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Thread: dreven - 2, 3, 4, 5, 10

  1. #1
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    dreven - 2, 3, 4, 5, 10

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    TheFlyingFlail

    Date of Incident
    September 1, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Pal Johnson

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    dreven

    Accused Character Name
    Wamakahana Windhealer

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    11am EST

    What rule(s) were broken:
    2, 3, 4, 5, 10

    Description of the incident:
    In short, round start I wake up windhealer comes to my office and asks for rubber bullets. I say now as per rules rubber bullets are for training only. They can cause unnecessary FF incidents due to the nature of how rubber bullets work in the game. Currently, there is a bug involving the SEA Training vendor that allows anyone regardless of access to easily bypass it and acquire rubber bullets. Knowing this I grab the vendor and toss it down ARSR. I wanted to prevent a mechanical exploit with the vendor.

    Windhealer trespasses into my office round start when I wake up and caught int he act begins to ask if I can give him rubber bullets. I say now. He says he is going to hunt rats and I still tell him no. He leaves A short while later Windhealer comes to my office with another MT and begins harassing me and calling me names. Not long after as im writing fax to HC about the issue of the defective sea vendor Windhealer comes into my office with a bottle and chases me down maintenance. I attempt to flash him but he has welder goggles on. He proceeds to bottle me, Recommends i carry a bottle because its non-lethal , zip tie me and then parades me around engineering attempting to sell me to other maintenance technicians in the area. Windhealer begins to claim that he is a slave trader and is attempting to sell me. He said he was running out of ideas and decided to sell me as a slave to whomever would want to buy me. Would you like to buy a SEA and ETC. By this point I ahelp. Windhealer then strips me of command radio and uniform to prevent people from tracking me with the suit sensors. After a while of taking me around the ship he leaves me in research saying I am free to go now.



    Rule 2: Roleplay

    - I would argue there is no absolute reason for Windhealer in RP standards to have a valid reason to bottle me over the head at round start. Up until that point, the only talk I had with him was about rubber bullets. He then after leaving proceeds to gather materials to kidnapping me such as manufacturing zipties and acquiring a bottle. This is quite literally round start shinanigans and if this was some random marine doing the same thing they would have gotten banned at that point.

    Rule 3: Community Expectations

    - By this point as CO and the many reports, Windhealer should have a in-depth understanding of what ML and community expectations are on the server. As CO he represents the community and to conduct himself in this kind of manner is unacceptable given the current circumstances at play. SEAs are quite literally there to help people on the ship and he thought it was appropriate to hit me over the head with a bottle and kidnapped me for not giving him rubber bullets which is against the rules. Any and all gear issued to SEA is strictly prohibited to be given to people as per Mentor Overseers and mentor guideline rulings.

    Rule 4. No griefing

    - Windhealer griefed me by essentially bottling me over the head and kidnapping me for no valid gameplay reason. I was stripped of my clothing, communication devices, and paraded around the lower engineering halls like an idiot. His actions certainly ruined the round for me as I was planning to take time and play SEA for the little time I have given that I returned to school at the university. Had this happened when I wasn't I might have rolled with it but even then I would have given strong consideration to ahelping and reporting.

    Rule 5. Mechanical Exploits

    - SEA Training vendor is bug and everyone knows it. Windhealers knowingly attempted to exploit a weakness in the code which is being patched soon to acquire rubber bullets for whatever round start shinanigans he had planned for the round.

    Rule 6. No Metagaming or Metacommunication

    - Again breaking into my office round start to acquire rubber bullets for his own purpose. He was standing next to the machine ready to hack into it had I not arrived when I did. He used his skills to willing acquire illegal gear that he dam well knows can cause a lot of trouble very quickly. Rubber bullets are not even issued to riot ert. The only reason why they were given to SEA was to train new recruits and not to serve as suede laser tag / robust MPs. He is metagaming by round start breaking into my office to steal rubber bullets.

