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Thread: Yellows - Rule 4. No griefing

  1. #1
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    Yellows - Rule 4. No griefing

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    GoldenDarkness55
    Date of Incident
    September 17, 2021
    Your Character Name?
    Oliver 'Unhinged' Door
    Their BYOND Key
    Podrick Equus
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    20:30 CT
    Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Preserve the RP and enjoyment of the server
    Enforcement of the rules
    2. Investigate the situation
    4. Investigate the player's history
    Description of the incident
    Yellows, a freshly unbanned prime queen decided to spend the round without growing an ovipositor. Sure, combat queening is allowed, but the player specifically went out of his way to never grow an ovipositor aside from roundstart - at one point standing perfectly still in a point far away from the front for 5+ minutes. Hasnt ovi'd during the hijack phase either, opting instead to stand still in the dropship cockpit, again.

    Purposefully keeping his entire hive stuck at T1 is not only griefing but also incredibly LRP and I believe the sort of shenanigan the player has been jobbanned (twice?) for. What difference is there between ordering your players not to evolve (not allowed) and intentionally preventing them from doing so by adamantly refusing to ovi. In a similar vein, would it be fine if CO (whos not allowed to enforce specific loadouts) went and disposaled every copy of a weapon he doesnt want to see in a round, preventing marines from using it?

    Woulda been a player report, but since it was ahelped in game and deemed an IC issue for some reason, has to go into this section.
    Evidence
    https://i.imgur.com/LcC4jZh.png Hive numbers and slots at hijack

    https://streamable.com/atdojn queen standing still in caves

    https://streamable.com/5hk15u standing around on the ship
    How you would punish the accused
    Make sure TAdmin knows definiton of grief and RP standards and jban yellows again, since he clearly hasnt improved.

  2. #2
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    As a frequent queen player I have to say I do not believe this is griefing or "incredibly LRP". I would be very hesitant to impose such a type of situation keeping all the xenos stuck in t1 because I realize its very unconventional. The situation Yellows has created is very risky as if the t1's were to constantly die without t3 support and the hive would lose, then I would consider it griefing. As having t3's or t2's is not a requirement for the hive to survive everything about this should be fine. Instead of grief and being against RP the queen is revolutionizing available strategies and could be a visionary for future developments.

  3. #3
    Senior Administrator and Mentor Overseer
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    Seeing as i was one of the 2 mods that had meaningful interpretations in this round with yellows, i think i need to be in the accused section as well. I have given yellows the go ahead to deovie relatively early, and when they gave their reasoning in the round later on i went as asked for clarification form the big boys, which said yeah its cool to deovie early. I believe this happened before pod dealt with OP in ahelps too. This permission was asked on staff cord, and as such the exact phrasing of it should be gotten from there. rather than ingame logs.

    Now for my role as witness, yeah mid round i got quite incredibly frustrated with the decision and the way it played out and i did actually rage quit over it. Yellow has said previously in that round, shortly after been given the go ahead to deovie by me that that he he no intention of allowing t3s that round and he would sill do such meme plays if permitted by qm, (which in this case it was). Beyond this point as i stated, i had simply raged out of the game and that was that.

    In conclusion, yellow asked to do something memey, he was given the go ahead by me, before i knew the reasons for it. i then check with the higher ups, that upheld that decision, I left the game over how the round was going, and it seems pod upheld the original decision i made as well. Given my insolvent in this i will not be pulling logs however.
    Last edited by ito726; 09-17-2021 at 05:20 AM.
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  4. #4
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    A member of Staff asked for a rule clarification regarding Combat Queens yesterday, approximately an hour before this report, specifically ito726.

    ito726— Yesterday at 8:40 PM
    when is queen allowed to deovie, are they allowed to a soon as they reach mature status?

    thesoldierlljk — Yesterday at 9:22 PM
    As long as they're not camping the LZ at first drop, there's no other rules against combat queens
    As such, there is no misconduct on the behalf of any member of staff involved in this situation.

    This ruling may be changed, but in the specific case of this report, Podrick Equus and ito726 acted appropriately and within expected standards.

    Resolved - No action taken.


    I acted without fulling reviewing all available evidence, and came to a conclusion based on the insufficient evidence that I had reviewed, for this, I apologize.

    The videos in this report and a review of the logs indicates that Yellows was intentionally preventing evolution to force a T1 hive, as per the videos of Yellows standing around for extended durations without going on ovi, and without attacking or defending the Marine forces.

