Staff Report - pedroca2lucas

[GradusNL]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

GradusNL

Your Character Name?

Colten 'Colt' McAllister

Their BYOND Key

pedroca2lucas

Approximate time and date of the incident

16:00ish CST

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

Protocol 5 and 6

Description of the incident

This is a continuation of the ban appeal of my 24 hour ban that I received from Pedro. ( //showthrea...al-(Timed-Ban) )

Though the ban is for a short duration the ban does include a note that will stick forever and will be used in the future against me if an even somewhat comparable incident occurs. I don't think this note is valid and thus need to make a staff report to discuss the ban/note.

The reasons why I think this note is invalid are in the ban appeal.

I wrote that protocol 5 and 6 were broken because I think the ban and the note are invalid, but I can't appeal a 24 hour ban so it is mostly protocol 6.

Evidence

I don't have the majority of the relevant logs, only the last few messages, so it'd be more helpful if a staff member posted the logs.

How you would punish the accused

Not. This report is not to seek a punishment against Pedro.

[Pedroca2lucas]

Heyo!

Okay, let's just sum up what happened until we get the logs here.

You were playing as a survivor and wanted to be hostile, that's okay. The thing is, you could've showed that you were hostile at the beginning, we had many people saying that after getting in a bad position, you changed sides. Then you got on the Almayer, I was playing at the time and received an aHelp regarding the Engineering part.

You're probably confused, but the main issue here, is the fact that you changed from friendly to hostile on the Almayer, which is not good. That ending with injured players and a CT missing his head.

Let's talk about your first point though. The aHelp about being hostile.

I then hid in a closet and ahelped about my hostility. I explained the situation and got told (by who I don't know, could really use those logs.) that I could act hostile but needed to follow escalation rules instead of KoS'ing marines. (this is how I remember the ahelp atleast.)

First, if you were actually hostile, after telling the USCM that you didn't want to go, you could've provoked the marines, warning them to not approach, that's the best way to actually show that you're hostile, and then opening fire, what I tried to explain to you over the aHelp was that you went like: Trying to be Hostile -> Friendly -> Hostile on board. Because you actually boarded the Alamo without any issues, you didn't get cuffed and forced to board.

Your second point now, but it isn't the main reason for the ban.

The second part is that I followed escalation rules AFAIK. I got attacked with a wrench, which according to Grimcad (//showthrea...ull=1#post9031) is reason enough to use a lethal weapon. (He said knife, I used a sawn-off shotgun, don't really see the difference between that.)

Okay, BOTH of you need to escalate to guns. For example: Disarming -> Punching -> Knives -> Gun. But we actually went from wrench to gun? You could've attacked him a few times, using a tool or something and after that going to gun. The first lethal is always melee, that's why Grim mentioned the knife.

Anyway, let's wait for the actual logs.

[Imperator Titan]

Pulling up the logs soon.

[Imperator Titan]

Roundstart up until the survivor is brought up to the Almayer

Ahelp sent in regarding how to proceed with hostility and the conversation with the first moderator.

All of his say logs after that incident, up until his eventual death in engineering after being attacked by the MTs.

Conversation with the reported moderator in question and ban.

[GradusNL]

So, I remembered the ahelp correctly.
[14:38:12]ADMIN: PM: Forest2001/(Young Spitter (976))->GradusNL/(Colten 'Colt' McAllister): Don't shoot them, but you don't need to comply aboard the ship if you really don't want to be there. Follow all escalation rules.

He told me I couldn't KoS but I didn't have to be compliant. So I followed what he said and was non-compliant. I only attacked the marines when one of them attacked me. The only issue left is that I missed one 'escalation step' by shooting instead of using melee. I didn't 'turncoat' and suddenly attack the marines without provocation.

[solidfury7]

As the CMP who handled all survivors, I'll put my two cents here.

You were extremely complient, as all survivors were with processing and extraction from the planet.

Upon arriving to the scene in Engineering (which you killed a CT and injured another) you immedietely fired upon me. Your esculation technically would of removed three people at minimum if you were a better aim, all because someone hit you with a wrench.

Take that as you wish.

[GradusNL]

Take that as you wish.

What do you mean? Patently false? Because what you are saying is that.

You were extremely complient

I wasn't. You didn't process all the survivors. Those you did process may have been compliant but I ran out of the Alamo before you even had a chance to see me.
You are mistaking your own incompetence for my compliance. There was one more survivor then you thought, me.

Upon arriving to the scene in Engineering (which you killed a CT and injured another) you immedietely fired upon me. Your esculation technically would of removed three people at minimum if you were a better aim, all because someone hit you with a wrench.

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve by saying this. The rules say you can use lethal force when you would IRL. Almost all tools (such as a wrench) are classified as a deadly weapon, so me using a shotgun on the MT doesn't break rule 14.
You decided to bring CT's along with you on the manhunt, I didn't go out of my way to hunt them down, so don't act like I did something bad by shooting them.

[LittleBlast]

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve by saying this. The rules say you can use lethal force when you would IRL. Almost all tools (such as a wrench) are classified as a deadly weapon, so me using a shotgun on the MT doesn't break rule 14.
You decided to bring CT's along with you on the manhunt, I didn't go out of my way to hunt them down, so don't act like I did something bad by shooting them.

