Staff Report - Ito726

[50RemAndCounting]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

50RemAndCounting

Date of Incident

September 29, 2021

Your Character Name?

Mia

Their BYOND Key

Ito726

Approximate time and date of the incident

Circa 10:00 server time

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

2. Investigate the situation

Description of the incident

A doctor named Alan James was randomly murdering marines who walked into medbay with tramadol and tricordrazine overdoses, when he overdosed myself, I remarked that I saw them doing that, they ran away from me, then turned back towards me and said "No you didn't".

Not a minute later, I realized that at least two other marines have been killed by this doctor via overdoses in the same manner, as people started complaining in IC and LOOC, and I ahelped it.

Ito takes the ahelp and asks me for... context? This question immediately took me by surprise. What context is there to someone griefing people? Just jump to him, check it out and asleep him before the griefer has opportunity to kill even more people. This is basically what I replied with as well.

A minute passes and the griefer gets aslept, so I went on to revive and heal one of the marines who was murdered by the griefer. However, whilst in the process of doing that I noticed the doctor suddenly got unslept, and he started walking around again. I ahelp again saying why a blatant griefer hasn't been banned, and Ito again responds "I'm unsure if the guy is actually griefing or is just dumb."

This is an abject failure of a moderator to do their job, for a multitude of reasons.

1. Ignorance of the rules has never been an excuse. People are not given a free pass to blatantly grief because they CLAIM they're new at the game, they get sometimes warned, but mostly banned - 3 hours usually, more if the person has previous note history.

2. This was a DOCTOR, not a nurse player. Nurse is a role new players must play for a set amount time before unlocking further medical roles, it exists as a buffer/newbie role for people who are clueless about CM's medical system to learn the bare basics in an enviroment where they can do the least amount of damage whilst still having actual access to the department and its functionalities. How can a person play the game for at the very least half a dozen hours as a squad marine, a squad medic, a nurse and then a doctor, then claim ignorance at very basic game mechanics and get away with it? Come on.

3. The griefing doctor was given a medical dummy to train on when he apparently told staff in ahelps he was a baldie making an honest mistake (keep in mind he overdosed at least three people, myself included, with huge amounts of tram or tric by this point and acted suspiciously nonchalant about it when I asked what he was doing), and what did he do? He overdosed the dummy with more tramadol and left it to die from toxin damage. Now why would a person do the exact same thing they did to at least three other players go and do the same thing to a dummy, then walk out of the medbay never to be seen again? Does this not seem suspicious to anyone, at all?

4. As far as I've seen, the guy made NO attempt to rectify the situation ICly - not even a "sorry, my bad" "what did I just do" "how do I fix it" etc etc or just about any thing an honest person would say when they make an honest mistake like this in any kind of videogame. Instead he was walking around silent whilst occasionally spouting gibberish. If this is not a textbook example of a griefer griefing then I was born yesterday.

Ito demonstrated a complete failure to uphold staff protocol and perform their most basic of duties. In my own time as a staff member I don't recall even trial moderators dropping the ball this horribly. And Ito is currently a senior moderator. This is a very serious concern and should be addressed by the moderator manager appropriately.

Evidence

My interactions with the griefer and two other marines being griefed:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...22/griefer.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0/griefer2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2/griefer3.png

My ahelp convo with ito:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...17768/ito1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...91102/ito2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...59904/ito3.png

Convo continues after I noticed the griefer being unslept and let go:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...92714/ito4.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...55166/ito5.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...89542/ito6.png

How you would punish the accused

I'm not a manager.

[50RemAndCounting]

Oh the staff ckey is Ito something of course, made a mistake when filling out that form field.

[ito726]

While most of the factual statements are likely correct as far the synth player Mia would know them, the interpretation of said events both now and as I saw at the time was lacking, and imo clouded. They are also unaware of other events. I will firstly address the points raised before I give a more general account of the situation.

1. "Griefing is the intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or the server without a valid role play reason. If Staff believes that the player’s intent is to grief, then action will be taken whether or not it was the player’s intent." I am not sure it was the players intent to greif, his initial reply when I talked to them gave me enough doubt that this was his intent, and perhaps a lack of game mechanics knowledge might be the reason. This is why he was unslept, I wanted to see what he would do after that. He did not try to greif more but actually attempted to follow staff instruction as best he could.

2. "How can a person play the game for at the very least half a dozen hours as a squad marine, a squad medic, a nurse and then a doctor, then claim ignorance at very basic game mechanics and get away with it? Come on." this is a great reason for as to why there more be more to the story, and it warranting further investigation. If they were simply a griefer, why weren't they noted in the previous 3-5 rounds? Why only do this now? I've seen CMOs who don't know surgery so just cuz he managed to slip through the crack and become a doc .... does not seem super reliable as a predictor in terms of what he might actually know.

