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Thread: MP Rework

  1. #1
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    MP Rework

    Hello, it's me again! River Potemkin. Many of you hate me for being a shit MP! Allow me to provide my input on what could be best changed about the department.

    1) No OOC protection: Marines should not be punished for fucking with MPs except by the MPs themselves, unless it gets to the point of literal murder. Otherwise what is the point of our department?

    2) Extend our ability to pardon: CMP should be allowed to pardon everything besides capital crimes. Believe it or not, I don't want you in my brig just for calling the CO a big gay either.

    3) Allow us to decline to arrest people: You know all those times I flashbanged the DS? The majority of them stemmed from being directly ordered by an officer to go do an arrest on the dropship, not me going to the dropship of my own accord. We currently have no right to decline an arrest if anyone with a commission orders it, even if it's a fraudulent arrest or for very petty reasons. If a CMP is present, they should be able to declare that arresting somebody would cause more trouble than it's worth. To override this, the CO or aCO should have to fax High Command to get the Provost Marshal to order the arrest.

    4) Harsher punishment of MPs who do stupid shit: Job bans should be more frequent, requiring an explanation of what the proper way to handle the situation would have been before they are removed. I am well aware this would have applied to me at several points in the past, but here's the thing, it SHOULD have. Did I eventually learn that flashbanging the front line is not appropriate? Yes, but I should have learned faster.

    5) Require people to have played longer as an SL, SO, PO, in Req, and as an MT before joining as an MP: This will help MPs understand the affects of their actions on various departments better and have a firm understanding of how the ship flows and the nature of different departments before fucking with them. Four hours in each role should be the minimum.

    6) Harsher punishment for MPs breaking orders: When I say "I want a smooth op today so don't go arresting people for stupid shit" I inevitably find that somebody is in jail for calling an MP gay and has accumulated charges of assault and resisting arrest. Can't I just let them go? No, I can't. The CMP can't pardon major crimes.

    7) An announcement system for the MPs: Instead of us just getting attacked when we're seen arresting somebody because people do not understand why it's occurring, let us make a command announcement for the sole purpose of explaining why an arrest will take place. Even with my reputation for being a shitler, people usually let me arrest people once the reasons have been explained unless it is a stupid arrest. I was once attacked for arresting somebody who had decapitated another marine with a machete.

    8) Require officers to abstain from encouraging the Marines to be unruly over public coms: It is difficult to get an officer's commission. One would not risk it by saying things like "If I see you on my dropship I will shoot you".

    9) This one is important so I'll say it again, NO OOC PROTECTIONS: We should not be immune from getting fucked with. This is a penal ship after all, and most of the Marines are criminals. Only officers should be required to refrain from fucking with us in an illegal manner.

    10) Higher RP standard for MPs: Similar to the CO and CL, we should be expected to actually act like MPs. I've seen people who admit they "Just play MP to break the law and cause trouble" and that is a direct quote.

    That's all.

  2. #2
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    This honestly feels like a rant then anything else.

    1: understandable.

    2: the only laws that a CMP is required to arrest for are Major Crimes, as a CMP has the authority to Force a NJP instead of arrest for Minor Crimes. An Alternative to giving CMP's Pardoning Power is to rewrite which laws are Minor or Major.

    3: sounds like a lack of understanding of the Procedure for a Officer Requested Arrest, the moment that you Arrest the Marine, you are beginning an Investigation into whether they are guilty or not, similar too (and possibly identical) to the Appeals process. Sometime within a 10 minute deadline of the Investigation, you determine guilt or innocence. If the Marine is Innocent of all charges, then you MAY Charge the Officer whom ordered that Arrest with Prevarication. You are insinuating that you are forced to Arrest people Fraudulently, then prove it and arrest the Officer. And Again, the CMP and CO have the authority to force a NJP for minor crimes, even Officer Requested Ones.
    Edit: (Correction, the differences between the Officer Arrest Investigation and an Appeal Investigation, is that no new crimes may be charged during an Appeal, where as the Officer Arrest Investigation may establish crimes to be charged with.)

    4: Agreed, the staff need to moderate MPs appropriately.

    5: The idea has merit though the knowledge of how your actions affect a department does not supersede your job and carrying out your duties.

    6: need to define "stupid shit" as major crimes "in theory" dont fall under that. Likewise you as a CMP can arrest the MP for Neglect of Duty, so I dont see the issue.

