Doitallornot - Predator Honor Code

[MaximusRex]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

MaximusRex

Your Character Name?

Jackson 'Shamrock' Dee

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Doitallornot

Accused Character Name

Ku'leluk Sav

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

3:00 AM

What rule(s) were broken:

Predator Honor Code

Description of the incident:

I believe that Doitallornot violated the honor code by hunting me while I was considered innocent prey.

I was playing Jackson Dee the bravo engineer on LV-624, a lowpop early morning round. I was assigned to the FoB and spent the beginning of the match building at the LZ and inner nexus before I ventured out to the front line to help with the siege fortifications. As I made my way to the front, I realize that there were only two other active engineers besides me, and the front was crumpling fast. I jump into the fray, dropping forward plasteel lines, fighting like hell, and having a jolly good time doing it. It�s at this point that I notice that there are predators stalking off in the darkness, watching me, and where my issue with Ku'leluk Sav started.

During the Marine/Xeno fight at the crashed ship, a few things happened.

1 - I killed three-four xenos in front of the predators, who took an interest in me. Stylish point blanks, body blocking crushers, cool shit. This didn�t last long, as the xenos managed to break my siege line and push us back.
2 - As we were pulling back to Hydroponics, I was friendly fired. BADLY. I was shot by at least four different marines, and I accrued a huge amount of shrapnel as well as a broken chest. At this point, knowing I was going to be mainly combat ineffective, I pulled back to the south side of Hydro to prepare fallback fortifications.
3 - Ku'leluk Sav decided to hunt me at this point. Even though I was both wounded by non-predator combat and performing mission critical reinforcements along the Hydro road, he pressed on. Ku'leluk Sav appeared to me outside the fortifications I was building at south Hydro and roared a challenge. I didn't shoot immediately, because that�s not how I roll, and I ordered him to identify himself. He then attempted to disarm me and drag me out of my pillbox, to which I replied with pointblank buckshot. This started a prolonged engagement with multiple predators all trying to kidnap me.

At this point, I even did a few custom emotes about coughing up blood to try and let on that I was not worthy, but they went unnoticed. The fact that I was chest splinted didn�t slow him down either. Something to note was that a researcher was involved, who was trying to tell me that the predators came in peace as Ku'leluk Sav was trying to glaive me to death. I ended up beating the researcher with my shotgun after they tried to help the predator run off with me. However, eventually with the help of Joe, the predators and the marines talking to them conveyed to me that the Predators had something else in mind for me. Joe said that they wanted to take me in for training.

We stopped fighting, and I considered it. I thought to myself "Alright, so the predators see I've slain a damn good number of xenos, but I'm injured. They want to take me to the ship and do some HighRP shenanigans." I begrudgingly leave the safety of my pillbox and joined the predators outside, asking them what their plan is. That's when Sav threw me a sledge-hammer (which I THINK broke my chest splint right off the bat and crippled me further), roared a challenge at me, and killed me in melee combat after I picked it up. Ku'leluk proceeded to decapitate me after my death and leave my shattered body behind for my squad to pick up. I am not going to lie, I felt cheated that Doitallornot used the promise of training and a different flavor of role play to get me to drop my guard. What fun is there in beating down a wounded marine like that?

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

Unfortunately, I wasn't planning on writing this report until after I talked to Doitallornot in deadchat. Becasue of this, I don't have any pictures. However, logs should show me taking a ton of friendly fire, getting a broken chest, and THEN being engaged by Doitallornot.

How you would punish the accused:

A stern warning regarding honor code violations. Doitallornot didn't seem to understand what the issue with his actions were in our discussion afterwards, and I think that's a major failure as far as the white list position is concerned. Innocent prey is innocent for a reason, and hunting them is a big no-no.

[Audi_Gzz]

ill pull the logs for this situation. please standby and please do not go in constant bickering mode if the reported player responds.
EDIT: logs of the first interaction of the preds and Doitallornot watching MaximusRex along with another predator player. In here the player is FF'd and brought back from the dead once and yada yada thus making him wounded.

part where Doitallornot finds jackson and decides to hunt him and take a trophy or duel him. He is also informed that jackson has previous wounds from before the duel.

part where a predator says something about training to Joe, Joe transcribes to Dee yada yada. Dee does the emote of him spitting up blood to show that he's previously injured

[Doitallornot]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

MaximusRex

Your Character Name?

Jackson 'Shamrock' Dee

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Doitallornot

Accused Character Name

Ku'leluk Sav

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

3:00 AM

What rule(s) were broken:

Predator Honor Code

Description of the incident:

I believe that Doitallornot violated the honor code by hunting me while I was considered innocent prey.

