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Thread: Predators are unrealistically strong

  1. #11
    Senior Member Usnpeepoo's Avatar
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    one m39 AP magazine if you hit most of the shots can bring a pred to like yellow HP lol and one direct flamer hit + DOT can do the same

    they are weak as fuck u just never use the right weapons

  2. #12
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    Predators dont act like the movie predators anyway. Movie predators basically could hunt anyone they felt like more or less, not waiting for you to accept a duel or such and can just grab while invis or just plasma blast you while invis. Also their weapons were disgustingly deadly. Predators in CM do not have directional melee or bump attack, you know how hard it is to do drive by attacks without that stuff? Without directional melee predators have a tough time meleeing and they cant just trap or range murder or invis gank you so they need to be strong enough to deal with the guy with a shottie or 39.

  3. #13
    Yautja Council Member CCRWasHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightbearetard View Post
    What is exactly the point of the predator when they are UNGODLY hard to kill? I Never played pred, but if I know I can withstand 10 PBs and 10 slashes while I pretty much one-shot anybody I would quit on the spot. Yet we have a character that is easier to play than animal crossing. Why exactly?.
    I wouldn't say Predators are ungodly hard to kill; the problem lies with CM's weapon balancing. I don't know it it's power creep, but facing a Predator with a pulse rifle (without AP) or shotgun—while conventional—doesn't work.
    However, if you know what you're doing, a Predator is nothing more than a beefier runner.

    For example, a revolver with a barrel charger + marksman rounds ends a Predator with one speedloader:
    https://youtu.be/YzSZRsOj7sk

    Another example: an incinerator melts a Predator's health. Any secondary will work to finish off a Predator. Their retreat to self-extinguish leaves them vulnerable. Ask Ty Williamson how many Predators he's killed.
    https://youtu.be/56wMjt-KhC4

    What truly makes a Predator unfair to fight is their ability to disable another player's speed. In Marines, this is easily done by breaking a bone. For Aliens, a hunting trap keeps one contained to an area; they cannot flee.
    Speed is the deciding factor for melee combat in SS13. Making yourself hard to left-click is all it takes not to die to a Predator. Knowing what weapon to use is all it takes to kill one.
    Last edited by CCRWasHere; 11-14-2021 at 12:15 AM.
    Julian 'Jules' Petrov | MARINE

    Jall Thar'n | PREDATOR


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  4. #14
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    Literally use a flamer and marksman rounds in a revolver and the pred is dead to rites. Bring the right kit to kill preds, they’re not t1 and t2 xenos who you can statanize with buck stuns for easy kills. Skill issue, they’re supposed to be difficult opponents, they’re antags after all. Imagine if you could double chungus the pred to death as easy as you could a warrior, that would be boring as shit.
    Synth Gaming

  5. #15
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    Predators probably should be more of a "Glass Cannon", but the combat in SS13 doesn't work well to represent them accordingly and nor does terrain vaulting to enable effective stealth hunting.
    Sure in the movies, comics and games they can absorb a lot of small arms fire... but during the years CM takes place marines are effectively firing AP rounds that would shred Predators.

  6. #16
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    Thank you for the replies, Cabal answered my question.

    With that said, I still think they are pointless in this state. I understand they can not influence the round, but they should be nerfed a bit in my pointless opinion.

    Can anybody test how much PB can a queen, a Ravager, a Crusher can take, how much a pred take (if they have armor than in the armor and without it) to compare them?

    This might be a bug than? I don't know what are the numbers on the paper, but I think they should not be able to take this many PBs.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightbearetard View Post
    snip
    Just google "how to host byond server", download CM code from gitlab, go trough the easy steps and then you can test everything.
    Or just go to wiki. "Marine equipment" and "about xenos". There you have stats of weapons, ammunition, their performance against armor and beno stats. Be aware that this doesn't take damage falloff in account.

    For example crusher has 700 HP and 30 armor. One buckshot pellet does 26 dmg against that, so that times 4 gives us 104. So 7 PBs should be enough.
    Mature Queen has 1000 HP and 25 armor. Slightly above 8 PBs.
    Base rav has 650 HP and 25 armor. Above 5 PBs.
    However, pheromones, abilities and other stuff is not taken into account.

