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Thread: ZAB1019. - Rule 4, 11.

  1. #1
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    ZAB1019. - Rule 4, 11.

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Cpkeyes

    Date of Incident
    October 16, 2021

    Your Character Name?
    Tabatha Ahuva Cody.

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    ZAB1019.

    Accused Character Name
    Nordica Northey

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    10pm CST

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 4, 11.

    Description of the incident:
    I was the only command staff of the round, and thus felt that I needed to depend more on the information provided by SL's and had to pull double duty as the OB loader as there was no MT or CE. This entire time, Northey was being aggressive towards my character, calling them "retarded" and other such things.

    The straw that broke the camels back for me was me requesting for more information on the front, Northey responded by insulting me. I told her that her job was to provide information as a SL, in which they responded by continuing to insult me and tell me to check the tactical map (Which personally, I find doesn't give me the information I want to make a call). She also told me that "She was just there to shoot stuff".

    I took this as to mean that she just wanted to play Private+ and thus field demoted her, and proceeded to ignore her as Northey had seemed to establish that she wasn't going to be useful.

    Apparently this strike a nerve, as Northey began to rally a mutiny with marines I suspect did not fully know why she was doing it (apparently bad mortars were blamed on me, but I don't know if this is true). Apparently for most of them, were frustrated about my command, which fine, I don't agree with most of their points, that seem to be based off them not knowing what I was doing or just plain bias (Such as bad OB calls, which I don't see how the XO is responsible for), but those aren't the problem and I won't go into those reasons nor am angry at them, I as feel those are not the real reason ZAB wanted to do the mutiny.

    It's Northey and the fact that the munity was basically just to "own" me and 'shitposting'. It was the fact that even with reason it was allowed, even through mutinies with better reasoning have been denied and it is feels like a admin-approved grief.

    As far as I'm concerned, the trouble with Northey was over the moment I demoted her. She did not need to steal the Alamo and leave several marines to die, she did not need to steal my tablet just to rub salt in the wound and seeing as her one of her posts in this very chat is to 'legalize LRP', I don't see this as being anything but an attempt to troll.

    There is also the problem I have with the fact I feel this shows a flaw in the mutiny guidelines. I may do a staff report, but I Frozentbgg did not understand the situation, and as he said in PMs to me "I don't think i'd approve a mutiny like this if it happened again to say the least) and apologized to me for being griefed, and even noted this is "Nordica being Nordica'.


    That seems to make it clear to me that mutiny guidelines should be changed or made more clear, as a person who admits to being LRP, who is noted by other for looking for reasons to mutiny whenever they can, should clearly be given a tighter leash when they try to start a mutiny.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    How you would punish the accused:
    More scrutiny for munity requests, clearer guidelines, for ZAB, a job ban from SL, perhaps having a tighter leash for mutiny baiting.

  2. #2
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    ok my video, its not much: https://youtu.be/mKmWx2XXCqA

    I also have video of 12:41-13:07 if staff wants it ill upload

    Yeah I always try to mutiny if there's a valid reason, or I try to make the round different in my own autistic way. Mutinys are a fun and interesting mechanic. They're apart of the game. Nordica is objectively a retard not gonna lie tho and is a very flawed character. I try to act like a person would under specific scenarios. The scenario here was the front literally got wiped entirely. I essentially lost the entirety of my squad. Then I have you, the aCO. Asking me how it's going. If a person loses the entirety of their team, because of their fuck up. They aren't going to want to say that, depending on their character. Nordica is one of those. I try to roleplay things like this because it's realistic. I only have like 2/3 of the round at best recorded, i love corrupted video. But its pretty poggers for my case that you recorded, so thank you.

    Guess ill talk about the vids now, but mostly yours round timers marked
    12:10 i greet you, my fellow jewish person of descent with a shallom and request a cluster OB to be loaded, you agree it will be loaded by yourself personally after brief. You literally walk to the OB cannon, and not load it. In the future if you just had briefing not be at 12:15 you couldve loaded it imo. Its a pretty early time for brief all things considered.
    You also want a split drop, and I agree. Split drops on trijent are dope. I follow your orders and I tell charlie and delta on alamo to drop by spamming it. You said since the beginning I was being aggressive towards you, but I was following your orders to a T. Because at this point there's no bad blood or negative things from either of us.