    7: people shouldnt be lynching MPs, and regardless, those lynching MPs probably dont care about the reasoning of the Arrest. Follow the Arrest Procedure:
    "Inform the Suspect he is under arrest.
    Take down the Suspect if he resists and securely restrain him.
    Move the Suspect to the Brig.
    Inform the Suspect of his Charges before the brig timer starts.
    Inform the Suspect he may file an appeal should he wish so."

    8: RP standards? Need context?

    9: see 1

    10: fucking Ahelp/tell staff, bruh.
    Last edited by Skimmy2; 09-15-2021 at 10:19 PM.

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    1. Marines step in, gets AOE flashed, or flashbanged and ends up either someone speaking in MOOC about how "do not interfere with arrests" or them getting lynched and having a mod pull up logs and or ahelps from the MP and having to do a like 10 minute investigation.

    2. CMP can pardon, it's called an appeal. The CO retains this ability, they have to hear the appeal out before pardoning (due to mass pardoning incidents from the CO). Although if you got yourself one of those CMPs, no chance they'll even pardon you for breaking a window.

    3. You can ignore minor crimes but not officer orders. The MPs that mass flash bang the DS don't use common sense, you can delay an arrest order to a certain extent, but not ruin a whole round cause "muh boss told me so"

    4. You can do everything right, but still be wrong.

    5. Ain't really gonna change anything if they're just as bad in other departments. (silent SL, CAS PO not knowing how to fire mission but instead hits on middle target button, SO = live stream viewer and or mass insubordination button presser, land of cargonia, really, for MT?

    6. You can do everything right, but still be wrong.

    7. Yeah, cause that's not gonna notify more people to hop on the bandwagon.

    8. That wouldn't instigate a situation. Stealing the unga juice would. Learn the difference between petty insults and threats, compared to actual instigation.

    9. OOC protection is what stopping me from mass disarming, stripped, handcuffed, locked in a locker, and weleded shut, when you run out of your AOE equipment.

    10.You can do everything right, but still be wrong.

    No amount of external changes can change the human mentality...
    No amount of dev changes, rules, and or personnel can change it...


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackingFlack View Post
    Hello, it's me again! River Potemkin. Many of you hate me for being a shit MP! Allow me to provide my input on what could be best changed about the department.

    1) No OOC protection: Marines should not be punished for fucking with MPs except by the MPs themselves, unless it gets to the point of literal murder. Otherwise what is the point of our department?

    2) Extend our ability to pardon: CMP should be allowed to pardon everything besides capital crimes. Believe it or not, I don't want you in my brig just for calling the CO a big gay either.

    3) Allow us to decline to arrest people: You know all those times I flashbanged the DS? The majority of them stemmed from being directly ordered by an officer to go do an arrest on the dropship, not me going to the dropship of my own accord. We currently have no right to decline an arrest if anyone with a commission orders it, even if it's a fraudulent arrest or for very petty reasons. If a CMP is present, they should be able to declare that arresting somebody would cause more trouble than it's worth. To override this, the CO or aCO should have to fax High Command to get the Provost Marshal to order the arrest.

    4) Harsher punishment of MPs who do stupid shit: Job bans should be more frequent, requiring an explanation of what the proper way to handle the situation would have been before they are removed. I am well aware this would have applied to me at several points in the past, but here's the thing, it SHOULD have. Did I eventually learn that flashbanging the front line is not appropriate? Yes, but I should have learned faster.

    5) Require people to have played longer as an SL, SO, PO, in Req, and as an MT before joining as an MP: This will help MPs understand the affects of their actions on various departments better and have a firm understanding of how the ship flows and the nature of different departments before fucking with them. Four hours in each role should be the minimum.

    6) Harsher punishment for MPs breaking orders: When I say "I want a smooth op today so don't go arresting people for stupid shit" I inevitably find that somebody is in jail for calling an MP gay and has accumulated charges of assault and resisting arrest. Can't I just let them go? No, I can't. The CMP can't pardon major crimes.

    7) An announcement system for the MPs: Instead of us just getting attacked when we're seen arresting somebody because people do not understand why it's occurring, let us make a command announcement for the sole purpose of explaining why an arrest will take place. Even with my reputation for being a shitler, people usually let me arrest people once the reasons have been explained unless it is a stupid arrest. I was once attacked for arresting somebody who had decapitated another marine with a machete.

