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Thread: A Question of Preference. What plans do you prefer?

  1. #11
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    I litterally don't care what stupid shit the co make me do because I just want to do something that sound like it will work. I don't want to do things just for the sake of bring different.

  2. #12
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    I feel like the dual drops are also map dependent. There are some LZ FOBs that are basically throws and they should be redesigned to be more defend-able

  3. #13
    Senior Member LilPenpusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunk View Post
    The issue is that the game is balanced around murderballs -- for Xenos and Marines.
    For every one plan that splits up the marines and succeeds, there's five where the marines get defeated in detail and evac at 12:37.

    You can have elaborate plans for splitting up and directing the murderball, so long as marines converge again when the fighting actually starts. Windhealer's plans work because marines split up to attack from separate directions before converging into a murderball again.
    This, essentially.

    I think a lot of people in the Community would describe me as a "boring CO" because I always do the meta strat which is ungaballing the same place, everytime. I do try to change things up, have squads flank and all, but as Nunk correctly assessed: it all comes down to the same thing, in the end.

    Marines are just GOING to murderball inevitably, whether Command wants it or not. At this point I'm sort of just giving up on "fancy maneuvers" because there's no point when Marines will either not even listen to the order to begin with and do the meta plan we always do anyways, or they'll eventually end up doing the meta strat anyway, except this time we went through Admin instead of through bar - and oh look, we're fighting the Xenos at Offices. How original. Never seen that one before, boys.


    I also agree that doing "wacky plans for the sake of wacky plans" is not a cool thing either. Windhealer is obviously the first CO that comes to mind, but he's naturally not the only one who tries to change up the pace. But I see literally no point in doing that when it all boils down to the same fucking choke point and killzones anyway. Does it REALLY matter if we rappel all of Delta into Engineering, and send them east to Filt? Yeah, MAYBE they'll cut off the xenos from there. More likely: they'll get fucking torn apart by the entire hive now surrounding them. And if a Deltard lives, they'll either rejoin the main force doing the usual meta strat plan, or limb back to FOB.

    Plans should always be drawn up to fit with a strategy because said strategy is warranted. And while yes, always doing "the meta" can be boring, it can also be a relief not to have to follow mind-numbingly stupid or complex orders which half your squad outright ignores anyways. Sometimes people just want to shoot shit, and that is most readily done by treading the same path you always do, without much thought. Is that a good mentality? Probably not, but it's one that definitely does exist and I don't personally like a constant stream of "odd plans" just for the sake of NOT being the normal, meta strat. But that may just be me. Oh well.
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  4. #14
    Member 4hands44's Avatar
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    Things like the rappeling test merge helped to break up this meta a little bit, but until CM has a massive shake up in how marines deploy/mobility or their ability to build defenses the murderball will continue to be the primary strat why? 3 main reasons and several smaller ones.

    The first main one has bee discussed endlessly here and elsewhere, RP was taken behind the shed and shot, now its just laying in the dirt bleeding out, as the small percent of players who try to RP still hold it up barely. No RP- no strats. Hell in the old days you'd get Survs who'd still be alive and they'd RP with the CMP, CL or Command staff now they just unga. Marines don't RP brief hardly unless by force or through some gimmick. It doesnt help either Command is under the gun to get the marines off the ship as fast as possible unless they want the meta obcessed players to start bitching, or a riot to breakout. So then we end up with bland flavorless briefs where nobody sits in, nobody listens, and the Commander gives a brief that is about as boiled down as they can give something along the lines of "build FOB, Walk to place that makes no sense RP wise, but is meta. Then kill bugs we dont know were here but act like we do in every regard. Like no really, its one thing heading to a colony expecting maybe CLF or UPP to have killed the colonists, Its another to more or less have to give a brief that lists a meta spot, rather than the FAR MORE logical thing of instructing the marines to search places like medical, sec, or dorms for example, trying to find survs or clues. But if you acctually tried that with the current playerbase 9/10 times the entire platoon would ignore you and go to "meta spot" and "unga real good"

    2. LZs are good, Rappeling is even better. I'll be honest, LZs make sense from a gameplay perspective, but despite the wiki saying "you can build FOB anywhere" there are only 2, maybe 3 of the regular maps that you ever will see a true FOB, and not just the LZ caded along with random choke points. The changes to Comms dont help, like no really, why did we get rid of having to repair the colonies' comms that was a much better system it made the fights more dynamic instead of being a game of 2 fort on tf2. Think about it. Current map meta is, Land at the "good LZ or risk being wiped as soon as the xenos find you" then cade it up, while the rest of the platoon walks to "meta spot" then pushes in "map equivilant of caves" wins, or dies, then xenos push to LZ and return the favor. The only exceptions to this are maps like LV, where you have a regular appearance of a true FOB, and even then, in the case of say LV, its the previous list, but now with 1 more siege spot. Instead of a more dynamic fight, where marines might be able to Resonably Have 2 or more spots to have to defend besides an LZ, hell the defend the LZ as a requirement is sorta dumb, I get why it exists, but even in the movie, they dont, and pay for it. It shouldnt be an OOC rule, it should be a matter of gameplay. Maybe marines will be dumb and leave it undefended, or xenos will get unlucky and die in the cockpit, all worth seeing happen. ​

    Making a point that marines have to repair/defend is so much more interesting than just "turn off the poo water on 1 map" It honestly would help break up stagnation and give marines and xenos a new objective beyond just slaughter eachother. you now have to defend the colony's T-Comms, or use RTOs, power could be optional,. It gives post techwebs RTO mains a reason to exist, and engineers more to do than make cades for days.