    Rule 10. Lethal Force
    - Windhealer utilized lethal force on a person who did no such actions to endanger his life. He bottled smashed me in my office which will incapacitate a person and cause them to bleed out should it not be treated. "Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fistfight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight." Windhealer as stated earlier attacked me with a considerable amount of force without I [pal johnson] doing anything to initiate any kind of confrontation that would require him to defend himself in such a manner.



    Final Remarks
    - I just wanted to get on and relax in CM13 for a bit. Since entering the master's program to get my degree I haven't had alot of time to play. I wanted to spend the round relaxed, talking to people, and do a bit of helping around the ship aswell as work on other MRs I am wanting to advance. I haven't got alot of time to spare and to have this just happened does upset me a bit. I don't normally get upset at this because its just a game at the end and we could resolve issues in IC but what occurred today is unacceptable especially from a highly regarded member of the community.

    This situation and the given circumstances I cannot just resolve IC and thus I wrote this player report. Time and time again situations like this have arisen with similar people and unless an example is made I am afraid not much will be done to improve the quality of the server in regards to Roleplay Standards should situations like this be commonplace.

    COs when and when not in the Role are held to higher expectations in the community given their status and windhealers actions today demonstrate that he has yet to understand what qualifies as roleplay and what is griefing which is rather concerning for a person like a whitelisted individual is windhealer who holds and an immense amount of influences across the server.

    To round start break into SEA office, attempt to steal rubber bullets (against rules), then when rejected go out of his way to grab cable coil to make zip-tie cuffs, acquire liquor bottle, equip welder goggles to prevent flashing, and proceed to kidnap someone like SEA is unacceptable.


    Finally, to @ me on discord and to call my MRs to hotfix bugs shit MRs is well quite frankly in poor taste given the situation. Just because you don't like an MR doesn't mean you have to call it shit on the public forum. If you have an issue debate it and elaborate why it should be changed or reconsidered. This is harassment at this point. I have little time out of the day as is and I try to contribute to the game in whatever way I can whether its coding or spending time training a new recruit how to play the game in the hopes that he survives the operation. I have spent countless hours just trying to help and to hear this from a community member like him is disheartening, to say the least.

    Screenshots of IG. I also have a video of it but its mainly me being paraded around engineering. If you need it I shall provide it.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...32/unknown.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...28/unknown.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...34/unknown.png

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Reffer to player report

    How you would punish the accused:
    Heavy Warning and Job Ban From MT

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    You tried to flash me first when I was just running around at you, bottling you once to stun is within escalation. Breaking ML is not OOC nor is it metagaming. I was boinked over kidnapping you and released you in like 5 minutes, as I was going to go try some RP with the CL, so I apologize for that. But you were the one who left wordlessly and cryoed immediately after. Bottle smashing is not a lethal, I did not spam bottle you it caused a minor amount of brute damage. The equivalent of being punched a few times. Its not a bug that the vendor can be hacked, its an oversight.

    I think the MR is dumb because its just removing an avenue of non lethals from the ship, but I dont know why this has anything to do with the report. Sorry if my wording on it was a bit rude I didn't mean it as a personal attack. Its not metagaming to break into places and steal stuff, if anything its metagaming that you immediatly put the vendor down the ASRS pad so people can't get to it. The DM was because I thought that you thought the vendors could just be accessed by anyone, but later realized you had to clip the wire like any other vendor.

    This is all IC that you've taken to a report.

  3. #3
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    "You tried to flash me first when I was just running around at you, bottling you once to stun is within escalation."

    - You entered my office and pulled out a bottle after a brief comment. I ran into maintenance to avoid any kind of confrontation and when you followed me in then I began flashing you by which point you had your welding goggles down. I didn't even want to escalate things and would have preferred to avoid any conflict whatsoever. You cannot justify the use of bottling someone when I presented no threat to you nor did I use any lethal force that would equal hitting someone over the head over the bottle. I posed no credible threat to you yet you went out of your way to make zip-tie cuffs and acquire a liquor bottle with full intentions to kidnap me over not giving you rubber bullets. I was writing a fax when you barged in with the bottle for christ's sake.