    8) Require officers to abstain from encouraging the Marines to be unruly over public coms: It is difficult to get an officer's commission. One would not risk it by saying things like "If I see you on my dropship I will shoot you".

    9) This one is important so I'll say it again, NO OOC PROTECTIONS: We should not be immune from getting fucked with. This is a penal ship after all, and most of the Marines are criminals. Only officers should be required to refrain from fucking with us in an illegal manner.

    10) Higher RP standard for MPs: Similar to the CO and CL, we should be expected to actually act like MPs. I've seen people who admit they "Just play MP to break the law and cause trouble" and that is a direct quote.

    That's all.
    There is an internal discussion that is occurring which has 3 MP mains (of varying styles, myself included), 3 unga bungas (of varying styles), and a few other individuals hashing out a strategy going forward. The things suggested in both discord and the forums are being examined, discussed and evaluated and things have been extremely civil, polite, and productive.

    That being said, any changes which come will likely also go under a test period.


    On to addressing your suggestions, not everyone is aware that many suggestions have been part of previous iterations of marine law and MPs many years ago, this doesn't completely discount the suggestions as the game has changed over the years in certain ways, but in many areas it is much the same, so we have to take them with a pinch of salt.

    1) OOC protection is not popular for either side, it originally came across many years ago during a time that MPs were pretty weak and both the rules and environment of CM at that specific time resulted in a lot of large scale round altering behaviour, including mutinies nearly every round which sucked for a chunk of the playerbase, especially Xenomorphs who barely got a round. MP OOC protections can have a place in CM, at least for brief periods such as a week or two (During situations such as, major bugs with equipment/tests, or if the rounds become de-railed as previously mentioned on a near roundly basis) Overall, as many of you know, I am against them as a whole and prefer IC consequences for IC actions.

    2) CMP pardoning is extremely unlikely to happening, it took a long time to get the CO whitelist to areas with rigorous rules and conditions for pardonings and we still have issues. As previously noted, minor laws can be ignored as CMP and most major laws are actually more serious and should generally be actioned upon. We also had issues in the past when CMPs had a similar ability to this where people would "pardon" their friends as an MP or pardon people due to the role they played, which embolded more LRP behaviour from certain roles (Specs realising they couldn't be arrested made for some real dumb situations)

    3) Much similar to prior situation this is open to abuse, if an officer orders an arrest (Which isn't remotely that common), it should be carried out and you can hash out the details later. If people decide to mob an MP who is detaining someone who is on the DS, they made the choice to interfere and this will have a reaction (High risk, high reward - It may be worth saving your buddy from the MPs, but is it worth saving the random marine who is actually being a bit of an idiot?)

    4) This is a bit hyperbolic, for example, I am extremely harsh ICly and OOCly to people who do stupid shit as an MP. Outright abuse gets shutdown very fast, innocent mistakes are usually noted and the player learns from it (so no ban is neede) and stuff like MPs breaking/bending ML during roleplayed situations (Like when CMP Grub Dunkers was torturing the CMO in the brig while also breaking SoP) may be allowed in a case by case basis depending if the roleplay/scenario is good (Always ahelp first please though)

    5) MP already has a decent time-cap on it and there is a MR for an MP cadet (training role) which will negate this issue.

    6) You can't order someone not to do their job, this was abused painfully once upon a time and safeguards are in place for it. You can order NJPs case by case however as CO/CMP for Minor crimes.

    7) A decent idea, I always thought CMP/Warden should have a handheld terminal which allows them to mess around with records on the fly, announce and change alert levels.

    8) This is likely being implemented by an IC law.

    9) Same as before. Also penal ship is kinda just head-lore (and basing stuff off our own lore causes issues as it changes every year)

    10) Part of me wants to agree with this, the other half of me actually likes it when (occasionally) you can have a goofy round. So, yeah, we should try aim to be a high standard of roleplay but as previously stated with the Grub Dunkers torture case, I dont mind goofy stuff IF its roleplayed well and it's not super common.


    Also, the MP equipment is pretty trash right now, Taser/flash are the only decent standard tools and flashbang is an emergency usage tool) which historically has led to OOC protections time and time again in the past. If you want more IC is IC stuff, allowing MPs to actually have a chance with a small group of marines without being a try-hard equipment wise(Which is required right now)
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

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