3a "and what did he do? He overdosed the dummy with more tramadol and left it to die from toxin damage. Now why would a person do the exact same thing they did to at least three other players go and do the same thing to a dummy," yes, he wanted to see it live what his previous actions did on a test dummy, at this point he was aware that this could have negative effects and wanted to see them in action, he also wanted to have the dummy revived after he killed it. He didn't seem to have been fully aware that his actions would have killed people, not until shortly before being brigged. Some time later he mentioned he killed himself this way in a previous round and didn't know it was because of that (OD).

3b "then walk out of the medbay never to be seen again? Does this not seem suspicious to anyone, at all?" I dont know how to see this bit as anything but dishonest on your end. By this point, you seemed fed up, and you made sure MPs would arrest him, and now you are acting surprised when he was made to disappear (by MPs arresting him)?. Additionally, you were alt-tabbed quite a lot writing this report, so i guess it is possible you may have just missed it, but even if this is the case, to claim suspicious disappearance .... is a bit much. I presume you also missed the bit where he was back in med bay again later.

4 Only as far as you have seen. He did make some later, minimal, but he did. (this was while he was brigged, about 2-3 instances of it)

I got some ahelps regarding a potential greifer, I looked into it and asleep the guy, checked his VV, and it did look bad, so i asked him what or why he did what he did. he gave me an ESL answer but one that i read as he had no fucking clue why what he did was bad or harmful, the 2 ahelps did not provide much context beyond demanding him to be banned because he injected a couple of people, nor did they contradict what the player said to me up until this point. Rather than just banning him and forgetting about it, I feel it would have been reasonable to investigate more, so I unslept him and gave him a medical test dummy to experiment on. (he got a bit lost but eventfully he found it). I managed to get some marine or something to teach him some basics, i think it was surgery, but eventually at synth's instance he was brigged. I had not issue with that as he did deserve some jail time for killing people, I only asked the MW to bring the medical dummy along so that he may continue practicing. Around this time a SEA also joined the game, and at MW’s request, he spent about the next 1h teaching the new guy, both in the brig and outside. Then later around the time of hijack cmo had a broken foot and our freshly trained doc managed to do bone surgery on the cmo (all by himself) in a timely manager and not fuck it up. Overall this seems like a great improvement to me, and a net positive. There was also a marine I ckeyd into the dummy at some point who was observing him and the sea for about 30 mins at the time (with clear restrictions on how he may act in his new body), that also has seen how his teaching went virtually the whole round. Round ended with the new guy and another nurse saving each other in escape pods.

I made a decision that this guy looks more bald then greifing (about the time i issued his note) and I ensured he got some learning done. I do not think the guy will never get into trouble again, he seem a bit too impulsive for that, however i do believe that he does not fit the mass greifer type, at least, not at this moment, and had doubts even at the time of the ahelp, when 50rem said this was unacceptable. Should he have continued greifing after that or such, I would have acted differently, but I do not see a reason to have done so at the time and even in retrospect. The synth did actually provide more details and context as to what happened to the mps in mp comms later on, than he did in ahelps.

50rem, it does pain me to hear that in your days you banned baldies rather than taking the time to teach them. There is also a reason you are in general not supposed to handle cases where you are icly involved, and I think this is one of the best examples of it.

[50RemAndCounting]

...The synth did actually provide more details and context as to what happened to the mps in mp comms later on, than he did in ahelps.

50rem, it does pain me to hear that in your days you banned baldies rather than taking the time to teach them. There is also a reason you are in general not supposed to handle cases where you are icly involved, and I think this is one of the best examples of it.

Not only was this last sentence uncalled for, all of this is a blatant lie. While playing that round, I literally said the same thing that I said to you, which was a paraphrase of "hey, this guy is MURDERING PEOPLE, do something about it??"

I was the second most active mentor when the mentor role was first introduced, and answered a metric ton of mentorhelps, to the satisfaction of the players, myself and the staff members responsible for overseeing mentor work. I've even continued actively answering mentorhelps when I became a moderator, despite this being a thing moderators are not supposed to do, because I was more active and knowledgeable than most mentors at the time, and still am.

Claiming ignorance and or incompetence is quite literally griefing 101. I really should not have to explain this, it's obvious to anyone who has played any multiplayer videogame ever. And we're not meant to debate the report here anyways, I'm merely replying to this blatant personal attack.

