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Thread: GradusNL - Ban Appeal (Timed Ban)

  1. #1
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    GradusNL - Ban Appeal (Timed Ban)

    Ban Appeal
    Byond ID?
    GradusNL
    Character Name?
    Colten 'Colt' McAllister
    Type of Ban?
    Timed Ban
    Admin who banned you (if known)
    pedroca2lucas
    Total Ban Duration
    1440 minutes
    Remaining Duration
    1420 minutes
    What other servers do you play on?
    Hippiestation.
    Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?
    Permbanned from TG for repeatedly escalating badly and banned from Yogstation for insulting an admin after he said I couldn't kill people as traitor so I could order traitor gear from cargo.
    Reason for Ban
    Joined as a survivor, turned hostile on board the Almayer, injuring many of the crew. I'll be leaving it as griefing, please, make sure to read our rules! If you feel this is wrong, feel free to appeal.
    Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):
    -
    Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc)
    Yes, I know, another ban for the same sort of thing. I am trying really hard to work on this but the rules are as unclear as can be to me.

    I was trying to be hostile but I was basically forced to comply and get onboard when the marines arrived early and wrecked the holdout to extract the willing survivors. I did say multiple hostile things and I went immediately back to non-compliance as soon as we arrived and made a big speech on the radio about why W-Y is bad etc.

    I then hid in a closet and ahelped about my hostility. I explained the situation and got told (by who I don't know, could really use those logs.) that I could act hostile but needed to follow escalation rules instead of KoS'ing marines. (this is how I remember the ahelp atleast.)

    I broke into engineering multiple times to steal some supplies to build a hideout when a MT and the CE locked me in and the MT attacked me with a wrench. I yelled at the MT to stop, which he didn't, so I shot him and the CE and tried to escape, running into more support staff hunting me down and eventually getting killed after decapping a CT.

    There are two reasons why I don't think this ban is valid.
    The first is that my previous ahelp got ignored by Lucas and he said I turned hostile from friendly anyways as can be seen in the ban reason. This directly contradicts what was told to me in the previous ahelp (unless I severely misremembered it.)
    The second part is that I followed escalation rules AFAIK. I got attacked with a wrench, which according to Grimcad (//showthrea...ull=1#post9031) is reason enough to use a lethal weapon. (He said knife, I used a sawn-off shotgun, don't really see the difference between that.)

    The only reason why I would see that this ban may be valid is if the contents of the previous ahelp don't say what I think it did. Even so, I wasn't aggressively hostile to the marines, I only enacted non-compliance and defended myself when attacked.

  2. #2
    Senior Moderator Dorkkeli's Avatar
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    I was present for the situation while aghosting and I followed the discussion in msay.
    The rules state that you must be overt and from the start, when being hostile towards marines.
    "noo, i dont wanna goooo", was in essence what your "immediate hostility" was towards marine, which Is not overt, nor is it really even hostile.
    This was a clear cut case of blatant turncoating, and the example concerning the wrench is poor to say the least.

    You do not shoot someone after they beat you with a wrench, but you follow the proper escalation procedure.
    And the fact that after you were being chased by MPs, you opened fire on them, which in turn lead to more damage being done.


    I gave you a fair warning about killing several monkeys as a survivor the round before, and I suggested that you stay outta trouble. These infractions are the type, which we as staff constantly talk about and warn players, over on OOC, forums, rule clarification discussions, in the rules themselves, and over on ahelps, when the discussion arises. Which makes me feel that your actions in the past on CM and on Baystation indicate that you are the type of person who skirts around the rules.

    If I were the person who handled the ahelp, I would have most likely handed you a survivor ban alongside this one since you managed to perform (potentially) severe actions that alter the round in a big way (not allowing the xenos furhosts to keel the balance in check, and wounding several people severely and causing a manhunt.)

    I believe firmly, that Pedroca2lucas handled this one by the book, and that the punishment handed to you was well justified, and you should revisit our different sources for rules in general.
    -1 for the appeal.
    Last edited by Dorkkeli; 02-17-2019 at 11:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkkeli View Post
    the example concerning the wrench is poor to say the least.
    You do not shoot someone after they beat you with a wrench, but you follow the proper escalation procedure.
    First off, what is the 'proper escalation procedure'? You all say things like that, but nowhere does it say what the escalation procedure is. The only thing the rules say is that you need to use lethal force as you would IRL.
    Secondly, you completely ignore Grimcad's post I linked in which he said "If you attack a guy with a wrench without saying anything for a situation you were uninvolved with you can expect equal retaliation against you. He could have pulled out a knife and stabbed you."
    This boils down for me to "if a guy attacks you out of nowhere with a wrench or similar weapon you can use a lethal weapon on him." The MT didn't say anything to me and immediately started hitting me and didn't stop when I asked him to do so.
    If you think Grimcad's statement is invalid, how am I supposed to learn all the unwritten rules (of which there appear to be a ridiculous amount)?

    You also completely ignore the ahelp preceding this incident. You don't respond to the majority of things said in this appeal, only making the same arguments made by Pedro IG. How am I supposed to make an appeal when you ignore the things said in it?

    Edit:
    Firstly, you still ignored the majority of things said in my appeal in the edit.
    As for the killing of furhosts, I again say to you that there is NO WAY of knowing that such a thing isn't allowed if you don't search the forums for the Rule Clarification thread (which I only just found looking for a place where this is written down. It is unreasonable to expect every player to dig through the forums, why is it not linked on the wiki rules page? It also doesn't contain all of the unwritten rules such as escalation rules.) It is unfair to punish somebody for something they had no (reasonable) way of knowing. Noting is a form of punishment as it increases punishments on other offenses, as you demonstrate here. If the note was only made so I could be punished if I killed furhosts again it would be valid enough, but you now use it as reasoning to increase the punishment on an unrelated survivor offense.
    Last edited by GradusNL; 02-17-2019 at 11:44 PM. Reason: Responding to Dorkkeli's edit.

  4. #4
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    You cannot appeal any ban 24 hours or less, if you feel the ban was wrong, please file a staff report instead of an appeal if you believed there was a violation of moderator guidelines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    You cannot appeal any ban 24 hours or less, if you feel the ban was wrong, please file a staff report instead of an appeal if you believed there was a violation of moderator guidelines.
    Yeah, I knew that, but the ban reason literally said to appeal and I don't agree with the punishment.
    Can't I appeal to get rid of the note/get the note invalidated?
    This note will be taken account in future situations.
    Last edited by GradusNL; 02-17-2019 at 11:51 PM.

  6. #6
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    Continued in the following staff report: //showthrea...a2lucas&p=9521

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mizari's Avatar
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    You can only appeal or make a staff report, not both. In addition avoid appealing 24 hour bans.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizari View Post
    You can only appeal or make a staff report, not both. In addition avoid appealing 24 hour bans.
    I'm not doing both, I was told this appeal was invalid (as you can see in ThesoldierLLJK's post) so I made a report (as he suggested I do instead). This appeal can be closed.

  9. #9
    Admin Sir Lordington's Avatar
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    Ban is 24 hours or less.

    Closed.

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