    "I was boinked over kidnapping you and released you in like 5 minutes, as I was going to go try some RP with the CL, so I apologize for that. "

    - I would believe you but when you go on discord and says stuff like this picture down below then I refuse to believe this is genuine and in fact a thinly veiled way to discredit me and the validity of the report on a public forum without anything in the way of elaborating on the situation you yourself created. If you even knew me and the roles I played you would know I main Survivors, PFC, and SEA. That's it. Your personal attack will not stand no matter how petty it may be.

    dreven.jpg

    "Its not metagaming to break into places and steal stuff, if anything its metagaming that you immediately put the vendor down the ASRS pad so people can't get to it. "

    - Its true that its not metagaming to break into a place and steal stuff but it was at round start and the round prior when I late joined I did the exact same thing. There was no complaints there when I did the exact same thing in front of you when you were jailbreaking and intending to use it against mps. To be fair that situation was resolved IC. Why else would you have wanted to go into my office and steal rubber bullets? For what purpose would you have a need for such an item that is so restrictive in nature that not even riot police ERT could have it?

    - I threw away the vendor because of a known bug. You even acknowledged it yourself that this isn't supposed to happen with the vendor. I even reached out to thesoldier to clarify the situation and he himself said the same thing. The current staff protocol is to delete the vendor round start to avoid any potential situations that might arise from the use of rubber bullets on the ship. Rubber bullets were only given to SEA after extensive lobby for the sole purpose of training new people of the server and that's it.

    unknown.png

    "But you were the one who left wordlessly and cryoed immediately after."

    -As I mentioned earlier, I had responsibilities beyond CM13. My intentions were to stay for another 20min or so then cryo. However once this mess happened I decided I needed to cryo when I get the chance too because I need to report the incident while it was fresh and #2 to go to sleep, go to the gym, and fix rebase the MR involving the rubber bullets at the request of ephy to get it merged as the MR has already been approved. Your shinanigans that you are known for taking way longer than 20min especially if you want it all to be resolved IC. My intentions for the round are simple and it was to assist any new players who need help then cryo if there is none after 20min. You forced me into this terrible RP scenario you created that you yourself said during the round was because you were running out of ideas. I do not want to be forced to interact or RP with any person given the current circumstances of the report. This is not RP this is griefing. To take the most experienced player whose sole duty is to train people aboard the ship because you suddenly decide to be a slave trader halfway through the confrontation is just poor RP and borderline griefing. RP is meant to have a development to make things more enjoyable. This was just escalated so quickly for no goddam reason what so ever and I nor other plays should have to sit through this.


    "This is all IC that you've taken to a report."

    - This is not an IC issue. The minute you decided to kidnap people more specifically SEA this becomes an OOC issue. To take me (SEA) out of circulation from the beginning of the round with such poor excuses of doing so you have deprived the ship of one of the most knowledgeable people around that could help the ship in any capacity. You deprived whatever new player of a mentor who could have walked them through the steps of what it could be a marine and to a lesser extend a player playing xeno from the first time. When you do things like this to SEA in effect you do this to all the players on the ship especially those who are new to the server. I would argue this would constitute a major round disruption, especially for the new players. The timing of the incident as well did not help either as this would be round shenanigans which again is also a bannable offense.