As the RO, I would just like to clarify that we came separately after hearing that Gerdy, a MT who had done us a bunch of favors and had a good relationship this round, was being attacked and was obviously near death. He didnt bring the CT, I did. if that changes anything.

[solidfury7]

What do you mean? Patently false? Because what you are saying is that.


I wasn't. You didn't process all the survivors. Those you did process may have been compliant but I ran out of the Alamo before you even had a chance to see me.
You are mistaking your own incompetence for my compliance. There was one more survivor then you thought, me.


I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve by saying this. The rules say you can use lethal force when you would IRL. Almost all tools (such as a wrench) are classified as a deadly weapon, so me using a shotgun on the MT doesn't break rule 14.
You decided to bring CT's along with you on the manhunt, I didn't go out of my way to hunt them down, so don't act like I did something bad by shooting them.

You were extracted from the planet, along with 3-4 other survivors and because I was short-staffed, I couldn't follow you as you left the dropship because I had 3-4 other people to deal with. To phrase your reply that I didn't see you, somehow on a COMPLETELY empty dropship after you followed me to the dropship, is silly. You weren't processed because you simply ran off when we docked, and I had 3-4 other people who I had to deal with first while you played the self-antag game.

I personally think that you found any excuse to self-antag, is what I'm trying to achieve. You ahelped about trying to be a hostile survivor shipside, was told no. You proceeded to find any excuse to shoot multiple people, after being told you would need a heavy roleplay reason and it'd need to be similar to that of a marine. If a marine now hits me with a toolbox, does that open me up with the ability to shoot them point blank and then proceed to start shooting anyone who comes to investigate? No, because most people would use their noggin and go "Hey, perhaps I should respond with the same level of force and not murder people"

As soon as you boarded the DS1, you lost all rights as a survivor and became more or less a marine. If a marine point-blanked someone and shot multiple others for a flimsy RP reason as you've provided and a few hits of a wrench, they'd be banned. The application of the note is fine and so is the ban.

[GradusNL]

You were extracted from the planet, along with 3-4 other survivors and because I was short-staffed, I couldn't follow you as you left the dropship because I had 3-4 other people to deal with. To phrase your reply that I didn't see you, somehow on a COMPLETELY empty dropship after you followed me to the dropship, is silly. You weren't processed because you simply ran off when we docked, and I had 3-4 other people who I had to deal with first while you played the self-antag game.

So, you admit to me not being compliant. Why did you say I was in the first place? Why should anything else you say be trusted when you blatantly lie?

You ahelped about trying to be a hostile survivor shipside, was told no.

Again, a lie. I wasn't told no. I was told I could be non-compliant and had to use escalation rules. This isn't the same as a hard no.

You proceeded to find any excuse to shoot multiple people, after being told you would need a heavy roleplay reason and it'd need to be similar to that of a marine.

Now you are implying that I sought out the fight with the MT in order to give me reasoning to use lethals. I didn't. As you can see in the logs I was repeatedly disarmed by Tom Dinkle (The CO) in an attempt to arrest me, if I was trying to self-antag I would've shot him instead of running away. I didn't go to Engineering to seek out a fight with the MT, I went there to get building supplies to make a hideout on the ship. I only shot him when he attacked me again after I told him to stop, I shot him and the CE in order to buy me the time to escape the closed room as the MT purposefully closed to door the lock me in.

You proceeded to find any excuse to shoot multiple people

For the reason why I shot the MT and CE, see above. I shot the CT because they opened fire on me first as is clearly visible in the logs and were blocking my escape route.

after being told you would need a heavy roleplay reason and it'd need to be similar to that of a marine.

The part about 'a heavy roleplay reason' wasn't even said, only that I had to follow escalation rules, and the part about it needing to be similar to that of a marine was in response to me asking what I should do if they tried to arrest me, not shoot me. Although a marine in my situation (locked in a room with somebody attacking you with a wrench showing no signs of stopping) would be allowed to do exact same thing IMO.

If a marine now hits me with a toolbox, does that open me up with the ability to shoot them point blank and then proceed to start shooting anyone who comes to investigate? No, because most people would use their noggin and go "Hey, perhaps I should respond with the same level of force and not murder people"

My situation was not the same as a marine hitting me once with a toolbox, as I amply described above. What you are trying to do here is strawmanning.

As soon as you boarded the DS1, you lost all rights as a survivor and became more or less a marine.

Did I act as a typical hostile survivor and attack anyone and everyone I came across? No. I only shot somebody when I was attacked. This exact same situation could have happened if I was a marine and refused to deploy, because I never KoS'ed so I never actually turncoated as you claim.

If a marine point-blanked someone and shot multiple others for a flimsy RP reason as you've provided and a few hits of a wrench, they'd be banned. The application of the note is fine and so is the ban.

You are not a mod or an admin, you don't decide what's allowed and what isn't. You can't make judgments like that.
Only the first sentence you posted contained new information, the rest is just you acting as if you are a proper staff member.