_Vancleave's Avatar
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    Thwomper (patron saint of engineers) is working, or atleast has aspirations to work on some engi content and should hit most of the main problems with engi (construction related stuff) . Dunno the ETA but I know about it. I also like the idea of tank traps, we could have a AT mine that would only trigger if the tank or a larger xeno steps on it and it could do a fair bit of damage.
    reformed :sunglasses:

  7. #17
    Member FoxyShibata's Avatar
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    The biggest problem in my mind is trapper.

    No matter how statistically good cades are made (Which is it's own issue, they suck dick at the moment) or how cheap they are (Again, with no way for req to get funds this also isn't the case) Trapper is the unstoppable object that renders basically any FOB pointless aside from blocking runners/lurkers.

    Imagine if marines had something like a GAU CAS, with infinite ammo, that fired instantly, and required no teamwork to set up. (So, the techwebs railgun :P). Imagine how much of a pain in the ass it would be for all your built up walls and traps and doors to just get nuked over and over and over and over by someone you can do nothing about.

    Trapper is like that, except marines don't have infinite resin to build structures with, there's no one who can remote build a metal cade, and your average bravo can't shit out a metal node that provides instant terrain advantage either.
    So long as trapper can ping away at not just one but three fucking cades, from a position of absolute safety, Building FOB for more than lurker defense may as well not matter.

    You can still make good FOBs. You can still turn the tide from them. But it requires either xeno incompetence, or a good OB to do so. (And those two may as well be the same thing with how powerful the dumbass frontline hivecore is)
    The amount of effort it takes to be a good FOB engineer these days is stress-inducing, you have to be trying your fucking ass off, to the point where it's barely even fun. FOBing used to be a chill experience, something I'd do when I wanted to take a break from ungaing. Now it's just depressing, most of the time.
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  8. #18
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    Just so you know, I am a xeno main and am probably biased towards xenos.

    That said, my first thought on FOBs is that I agree that the cades themselves don't seem to do enough. Marines often have to back up a few squares from the actual barricades, along with as mentioned, trappers pound cades to oblivion. Now you can constantly snipe the trapper, but it can still get some hits in and retreat to heal and repeat. Honestly, outside of cade sieges, trapper sucks too. I would rather just not have a trapper class. Boiler does a good enough job creating a period of smoke that if the marines don't use explosives, overreaction with bullets, etc the wall can break. More teamwork oriented at least. Second, I think brute, and ONLY brute attacks should be blocked by the barricades. Give marines a break from bleed, fractures, etc. Xenos still need to be able to fight and chase marines away from the wall or disable turrets that are too up front, so that's where spitters, boilers, and spitting prae can shine.

    My second thought is the troubles that come with giving marines too much turtle power is also very, very harmful to the balance of the game. It might be easier to understand by going to the extremes so let me start with that. Let's say marines have max possible defense. They are invulnerable inside the FOB and the walls just about can never break. The machine guns/turrets are at least dangerous for xenos to be around. The aliens are currently strong, and the marines are refusing to leave the FOB. In this scenario, some of the things that are going on in my mind:
    -Xenos are going to lose some silly sisters to machine gun fire, turrets, stun weapons, or camping specs. On the other hand marines are highly unlikely (or in this case impossible) to lose any marines. The longer this siege goes on, the more xenos than marines will die.
    -The battlefield is no longer fluid, and so mortars, CAS, and OBs have way better understanding of where to fire to be as close to the front lines without hurting the marines. All of a sudden all support becomes way more effective at killing xenos. Again, longer the siege goes on, the more xenos than marines will die.
    -As time goes on, marines who have permad before the siege will leave, and new marines will show up to the server. Slowly the marines will be replenished. Xeno larva passively remains unchanged.
    -As time goes on, marines supplies will both be higher and lower depending on the items. More rockets from OT will show up, more OB will come, more specialist ammo will be bought, and yet medical (or not in this case, but generally yes) and normal ammo will slowly drain. Those high explosive/spec ammo pieces will surely lead to more xeno deaths, but at the same time if it got long enough the marines would lose all ability to use normal guns. Maybe supply can keep up, hard to say. Adjusting the scenario to have less defenses, and what this bullet point is trying to get at: I am actually not sure if marines will...for lack of words, be richer or poorer for taking on defensive tactics. Longer games might lead to new discoveries on this front.
    -Marines have research while the xenos don't. At some point stims will come out and marines will all be the super marines with super speed and cannot be stunned. If lucky automatic bone mending too.

    All the above on the second thought to conclude: xenos are on a timer. Marines are not. Extending that timer puts more pressure on the xenos, and so how defensive you want marines to be able to be should be carefully considered.

    Final thought: in general squad engineer is pretty boring, same with CT. It would be great if marines started with a really basic FOB and can choose to do side projects around the map or reinforce the base, or maybe some points on the map where marines can hold and grab material from like a mine to send back up to shipside for credits/materials. Cool things to do that if not done won't doom the marines. Sorry CTs, I don't have any ideas for you.

    EDIT:
    I would like to add that for about 20 minutes after marines retreat the xenos do get more powerful and it is beneficial for marines to resupply and go out again before that. Queen will get a chance to re-ovi and max evo on all xenos, maxing out in like 15 minutes. Drones/hivelords will build up the map and more around FOB. Emergency tunnels will be constructed. Pylons erected. Then the queen will re-join the fight and xenos will get creative in poking your base. After that point is when the shananagans start and xenos are really on a timer.
    Last edited by Master Havoc; 12-16-2021 at 04:44 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Havoc View Post
    Just so you know, I am a xeno main and am probably biased towards xenos.