    This would definitely be nice, but so would also making rappeling a mainline thing, and perhaps even giving marines even mooore mobility to let them realistically use a spot other than a normal LZ as a main fort

    3. The Rp is still dead and the fast paced Team death match is killing it. Really nobody should care if one side wins more than the other within reason Honestly the game was better when it was more asymmetrical and we didnt have cancer like pylons , removing maturity, dumbed down engineering/medical, ect. The game is rigged to go fast no matter how much people say command is tied to the round speed. thats only partially true, the reality is the game is rigged to run shorter than an hour and that right there gives a new issue. If every round is 4-90 minutes. You are going to hear the same boiled down, sped up low RP brief way more often, and there will be less time to try and get crazy strats or maneuvers going. Which if you're hearing the same lazy brief every 40-90 minutes, youl'l be getting burned out a lot more, since its still fresh in your mind than if you have had 2-3 hours of good RP, a long satisfying gun/claw fight, and gotten comfy in the story lines and such that formed that round. Instead now you're having a firefight with big shiny bugs that takes less time than an episode of most TV shows.


    It really shows how bad things are when half the time a brief starts people start yelling out shit they've heard a hundred times instead of let the commander RP a brief




    Then again maybe Im just nuts because I miss old 2 hour FOB sieges

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  5. #15
    Member FoxyShibata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4hands44 View Post

    Then again maybe Im just nuts because I miss old 2 hour FOB sieges
    Same. I miss the grind of holding the FOB. It felt like back in the day you could really lock down, hold every single line, break the xenos on your wall of cades unless they used their brains and flanked a little.
    Now FOB holding is less like securing the wall and instead stemming the tide. There's always damage you can't fix. There's always progress being made on the part of the Xenos. You can't stop it completely, just make it take longer for it to break all the way through.
    A FOB that would have held 2 hours last year holds 30 minutes today, and nothing but a good OB or a suicidal queen will reverse the flow in the marine's favor.

    The only grinds that I see these days are Xenos grinding marines to a pulp in cave chokes. Which is good! I like that that's a thing! In theory, it should encourage more strategy, such as, flanking, false retreats, etc.
    Really though it tends to devolve into 'Can we OB it? If Yes, OB and Push. If No, get capped one by one for an hour until we don't have manpower.'
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  6. #16
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    The biggest problem is usually the disconnect between the map and the mechanics
    On LV for example you can make a good, slow, proper plan. one squad handles electricity, one fortifies hydro etc.... you could even do a proper "this squad takes this cave entrance" approach, this is due to the fog keeping the marines safe the first 10 or so minutes, giving them time to fortify several key spots.
    On Trijent Dam (slam jam) you have to order a charge/rush from A to B and pray to several gods that it goes well
    Why?
    Because xenos are no longer weak at the start of the round like they used to be.
    back when maturity was a thing the xenos could not attack properly in the first 10-15 minutes. the T3s were all to young, the spitters had no strong T3s to team up with, the defenders were old but had no T3s who could follow them up etc.
    Now, if the marines do not attack the hive within the first second of landing on trijent dam, they will in turn be attacked by the xenos who have way more room to retreat and hide. Since the marines have no room to retreat, the FOB will be destroyed and the round is over in ~10 minutes. This can pretty much be applied to every map where the map does not have some kind of limiting factor. In CORSAT for example you'd have to open up the shutters in each sector to bring in the big guns, and that went for both marines and xenos. this also complimented the maturity mechanic because IT TOOK TIME TO DO FOR BOTH SIDES.
    Colonial Marines - Space Station 13 is a decent video game with the wrong maps

  7. #17
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    Lot of good points here I wish devs would pay attention to. Whenever Xenos get full-strength T3s is when they are at their strongest, and the marines only hope to stop a steamroll is to rush the xenos and kill them while they still have superior numbers.
    This then leads to marines, the people who should be slowly investigating the colony and digging in, to be encouraged to rush the xenos first thing and kill as many as possible before half the marines are infected or die.

  8. #18
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    As a beno queeno, probably one of my most fun hives was a viro podlocks hive. It was dumb as shit, we got discovered immediately, but we still managed to drag the marines back in to the caves, and defeat them through good flanks and effective coordination. Part of the general issue with doing dumb shit like that is the fact that people don't like change, and they like loosing even less. Combine those and you have a recipe for trouble.

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