    12:20 you are literally fore-playing with the OB cannon. Of course I didn't know this cause I didn't have engineering comms. But all I know is that you said you will load OB after brief yourself. Then you ask an MT to do it instead. (No one trusts MTs to do anything, dont rely on them). Then you announce that OB is loaded with cluster 2 minutes after. This tells me I know I have an OB ready. There was also an announcement later that you can see a small portion of the announcement in my vid, and the entire thing in yours. Stating from you that it wasnt loaded. But i missed it cause i was busy talking to my squad, and I did not realise it.

    12:24 alpha SL requests help cause theyre getting fucked, and me and charlie squad are ready to flank and assist. We get into position and I request an OB from you. You say it isnt loaded... I pop off at you that it's your job to make sure it's loaded. When people roleplay they should not be like dang robots. If someone is promised something multiple times to happen but it doesn't. They will be pissed off. Its realistic.

    12:27 Im trying to get a flank going north east. was talking in local chat mostly, but i said a bit on radio. Actually queen and entire hive was north east and queen was gonna cap me so i self PB. and get revived a bit after.

    gotta use video timestamps instead of round timer now cause cant see round timer in your vid.

    26:14: Front is lost and I say run. On comms people say 11 people are capped. I call you a dipshit for not understanding a drunk marine and translate what he said for you when he was talking about hive location. Frankly this is a RP of enlisted marines always being partying and drunk motherfuckers, therefore understand drunk people better. Officers with their regal elitism (aka cic) might not have the best experience with understanding drunk people. It's enlisted/officer RP to me. You were talking very formal and officer like, name calling in a warzone like that may happen.

    28:24 you can see that we really fell back, as we probably lost 3 screens of ground, and with 11 caps.... (later was said 15 caps, idk) Marines got fucked hard. APC dead.

    29:24 ok heres the funny. Sadly i dont have video. But here/shortly after is where the front entirely collapsed. I have no idea how logs can interpret the front collapsing. Xenos flanked, marines too slow and die. The usual. I'm busy shooting my weapons and running so i dont get captured. Your questions would've be solved by looking at the tacmap or using helmet cams. Neither of which you are doing. You're just staring at alpha OW and not using it, and looking at your copier/printer. While complaining that you don't know what is going on. As XO in CIC. :/

    Nordica literally lost their entire squad, or at least the ones that were at the front since deployment. And she was the only survivor from her squad. Being asked "How front?" To someone who just lost their entire squad isn't going to be always met with the most kind of words. Especially when she feels remorse that she only lived because she ran away like a coward. She isn't going to want to to open up right away that her friends just died. She isn't going to want to directly say that under her leadership, her entire squad got killed. So I just tell you to use tacmap and helmet cam. I know you want info from me, and I told you how to get it. Nordica is stubborn and isn't going to answer to her mistakes and their consequences super openly always by saying "Yeah I got my squad killed." You are in CIC after all and you have more abilities to look at info than I do. Anger is difficult to roleplay in spaceman game. But I think I didn't do an AWFUL job here.

    30:22 You look at my helmet cam. It is directly after the front got wiped and I just made it out. Me, the apc crewman and the charlie marine with bright orange/red hair were literally the only survivors from the front. We probably had like...over 20 marines at the front earlier. In comms people said alpha got wiped. Delta also got wiped. All the people in fob behind cades were never at the front in the first place, so yeah.

    31:22 Im still playing the whole Nordica is acting hella defensive thing because she just got her own squad killed. She doesnt want to give the answer herself. But the answer can be found by using tacmap or helmet cam, or even crew status monitor. Again she does not want to be reminded that she's a coward and everyone died. I've gotten my point across that she doesnt want to talk about it, and would rather shoot or lead the marines that were alive to de-stress from losing her mates. If staff wish to consider SLs being able to have human flaws against the rules, guess im fucked.
    You demote me and by the way demotion is a valid mutiny. It has been for a while, and ive done it quite a few times. I ahelp. I also add the no OB thing in it. And I get told it could be valid if i get enough ppl.