    That said, my first thought on FOBs is that I agree that the cades themselves don't seem to do enough. Marines often have to back up a few squares from the actual barricades, along with as mentioned, trappers pound cades to oblivion. Now you can constantly snipe the trapper, but it can still get some hits in and retreat to heal and repeat. Honestly, outside of cade sieges, trapper sucks too. I would rather just not have a trapper class. Boiler does a good enough job creating a period of smoke that if the marines don't use explosives, overreaction with bullets, etc the wall can break. More teamwork oriented at least. Second, I think brute, and ONLY brute attacks should be blocked by the barricades. Give marines a break from bleed, fractures, etc. Xenos still need to be able to fight and chase marines away from the wall or disable turrets that are too up front, so that's where spitters, boilers, and spitting prae can shine.

    My second thought is the troubles that come with giving marines too much turtle power is also very, very harmful to the balance of the game. It might be easier to understand by going to the extremes so let me start with that. Let's say marines have max possible defense. They are invulnerable inside the FOB and the walls just about can never break. The machine guns/turrets are at least dangerous for xenos to be around. The aliens are currently strong, and the marines are refusing to leave the FOB. In this scenario, some of the things that are going on in my mind:
    -Xenos are going to lose some silly sisters to machine gun fire, turrets, stun weapons, or camping specs. On the other hand marines are highly unlikely (or in this case impossible) to lose any marines. The longer this siege goes on, the more xenos than marines will die.
    -The battlefield is no longer fluid, and so mortars, CAS, and OBs have way better understanding of where to fire to be as close to the front lines without hurting the marines. All of a sudden all support becomes way more effective at killing xenos. Again, longer the siege goes on, the more xenos than marines will die.
    -As time goes on, marines who have permad before the siege will leave, and new marines will show up to the server. Slowly the marines will be replenished. Xeno larva passively remains unchanged.
    -As time goes on, marines supplies will both be higher and lower depending on the items. More rockets from OT will show up, more OB will come, more specialist ammo will be bought, and yet medical (or not in this case, but generally yes) and normal ammo will slowly drain. Those high explosive/spec ammo pieces will surely lead to more xeno deaths, but at the same time if it got long enough the marines would lose all ability to use normal guns. Maybe supply can keep up, hard to say. Adjusting the scenario to have less defenses, and what this bullet point is trying to get at: I am actually not sure if marines will...for lack of words, be richer or poorer for taking on defensive tactics. Longer games might lead to new discoveries on this front.
    -Marines have research while the xenos don't. At some point stims will come out and marines will all be the super marines with super speed and cannot be stunned. If lucky automatic bone mending too.

    All the above on the second thought to conclude: xenos are on a timer. Marines are not. Extending that timer puts more pressure on the xenos, and so how defensive you want marines to be able to be should be carefully considered.

    Final thought: in general squad engineer is pretty boring, same with CT. It would be great if marines started with a really basic FOB and can choose to do side projects around the map or reinforce the base, or maybe some points on the map where marines can hold and grab material from like a mine to send back up to shipside for credits/materials. Cool things to do that if not done won't doom the marines. Sorry CTs, I don't have any ideas for you.

    EDIT:
    I would like to add that for about 20 minutes after marines retreat the xenos do get more powerful and it is beneficial for marines to resupply and go out again before that. Queen will get a chance to re-ovi and max evo on all xenos, maxing out in like 15 minutes. Drones/hivelords will build up the map and more around FOB. Emergency tunnels will be constructed. Pylons erected. Then the queen will re-join the fight and xenos will get creative in poking your base. After that point is when the shananagans start and xenos are really on a timer.
    If only there would be a way that xenos passively get stronger over time. Like I don't know they mature or something, start out as squishy young one and over time get stronger.. That would make impossible to camp LZ as they are weak, it would force shifting battle zones as they are always changing in strength and it would force marines to think and push out of LZ as the enemy is getting stronger by the minute. As a side effect it would make fun survivor gameplay also from both sides.

    Too bad we don't have anything like this weird 'maturity' idea. If only...

  10. #20
    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightbearetard View Post
    If only there would be a way that xenos passively get stronger over time. Like I don't know they mature or something, start out as squishy young one and over time get stronger.. That would make impossible to camp LZ as they are weak, it would force shifting battle zones as they are always changing in strength and it would force marines to think and push out of LZ as the enemy is getting stronger by the minute. As a side effect it would make fun survivor gameplay also from both sides.

    Too bad we don't have anything like this weird 'maturity' idea. If only...
    Maturity brings more bad to the table, than it fixes.

    Too bad we never had anything like this weird "maturity" idea. If only we knew what bad can come from it...
    Like marine metarushes each round. Like benos cavehugging each round. Like benos crying (rightfully so) that their death is so punishing and they have to wait a lot. Like benos AFKing in hive till they are elder, or ancient. Like Ancient benos being OP. Like FoBs being not even attacked unless benos hit that 2/3 of ancient on everything, so then they demolish it in 3 minutes.

    Its almost like lack of maturity fixed those problems and bringing it back would make them appear again.
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