    It might be wrong, but I think preds have 300 HP and maximum (50) chest armor. Their boots are weaker, not sure how much, but as I said before, its the meta strat to aim at feet.
    Buckshot PB shoots 4 pellets for 60 damage each, maximum chest armor of a pred downs that number to 10 each, so the "worst" PB would deal only 40 damage, so 8 PBs to "crit" a pred. However, you can't really crit a pred, so you have to take -100 HP into account, so additional 2 PBs. Entire loaded buckshot shotgun worth of PBs should be enough to kill a pred, less if aimed at feet. Probably about two times faster.

    The catch is this equation assumes pred doesn't heal. Which he surerly will in "unhonorable" combat. So at this point, if the fight is long, he can both heal with his medical items and with his passive healing he surerly have.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Usnpeepoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Just google "how to host byond server", download CM code from gitlab, go trough the easy steps and then you can test everything.
    Or just go to wiki. "Marine equipment" and "about xenos". There you have stats of weapons, ammunition, their performance against armor and beno stats. Be aware that this doesn't take damage falloff in account.

    For example crusher has 700 HP and 30 armor. One buckshot pellet does 26 dmg against that, so that times 4 gives us 104. So 7 PBs should be enough.
    Mature Queen has 1000 HP and 25 armor. Slightly above 8 PBs.
    Base rav has 650 HP and 25 armor. Above 5 PBs.
    However, pheromones, abilities and other stuff is not taken into account.

    It might be wrong, but I think preds have 300 HP and maximum (50) chest armor. Their boots are weaker, not sure how much, but as I said before, its the meta strat to aim at feet.
    Buckshot PB shoots 4 pellets for 60 damage each, maximum chest armor of a pred downs that number to 10 each, so the "worst" PB would deal only 40 damage, so 8 PBs to "crit" a pred. However, you can't really crit a pred, so you have to take -100 HP into account, so additional 2 PBs. Entire loaded buckshot shotgun worth of PBs should be enough to kill a pred, less if aimed at feet. Probably about two times faster.

    The catch is this equation assumes pred doesn't heal. Which he surerly will in "unhonorable" combat. So at this point, if the fight is long, he can both heal with his medical items and with his passive healing he surerly have.
    yep about 10-11 PB's on average pred fight and if the pred has take thwei before the fight (almost always). Compare that to M39 AP and flamer or even just Mk2/Mk1 AP bullets preds get melted

  9. #19
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    So I have to PB 11 times a slim sprite that runs faster than a runner and can kill anybody in 2 hits. 11 times. This is without healing.

    Not taking in account that he can just run across the map in 15 second if he got bored after the 10th PB.

    What would make someone want to play a role like this? I though playing SS13 is about a hard challenge. It is for me. This makes it look like you are playing a pay to win game.

    My opinion about preds have been reinforced, I think in this state they are pointless units for people who are so unrobust that they can't possibly kill anything. If they would lost 90% of their HP I would welcome them, but now it makes them really out of place, considering CM resembles 'reality' in most cases in terms of damage.

  10. #20
    Dev Team Manager Stan_albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightbearetard View Post
    So I have to PB 11 times a slim sprite that runs faster than a runner and can kill anybody in 2 hits. 11 times. This is without healing.

    Not taking in account that he can just run across the map in 15 second if he got bored after the 10th PB.

    What would make someone want to play a role like this? I though playing SS13 is about a hard challenge. It is for me. This makes it look like you are playing a pay to win game.

    My opinion about preds have been reinforced, I think in this state they are pointless units for people who are so unrobust that they can't possibly kill anything. If they would lost 90% of their HP I would welcome them, but now it makes them really out of place, considering CM resembles 'reality' in most cases in terms of damage.
    Don't use shotgun pbs against maicers it's not effective, use AP ammo targeted at the foot + flamer.

    Shotgun isn't the be all and end all against every single enemy and it shouldn't be.

    Also, they can't kill you in 2 hits, they don't have dir slash either.
    Karl Karlsson, the man (and sometimes Captain)
    Maxwell, the synth
    Enhath'vot Guan-Dha, the predator
    Also a feature Coder & CM's Maintainer Team Manager

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