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Thread: People simple refuse to follow orders, briefings are pointless

  1. #1
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    People simple refuse to follow orders, briefings are pointless

    I wanted to post this in general not in USMC/Xeno as I had an observation yesterday.

    During a round on big red, xenos made a flank an managed to breach LZ. We are not talking about a runner sneaking in, but a whole force of xenos moving in, taking over LZ and kicking out comms. Command announced multiple times that LZ was under attack, that LZ had a serious breach and finally that LZ was lost while 10-15-20 marines were still outside, but not far at bridge simply ignored command.

    Sometimes there is an excuse for this. Marines might be too far from LZ. They might think it's just some harassers and chose to ignore it. They might missed the command announcement during a fight.

    None of these happened here, they were very close at the bridge, there were announcement multiple time that it is serious and comms were down, which is a HUGE issue and it was announced multiple times. When you have no comms and nothing is spamming the chat, there is no excuse.

    It went on for so long that xenos managed to wall up LZ exits and even get a boiler in to gas them. Marines still ignored the orders.

    Later that round after hijack, xenos did the same. Marines still had high numbers, so xenos decided to hold DS as usual and slowly spread out. Instead xenos went full retard and started to charge marines with tac shotties one by one. Needless to say a baboon using a laptop mousepad can get a kill with that, so they just died like idiots.


    My point is, why have briefings when marines won't even follow their SL most of the time. All these elaborate tactics by Windhealer and the rest are pointless. 3 seconds after landing marines go unga and run to the front totally disregarding what was said in the briefing. When a squad was tasked to restore power and scout for gaps, AT LEAST half of the squad can't even follow their SL to their first objective 2 minutes in. What makes people think they will follow their SL and do more complex orders?

    Same goes for XO/CO. They announce a general fallback for a reason, too many casualties, OB for pushing, OB for baiting, backline/LZ breaches. Nothing. Marines ignore orders.

    Xenos have the same issue, but at least you can say they are mindless killers not trained professionals. They still should follow queen orders per the rules, yet they also ignore most orders just go to front and unga.

    What is the point of having squads and SLs and orders? I suggest just making all marines equal, skip briefing, skip announcements let them lose after drop and they will fare exactly the same, if not better.

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    I think you're talking about the trijent round not big red :3

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    welcome to tdm cm

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    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Rounds are stale as fuck. Not because of orders, or RP, or dev decisions, its just always the same boring ass xenos to fight with.
    This further evolves into everyone knowing the best SS13 strategy (not CM-SS13, but entire whole SS13 gameplay mechanics favouring this one strategy) which is recognised as "unga ball". That means pouring marines into every chokepoint till beno defences break and then maybe picking up those who died. On beno side it works the same, but instead of dying, they retreat when they hit low health and cooldown on every combat ability instead of dying.

    This works, because SS13 inheritly is made of 15x15 "grids" of what best marines and most benos can see. On top of that, everyone can cover that distance in a second, even the slowest of marines/xenos in the heaviest of armor. And there is no voice chat.
    Thats why 90% of big brain tactics don't work and everyone who played 10-20 full rounds of CM knows that, if not directly, then unconsciously. Even the slowest of gameplay would be too fast for complex tactics. As soon as you see a beno (or beno sees marine) they barerly have time to write "FUCK" in chat before getting killed.
    So the best you can do is to make marines drop 2 squads in main LZ and 2 squads in other LZ, but that is a roll of a dice, either one of those two groups gets easly wiped by beno unga ball, or they live long enough to meet somewhere and form their own unga ball.

    The only solution: Make rounds fresh again. Introduce other antags once in a while. Some rounds make it CLF/UPP/WY/Preds against marines instead of benos. Some rounds make it CLF/UPP/WY/Preds against benos instead of marines.
    This will help till this gets stale too, but will work for a while. SS13 combat rules will still prevail in the end, unga ball will still be the best tactic, unless the other side recognised that other faction doesn't work like simple mob xenos (instead of preds, maybe drop them too, not much of a difference, they work exactly as simple mobs with two working hands and gear slots) and they either jump onto 3 rows of cades with M56D's and die, or force to change tactics.
    REDEMPTION

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    Mentor Obscurify's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Rounds are stale as fuck. Not because of orders, or RP, or dev decisions, its just always the same boring ass xenos to fight with.
    This further evolves into everyone knowing the best SS13 strategy (not CM-SS13, but entire whole SS13 gameplay mechanics favouring this one strategy) which is recognised as "unga ball". That means pouring marines into every chokepoint till beno defences break and then maybe picking up those who died. On beno side it works the same, but instead of dying, they retreat when they hit low health and cooldown on every combat ability instead of dying.

    This works, because SS13 inheritly is made of 15x15 "grids" of what best marines and most benos can see. On top of that, everyone can cover that distance in a second, even the slowest of marines/xenos in the heaviest of armor. And there is no voice chat.
    Thats why 90% of big brain tactics don't work and everyone who played 10-20 full rounds of CM knows that, if not directly, then unconsciously. Even the slowest of gameplay would be too fast for complex tactics. As soon as you see a beno (or beno sees marine) they barerly have time to write "FUCK" in chat before getting killed.
    So the best you can do is to make marines drop 2 squads in main LZ and 2 squads in other LZ, but that is a roll of a dice, either one of those two groups gets easly wiped by beno unga ball, or they live long enough to meet somewhere and form their own unga ball.