    round_start.jpg
    Last edited by TheFlyingFlail; 09-02-2021 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    if devs have decreed the vendor as a bug, even though it has the same hackable UI as every other vendor then i'll take the L on this. It feels alot more like an oversight to me, but I didn't know at the time as it was only the round before I even realized their was such a vendor around. Your being ridiculously over dramatic, you are not "the most experienced player on the ship" and you were taken out for a few minutes, your masters program has nothing to do with anything and your clearly trying to rack up some kind of sympathy points with this idea of "stealing new players chance to get training". Did you even try to ahelp about it in game? If you LOOC'd me I would have stopped immediately, sounds like you just got really mad over something not going your way and jumped right to an unnecessary report.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreven View Post
    if devs have decreed the vendor as a bug, even though it has the same hackable UI as every other vendor then i'll take the L on this. It feels alot more like an oversight to me, but I didn't know at the time as it was only the round before I even realized their was such a vendor around. Your being ridiculously over dramatic, you are not "the most experienced player on the ship" and you were taken out for a few minutes, your master's program has nothing to do with anything and your clearly trying to rack up some kind of sympathy points with this idea of "stealing new players chance to get training". Did you even try to ahelp with it in-game? If you LOOC'd me I would have stopped immediately, sounds like you just got really mad over something not going your way and jumped right to an unnecessary report.
    I Ahelped the situation and recorded the ordeal after I got tied up. I would have recorded earlier had I known this would happen. We will just have to wait for the logs to see what's going on. As per the comments about my education I would say its relevant because you asked me why I cryoed shortly after. The explanation was given and if you found the response unsatisfactory then that is fine. We don't have to agree on anything. I don't believe resolving this in LOOC would have resolved the main issue at hand as I felt too much had gone on in the short period of time for me to warrant resolving in that way. I was essentially kidnapped for not giving you rubber bullets at round start, stripped of my headset, paraded around lower engineering as you attempted to sell me to anyone as a slave, then stripped me of any ability to communicate and resolve this issue IC. You in your own actions removed any agency I had during that round and that is what I take offense to.

    " your clearly trying to rack up some kind of sympathy points with this idea of "stealing new players chance to get training".

    - "The most important job for an SEA is to train the new boots fresh out of cryogenics." There is a reason why SEA office is at cryo room. We are there first and foremost to help new recruits in the server by giving them the training necessary to function on the server. To have my primary role on the ship stripped away from me over this petty disagreement about not giving you rubber bullets is rather atrocious.

    "you are not "the most experienced player on the ship" and you were taken out for a few minutes,"

    - SEAs are quite literally one of the most experienced people on the ship. It also appears that you have misquoted me as I never claimed to be the most experienced person on the ship, especially at the time. " To take me (SEA) out of circulation from the beginning of the round with such poor excuses of doing so you have deprived the ship of one of the most knowledgeable people around that could help the ship in any capacity." In the context of " To take the most experienced player whose sole duty is to train people aboard the ship" then yes but that is only in relation too as I said in the quote is for the training of new recruits.

    "If you LOOC'd me I would have stopped immediately, sounds like you just got really mad over something not going your way and jumped right to an unnecessary report."

    - I would say I am indeed frustrated with the situation at hand. I'm going about my business trying to resolve an issue with buggy vendors and trying to relax for the round and train new recruits when suddenly I am kidnapped for denying you rubber bullets. Would you not be had you been in my shoes?

    "Your being ridiculously over dramatic,"

    - The escalation of the situation that took place was certainly overly dramatic. If my retelling the events that took place during the round brings pause to when hearing it from another perspective then I would encourage you to interact more with the people whom are often found on the other end of the stick of your RP shinanigans and see how things can be genuinely improved rp wise. I would like to remind you that this entire situation was of your own doing as I had no intentions of interacting with you as I have stated previously. After being denied rubber bullets you harrased me over the issue IC then proceed to procure the items necessary to kidnap me (liquor bottle, zip tie cuffs, and welder goggles) then come into the office comment about the vendor issue again and proceed to beat me with the bottle over the head in maitnance after I attempted to flee the areas as to advert any possibl

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Alright well I apologise for derailing your round then it was not my intention to ruin it, I never kidnap people for more than a few minutes and after the CL wasn't in, I was going to try handing you off to research and say you were infected with a deadly virus or something. Still, using a single bottle stun is not escalating to lethals but whatever. Wait for staff logs and then the call, next.