    Video of me launching alamo: https://streamable.com/7b4vsg
    I didnt 'steal' alamo. Im a fugging mutineer. I waited until the vast majority of my mutineers were onboard, a decent chunk of the non mutineers were on, and booked it. Fellow mutineers were more valuable to me, and my top priority at that point was to mutiny, not fight the xenos. They were at the door, which means we weren't going to hold for too long anyway. But it is true I left non mutineers outside. I gave everyone in fob at that point a m word invite, so I guess they picked their fate.

    I dont think im LRP. I'm not sure what I did could be considered LRP and even after being bwoinked after it all I still didn't understand, I think staff had a mix up with my "Get owned" announcement. Wasn't mutiny bait either, demotion has been a valid mutiny since basically mutinies have existed. Though if staff consider me, a literal mutineer. (mutineers love cic they would never lie about cic's actions! /s). Lying about command staff calling evac early when in reality it was me; to be a rule break. I think that would be a valid case. But yeah its a grey area. So rulings should probably be updated to reflect that.

    clip: https://streamable.com/fxsf9r
    I dont think I ever stole your tablet. After we killed you in brig and MOOC that mutiny was over, the MPs continued to stun us (I love MPs) Then I roller bed'd you to cic and took your ID. I had to do this to make an announcement. SLs cannot announce. I did the announcement and give you back your ID. Then I let the synth revive you. I wanted the synth to take you somewhere in confinement because your freedom might've resparked a mutiny. And boy was I correct. You literally tried to order the MP to get me after mutiny was over. Logs can show that.

    Mutiny wasn't a shitpost. Nordica is a arrogant and proud person and will rub it in your face if they succeed at something. I'm not sure what you mean by me "admitting" to being LRP either, nor the words "get owned" being LRP. Would a "Get destroyed command, I hate you. The mutiny has been won." Have been better? I dunno. Maybe. The announcement was factual at least. As you requested me to stop swearing and insulting, and I refused, then you deSL'd me and that was the primary reason for the m word. I'm not sure if I actually called you a retard, but it doesnt matter. Same vibe in the announcement.

    Mutiny guidelines are giga old tho I agree they need an update. But I dont think I was griefing you. Demoting SLs has been mutiny-able forever.

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    (I don't know how to quote specific parts of a post, so apologizes).

    " you are literally fore-playing with the OB cannon. Of course I didn't know this cause I didn't have engineering comms. But all I know is that you said you will load OB after brief yourself. Then you ask an MT to do it instead. (No one trusts MTs to do anything, dont rely on them). Then you announce that OB is loaded with cluster 2 minutes after. This tells me I know I have an OB ready. There was also an announcement later that you can see a small portion of the announcement in my vid, and the entire thing in yours. Stating from you that it wasnt loaded. But i missed it cause i was busy talking to my squad, and I did not realise it."

    Yeah, I figured the MT could do his job and again, when I learned it wasn't loaded, I rectified it immediately. I also want to be clear that I don't have a OOC problem with you being aggressive in-character. It was just the reason I ICly decided to demote you (Well, by adding an ASL, which I'm not sure counts as an all out demotion). I'm not going to send the MP's to go get you (And honestly, I was kind of not confident in their abilities anyway) and I didn't feel like being constantly insulted when I ask a question I ask every OP to SL's. Me demoting you was actually just an attempt to deescalate the situation and go on with the OP and at the moment I did it, I was 100% convinced you were just wanting to play PFC+.

    I may also just be an old hat, but I don't really use the tac map much expect to post it into announcements, and honestly, I feel just asking "How is front" is a better way to get a feel for the front, since there are things that I can't learn just from the map and looking at a cam.

    And to me trying to get you arrested after I was revived; I was pissed both OOCly and ICly (Since I actually didn't really understand the reason the mutiny was happening, cause from my POV, I was doing fine and trying my best), because ICLy because like, Tabatha just died, oocly because I was being called bald in chat, was already in a poor mood when I saw that announcement to me, which to me just confirmed that you were throwing a mutiny to in my eyes, grief. Hence why I don't have a problem with the other mutineers; since from my POV this mutiny was you just trying to 'own me'.