    It is my ruling that Podrick Equus failed to properly investigate the situation, and failed to take appropriate administrative measures after realizing the situation as per:

    2021/09/16: [20:47:44]ADMIN: PM: Podrick Equus/(Ancient Runner (RTZ-987))->Yellows/(Prime Queen (SO-396)): hey I get that combat queening off of ovi the whole round is fun and all, but if a lot of the xenos say they want you to ovi when you *clearly* have no reason to otherwise, then you probably should.
    2021/09/16: [20:48:08]ADMIN: PM: Yellows/(Prime Queen (SO-396))->Podrick Equus/(Ancient Runner (RTZ-987)): I was told before I only had to ovi once
    2021/09/16: [20:48:48]ADMIN: PM: Yellows/(Prime Queen (SO-396))->Podrick Equus/(Ancient Runner (RTZ-987)): I wanted to see how a t1 hive can do overall but thanks for the reference for the future
    2021/09/16: [20:48:51]ADMIN: PM: Podrick Equus/(Ancient Runner (RTZ-987))->Yellows/(Prime Queen (SO-396)): Either we misspoke or there was a misunderstanding, but I won't contest that at the moment. If you decide to do this again in the future please ask again
    2021/09/16: [20:49:01]ADMIN: PM: Podrick Equus/(Ancient Runner (RTZ-987))->Yellows/(Prime Queen (SO-396)): twas fun to watch anyways
    Podrick Equus should have his Admin Trial extended by 2 weeks, as this situation is borderline enough that I do not feel a failure of the trial is warranted, but additional time to learn is needed to reach the standards I hold for the Administrative team. However, due to my own hypocrisy that I failed to investigate this report before ruling on it means that I am also at fault. I cannot, in good conscious, hold against Podrick something I just did myself. As such, I will only be speaking to Podrick in regards to investigating situations further and taking appropriate action.

    As for Yellows, their job ban will be reinstated as it is exceedingly obvious they did not learn from it.

    Resolved - Podrick will be spoken to. I will strive to do better myself. Yellows will receive a job ban from Queen.
    Last edited by Grimreaperx15; 09-17-2021 at 10:15 AM.
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  5. #5
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    So I'm reviewing the actual enforcement of this, and determining if the jobban on yellows is warranted because there's several mitigating circumstances:

    1. We never actually had any rule clarifications or a rule when a queen must be in Ovi. The only rule we have is no combat queens at first drop
    2. The only rules we ever had for "big brained" queen strategies was you cannot order an entire hive to be one single caste
    3. I have had multiple levels of staff/management/developers conflicted over this
    4. We never try to punish players for the new meta, but at the same time, not letting xenos play the caste they want when it is in your control can be seen as griefing.
    5. Yellows admits he wanted to see how a T1 hive would do. Had yellows gone into Ovi at hijack, then this would all be a moot point.

    This review is only happening because the staff here made honest judgement calls, and it's going in the order of precedence from Admin - Manager - Head. Whatever decision declared after me is final and sealed.

    I am reopening this, and giving yellows 24 hours to respond.

    I am converting this to a player report as well.

  6. #6
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    For this round, I had intended to do a t1 hive but do it following the rules I was aware of at the time of this incident which was to ovi at startround and let Xenos evolve to t2 or t3 if they wished to and then de-ovi and do what I wish which was to be a combat queen and lead an offensive against the marine force using my knowledge against them which did work.

    From all of my previous hives I have done, I was never warned to ovi on Dropship or once the offensive calmed down and I am reorganizing my forces in caves to prepare for another offensive against the marines, I had also done previous t1 hives where Xenos had fun doing it such as my 'Red tide' Hives where I only had to Ovi once.

    As previously stated I was trying to do this hive while following rules that I was aware of, at no time was there a rule against doing this neither a rule clarification such as 'You cannot force the hive to go a certain t3 Caste' and had there been a rule saying that I could not do this or a better explanation on ovi rules I would have followed them as I have been recently unbanned from the queen and I had no intent to break rules that I was aware of.


    I had also intended to try to make the round interesting and not follow the same meta however some players might not like this and some will I just try not to do the same thing every round so Xeno players get a chance to do t2 or t3 the very next round even if I'm doing queen the next round.

    the final decision made I will fully respect.

  7. #7
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    After review the jobban is staying. We don’t want to punish players for trying new meta, but at the same time you can’t force a hive to not evolve as this is letting players be prevented from playing the xeno roles they want to play when there are slots available and you have the ability to go into ovi. Therefore this is considered griefing.
    Unhinged retiree boomer man
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