  7. #7
    Senior Administrator and Mentor Overseer
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    ill be getting logs in the next 1-2 days

    edit: Running a bit late, apologies.
    Last edited by ito726; 09-05-2021 at 03:02 AM. Reason: update
    Trial Moderator: 2021-06-13 --- 2021-07-04
    Moderator: 2021-07-04 --- 2021-10-02
    Investigator: 2021-07-21 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Trainer: 2021-08-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Discord Staff: 2021-09-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Senior Moderator: 2021-10-02 --- xxxx-xx-xx

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    Posted at request of ITO. Video is complete and does not show what initially happened during the main confrontation. This only shows the part after I was captured and paraded around engineering and etc. I didn't record earlier because like I said I wasn't expecting anything to happen that round and didn't record. I should have recorded earlier as it would clear up a lot of ambiguous story telling from earlier
    Last edited by TheFlyingFlail; 09-04-2021 at 04:11 AM.

  9. #9
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    Mod suggested that there are aspects of this PR that are not handled in game, and thus warrant a PR. Any ahelps related to this case were DMed to management, both regarding the vendor and regarding the kidnapping. For the portion included, I have left out a bit of dialogue by SEA Pal with random people about the vendor/bullets as the suggestion/accusation of metagaming by pal was dealt with in the round. Beyond that, the logs should be complete for both people, but what others have said was left out.

    Windhealer - White.
    SEA pal - Dark red.
    Others - Cyan


    start of game, and start of the round
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Windhealer attempts to get rubber and is shut down
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Pal takes care of the vendor and windhealer finds out
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Windhealer being annoyed that the pad was thrown away, conspires to mug the sea instead, and first instance of trying to include others in this conflict. Notable due to the round-start shenanigans accusation.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Wind and Pal discuss why bullets aren't handed out
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Both Windhealer and pal contact HC. Windhealer sometime in this time-frame acquires the gear to kidnap.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Windhealer is looking for the sea. Pal is talking to someone about why they cant handout rubber bullets but it was not included.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Windhealer finds the SEA and the SEA flashes in his office. They seem to also be trying to expand the conflict and recruit more people.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    SEA runs and flashes wind again, this time stunning him too inside maints.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Windhealer manages to bottle SEA back in his office. And proceeds to cuff him.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    First time Pal attempts to involve other players in this. Windhealer has been trying for a while now.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Windhealer depriving the SEA of comms. The reason for this seems to be so they cant call for help primarily, rather than griefing them, by having the SEA not be able to hear calls for help. The last call on command comms would not have been heard by anyone other than Windhealer.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Windhealer suggesting that the rubber bullets are a factor in this.
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Windhealer decides to RP this out as a Slave Trader. The wait is where the vid starts. Further logs were not induced as they seem redundant given that a vid exists for that part of the events.

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    This bit would not be visible in the vid, so included explicitly. Windhealer releases the SEA after bwoinked regarding their kidnapping, but not told to release them. They also leave the sea alone after this.
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by ito726; 09-06-2021 at 05:44 AM. Reason: typo
    Trial Moderator: 2021-06-13 --- 2021-07-04
    Moderator: 2021-07-04 --- 2021-10-02
    Investigator: 2021-07-21 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Trainer: 2021-08-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Discord Staff: 2021-09-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Senior Moderator: 2021-10-02 --- xxxx-xx-xx

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    yeah as soon as I realized the SEA was OOC unhappy about it I released him, all up Pals round was effected for no more than 5 minutes and if he LOOC'd me to begin with I wouldn't have engaged at all. As far as escalation goes Im pretty sure I followed it and to say that a single bottle stun is "going right to lethals" is very much of a stretch, I apologize for being aggressive in the rp but I think a report and suggested job ban is a vastly overblown reaction to what amounts to 5 minutes of ingame shenanigans. From now on I check with people in LOOC before committing to any RP like this, as I did with a MP player yesterday.

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