Not only was I one of the most active mentors, I was also one of the first people ever to pass the 9 hour SEA playtime required for the snowflake SGM rank, because I was happy to help people new to the game and wanting help. Very few of the bans I've handed out I came to regret later, and I damn well will consider myself an authority on discerning a genuine new player from a griefer.

The Applications section on the forums, where the staff reports are located, are one of the very few places in CM where every party is expected to act and remain proffesional and serious at all times. So kindly restrain yourself from talking shit about others and follow the staff code of conduct.

[Flpfs]

Ito's outgoing PMs will be made yellow
50rem's outgoing PMs will be made blue
Kirbogamer30's outgoing PMs will be made purple

James injects Mia and other personnel several times.

50rem calls for MPs

I believe this covers everything. Player has clocked in about 68 hours, the tool could be incorrect though, and the time may be higher or lower than that.

[Flpfs]

To clarify further, this line

Alright, so, Vanessa asks for Kelotane and Bicaridine injectors, Kirbo overdoses her, admits to it, says to Mia that she didn't see it, overdoses Mia, then asks Ode if he wants drugs (Ode wanted IA, KD), then he overdoses Ode. This is what he refers to in the admin PM to Ito as "asked for drugs"

[ito726]

With the addition of the full logs prior to the incident, in particular the chat logs, I do think his initial actions would be deserving of a ban rather than just a note. Given that it seems to have been multiple incidents of injecting people rather than just 1 incident with multiple victims. Intent does seem much more clear, even if he didn't quite know about how ods work per se, he did know/learn they would cause death and continued to od others even after it was clear to him death would occur. If at all possible I do request that management changes his note to indicate that at least a 3h ban would have been appropriate, if not perhaps 1d.

I do have to give the guy credit tho, he did behave after being talked to for the rest of the round and didn't attempt to od the mp arresting him either or anyone teaching him, so I'm not sure how much a ban would accomplish at this point, if issued retroactively. I will leave that call up to either the victims or management, if they wish to seek one, as while at the time it would have been deserved, I do have some reservations in regards to what it would accomplish if issued now, beyond what the changes to the note would on their own. But perhaps his victims do feel more strongly about such things, in terms of him getting away with it, and perhaps for them, it might still be warranted.

I am sorry 50rem that I did not issue the ban at the time, however, to me, it looked like the guy might just be bald, even if i did have suspicions that it might be otherwise, I did not find enough evidence at the time that he had the intent to grief, nor did he provide any that after I unslept him. I disagree that him injecting the dummy is evidence that his intent was to grief.

[Somenerd]

Looking at the logs I'm in agreement that this person should have been banned based off of log investigations.

Where my concerns lie are in the accusation that Ito failed to investigate.
I would say this is not a failure to investigate but a failed investigation.

We do not routinely dig through logs (very time consuming) for every single scenario unless info presents itself where the need for fact-checking is needed. The information presented to Ito726 at the time you ahelped was fairly minimal and is very similar to ahelps such as "a guy is shooting people in cryo". Ito reached out to the player to get their side and from the information they had at the time assumed the player was a new player due to both the way they interacted with him as well as the fact they appeared to follow moderator instruction.

I believe that the player was likely acting dumb.
I think this could have been prevented if you had given more info regarding the player when Ito asked for context, in particular, this exchange.
[10:33:51]SAY: Mia: I saw that. (CKEY: 50RemAndCounting) (JOB: Synthetic)
[10:33:56]SAY: Alan James: No you didn't (CKEY: Kirbogamer30) (JOB: Doctor)
Would have been more than enough to trigger more suspicion and involve a more detailed investigation. As it stands, into approached a fairly common sounding situation and found someone who appeared to be cooperative and follow moderator instruction in a manner consistent with a newer player. Additionally, the player's BYOND account is dated as being created on the 28th of September. Being given more context by witnesses during the investigation would likely have influenced this investigation heavily.
As far as enforcement of the rules, Ito applied a note regarding their interaction for future logging and kept an eye on them and attempted to help what they found to be a new player without any further incidents.
Note applied to player was as follows.

"Told not to OD people. Oded multiple people at round start, Seems to be totally new and hyperactive, rather than malicious.
By Ito726 (SeniorModerator) on 2021-09-29 10:52:54"

Still. This is something to learn from and may be considered regarding admin promotions in the future given Grim's current criteria for admins as being more experienced in investigations. If there's any doubt to a situation, logs can and should be pulled for a proper investigation if possible.

Resolved.
I'll speak to Ito about some advice about further investigation, Kirbogamer30 will be receiving a dayban.

I don't think anyone was wrong in their actions here, it just really could have gone better with better communication