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    CM-SS13 Host Frozentsbgg's Avatar
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    You Angered the Delta SL. You wiped their squad. You even demoted them. They had an IC Reason to want to remove you from command. It might have been driven by an IC personal vendetta against you as the XO, but at the end of the day, it was about your performance as a commanding player.

    I took this as to mean that she just wanted to play Private+ and thus field demoted her, and proceeded to ignore her as Northey had seemed to establish that she wasn't going to be useful.
    You're playing with fire if you do that to the delta SL. Ignoring everything else that happened, that's more than enough. Even if they did have other reasons they can announce anything they like regarding your mutiny.

    Don't use out of context screenshots of our DMs and #LRC as evidence.
    I probably wouldn't approve of a mutiny like this again, to say the least, mainly because of how I approved it on the fly during combat when the fob was falling (bypassing some of the standard mutiny rules). I thought it would create an interesting mutiny scenario (and to an extent it did when ZAB proceeded to hijack the DS with mutineers).

    Mutinies happen. you're not always going to win. I understand it's frustrating to feel like you got murdered by no fault of your own, but several players (from zab to the people that joined them) felt like you were at fault to the point of wanting you removed from command. It's part of playing command and it happens to the best of officers.

    I ruled on this in-game, explained it to you both in ahelps and in discord at length. I even copped that my response in OOC saying "funny mutiny" and wasn't the most helpful.
    There won't be any changes to my ruling based on this thread.
    For the future though, Mutiny Guidelines do need an update, and I'll get the cogs turning on my end.


    To avoid any accusations of me resolving a report I handled in-game,
    I'm just clarifying that Zab was authorised to do this mutiny by myself.
    It's against the forum policy here to report the player based on my ruling.

    The report should be on me here if you wish to continue trying to get someone punished for this.
    I've moved this to the staff report section and if you wish you can proceed with reporting me.
    (which in turn would be handled by another staff member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozentsbgg View Post
    You Angered the Delta SL. You wiped their squad. You even demoted them. They had an IC Reason to want to remove you from command. It might have been driven by an IC personal vendetta against you as the XO, but at the end of the day, it was about your performance as a commanding player.



    You're playing with fire if you do that to the delta SL. Ignoring everything else that happened, that's more than enough. Even if they did have other reasons they can announce anything they like regarding your mutiny.

    Don't use out of context screenshots of our DMs and #LRC as evidence.
    I probably wouldn't approve of a mutiny like this again, to say the least, mainly because of how I approved it on the fly during combat when the fob was falling (bypassing some of the standard mutiny rules). I thought it would create an interesting mutiny scenario (and to an extent it did when ZAB proceeded to hijack the DS with mutineers).

    Mutinies happen. you're not always going to win. I understand it's frustrating to feel like you got murdered by no fault of your own, but several players (from zab to the people that joined them) felt like you were at fault to the point of wanting you removed from command. It's part of playing command and it happens to the best of officers.

    I ruled on this in-game, explained it to you both in ahelps and in discord at length. I even copped that my response in OOC saying "funny mutiny" and wasn't the most helpful.
    There won't be any changes to my ruling based on this thread.
    For the future though, Mutiny Guidelines do need an update, and I'll get the cogs turning on my end.


    To avoid any accusations of me resolving a report I handled in-game,
    I'm just clarifying that Zab was authorised to do this mutiny by myself.
    It's against the forum policy here to report the player based on my ruling.

    The report should be on me here if you wish to continue trying to get someone punished for this.
    I've moved this to the staff report section and if you wish you can proceed with reporting me.
    (which in turn would be handled by another staff member)
    I was told to submit a player report.

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    Also, I don't know if this allowed, but now that ZAB has explained what was happening from their viewpoint, and has made it clearer to me what they were thinking/doing, I do ask that this is rescinded. As far as I am concerned, the report is now not necessary nor needed. (That and I'll admit, my judgement was clouded via just being in a poor mood by for things related and not related).

    I do think that mutiny guidelines should still be updated however. Sometimes they do feel arbitrary.

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    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Report withdrawn
    Unhinged retiree boomer man
    Get off my lawn you kids

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