    The only solution: Make rounds fresh again. Introduce other antags once in a while. Some rounds make it CLF/UPP/WY/Preds against marines instead of benos. Some rounds make it CLF/UPP/WY/Preds against benos instead of marines.
    This will help till this gets stale too, but will work for a while. SS13 combat rules will still prevail in the end, unga ball will still be the best tactic, unless the other side recognised that other faction doesn't work like simple mob xenos (instead of preds, maybe drop them too, not much of a difference, they work exactly as simple mobs with two working hands and gear slots) and they either jump onto 3 rows of cades with M56D's and die, or force to change tactics.
    this. so much this. staff seem so reluctant to do other gamemodes and it's sad. i've literally gone out of my way to try a dozen new things (like MP, god forbid, it's awful) just to try and spice things up, yet nothing hits like the occasional zombie round (as much as they suck) to break up the monotony, an HvH, or a WO, but none of these things ever seem to be tried anymore.

    allowing people to actually vote for the gamemode rather than having admins have to do it would be cool, too, but that would also require a degree of autonomy and some definite dev changes.
    Last edited by Obscurify; 12-24-2021 at 01:14 AM.
    Joined the fight November 2015

    A strange voice says 'F@c3 m3 1n m0rt@1 c0mb@t'.
    PFC Charles 'Ajax' Hayes says, "Nah."

    Long time CM and forum lurker, change character names and appearances as often as putting on a new pair of socks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Rounds are stale as fuck. Not because of orders, or RP, or dev decisions, its just always the same boring ass xenos to fight with. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurify View Post
    this. so much this.
    Dude this is how we save CM, add in gamemodes poggers!!!!!!!!!!!

    No, this won't do anything. Why is CM stale? Is it just because of the same 'boring ass xenos' to fight, or is it because nothing ever changes? When a marine wakes up, he can gear up, and then walk to the DS and AFK until he drops. Why is this? It is because every round you will do the same exact thing ad nauseum. On LV you will walk to containers, Trijent to eastern labs, and BR to filt. Sometimes there are tiny variations on these walks, but they're not relevant. You could quite easily delete CIC and just automate OBs by having ARES accept coordinates given by RTOs. Very little would change. CM is completely enslaved to the meta.

    Adding funny hvh or some other gamemode will not change this. You will always have meta places to hold/build your base and people will zombie walk to these areas. If you add hvh as a standard gamemode, instead of walking to containers and getting warrior grabbed then flung to brazil, you will walk to containers and get off screen headshot and killed. Nothing has substantially changed. You will have a short term relief as 'something new' (its not new at all) has come up, then we will return here because the zombie meta will form.

    We should, instead, turn our gaze to why exactly it is that normal SS13 is incredibly engaging. The gamemodes are usually dogshit, who actually enjoys rev rounds or gangs for instance? Despite traitor being the most vanilla out of all the gamemodes, its by far my favorite (and I think most people will agree the best) game mode. Why is that? Being a traitor offers you huge amounts of ways to complete your objectives or just do something cool/funny. With those gadgets, you also have a lot of mechanics with which to abuse as well. You have engines, power grids, AIs, chemistry, xenobiology, and more. This opens up huge amounts of creativity and replayability, because its so varied and entirely player driven. One round you could have to deal with a murder boning robusto with an esword, and the next it could be a conspiracy of traitors trying to stealthily undermine the departments and AI until they strike.

    What do we have for mechanics to produce creative solutions to problems or drive player interaction? We have medical, req, and OT to force player interaction. Yet, we have no mechanics. Our last fun thing to do (disposal pipes) was removed. There is nothing to do in CM to overcome the challenge of killing xenos other than walk to the xenomorph and kill it. There is no engineering in CM, there is no research in CM, there is no mining, no atmospherics, no powergrid, nothing. CM is mechanicless outside of medbay's surgery and shooting things. However, CM's surgery is braindead easy to do, and the shooting mechanics in CM are fucking awful.

    The lack of mechanics, the lack of player driving abilities (which are what create and sustain RP) are why CM is stale. No additional gamemode is going to magically solve this crisis. Genuinely new content is very sparse, in 6 months we have gotten two new irrelevant roles (MP Cadet and DCC), a TM for rappelling, a TM for a new gun, and a TM for the old crusher (that seems to have been abandoned) along with removing tech webs. Take a look through the merged tab on gitlab, and then the merge requests (113 at the time of writing.)

    Pick a direction. Go full TDM or go RP. Stop being this awkward middle child where your gameplay is dogshit compared to TGMC and your player driven interactions and continuity/lore is non-existent and what is - is ignored.
    Synth Gaming

  7. #7
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    It's almost like completely abandoning and not supporting an integral part of the game would create a streamlined and stale experience.

    I don't know how this happened, I'm flabbergasted.

  8. #8
    Mentor Obscurify's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4xmaniac View Post
    Dude this is how we save CM, add in gamemodes poggers!!!!!!!!!!!

    -snip-
    honestly fair assessment. i'm always gonna advocate more RP over everything but even then something other than having my nutsack forcibly removed by a haha funny warrior stunlock grab would be pretty awesome once in awhile. given how dumbed down CM has gotten in recent months i'm starting to get a creeping feeling that nothing is gonna be done about it

    also go back to your tree leaf man
    Joined the fight November 2015

    A strange voice says 'F@c3 m3 1n m0rt@1 c0mb@t'.
    PFC Charles 'Ajax' Hayes says, "Nah."

    Long time CM and forum lurker, change character names and appearances as often as putting on a new pair of socks.

  9. #9
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    We've gone too far in the TDM aspect that devs dont want to make other gamemodes.
    It would be fun if we had a dedicated HvH round with auto team balance and actual maps.

    CM became like league of legends and dota 2 patching numbers, adding more skills and champions but its still the same HvX formula.

  10. #10
    Yautja Council Member Usnpeepoo's Avatar
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    i think u should get better at the game

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