I was playing Jackson Dee the bravo engineer on LV-624, a lowpop early morning round. I was assigned to the FoB and spent the beginning of the match building at the LZ and inner nexus before I ventured out to the front line to help with the siege fortifications. As I made my way to the front, I realize that there were only two other active engineers besides me, and the front was crumpling fast. I jump into the fray, dropping forward plasteel lines, fighting like hell, and having a jolly good time doing it. It�s at this point that I notice that there are predators stalking off in the darkness, watching me, and where my issue with Ku'leluk Sav started.

During the Marine/Xeno fight at the crashed ship, a few things happened.

1 - I killed three-four xenos in front of the predators, who took an interest in me. Stylish point blanks, body blocking crushers, cool shit. This didn�t last long, as the xenos managed to break my siege line and push us back.
2 - As we were pulling back to Hydroponics, I was friendly fired. BADLY. I was shot by at least four different marines, and I accrued a huge amount of shrapnel as well as a broken chest. At this point, knowing I was going to be mainly combat ineffective, I pulled back to the south side of Hydro to prepare fallback fortifications.
3 - Ku'leluk Sav decided to hunt me at this point. Even though I was both wounded by non-predator combat and performing mission critical reinforcements along the Hydro road, he pressed on. Ku'leluk Sav appeared to me outside the fortifications I was building at south Hydro and roared a challenge. I didn't shoot immediately, because that�s not how I roll, and I ordered him to identify himself. He then attempted to disarm me and drag me out of my pillbox, to which I replied with pointblank buckshot. This started a prolonged engagement with multiple predators all trying to kidnap me.

At this point, I even did a few custom emotes about coughing up blood to try and let on that I was not worthy, but they went unnoticed. The fact that I was chest splinted didn�t slow him down either. Something to note was that a researcher was involved, who was trying to tell me that the predators came in peace as Ku'leluk Sav was trying to glaive me to death. I ended up beating the researcher with my shotgun after they tried to help the predator run off with me. However, eventually with the help of Joe, the predators and the marines talking to them conveyed to me that the Predators had something else in mind for me. Joe said that they wanted to take me in for training.

We stopped fighting, and I considered it. I thought to myself "Alright, so the predators see I've slain a damn good number of xenos, but I'm injured. They want to take me to the ship and do some HighRP shenanigans." I begrudgingly leave the safety of my pillbox and joined the predators outside, asking them what their plan is. That's when Sav threw me a sledge-hammer (which I THINK broke my chest splint right off the bat and crippled me further), roared a challenge at me, and killed me in melee combat after I picked it up. Ku'leluk proceeded to decapitate me after my death and leave my shattered body behind for my squad to pick up. I am not going to lie, I felt cheated that Doitallornot used the promise of training and a different flavor of role play to get me to drop my guard. What fun is there in beating down a wounded marine like that?

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

Unfortunately, I wasn't planning on writing this report until after I talked to Doitallornot in deadchat. Becasue of this, I don't have any pictures. However, logs should show me taking a ton of friendly fire, getting a broken chest, and THEN being engaged by Doitallornot.

How you would punish the accused:

A stern warning regarding honor code violations. Doitallornot didn't seem to understand what the issue with his actions were in our discussion afterwards, and I think that's a major failure as far as the white list position is concerned. Innocent prey is innocent for a reason, and hunting them is a big no-no.

A few things to note in my defense, while he was injured from FF during our first encounter (where I approached him and he said "identify yourself" as he came at me with a wielded shotgun) he was not showing a health bar. so the only way for me to know he was injured was to examine for a splint. Which at the time was not an option because of the danger I was in, being inches from a shot gun and many other marines. my reaction was to disarm him (barehands, nonelethally) and separate him from the group so as to lower my odds of being murdered. He then PBed me, which makes perfect sense given the situation. After some back and forth fighting (again, not knowing he was injured. ) I did land some hits with the glaive and he landed some heavy hits from this Shottie. I even explained to the other preds spectating that he was a fighter, and that I wish to hunt him. they had no objections to this.


regarding the "duel". I literally heard nothing of the training idea. (it certainly wasn't a clever ruse to get him to come out, that would be 100% bullshit) I remember dee saying something like "you want me?" *walks outs of cades to confront me* "here I am" he removed his materials as if to be preparing for a duel, I gave him a weapon (the hammer, Which 100% did no damage as I threw it, I clearly remember making sure it didn't hit him) and we faught. I won the fight, and was coaxed into taking a trophy by the other preds, the butcher verb is broken so I had to do it the hard way, which caused some trouble.

from my perspective it seemed like a cut and dry hunt/duel.


As for not understanding what I did wrong, I completely understand the honor code and know how to identify prey. I've done so successfully every day since I've been whitelisted with no issue at all. my confusion was with the lack of important information. I was told he was injured before the big fight, I was under the impression that they were referring to the wounds I inflicted prior. I was then told I dragged him out of the FOB which is completely incorrect, he was several paces west of the closest barricade. I do understand that taking out an important part of the marine force like an engie is a big deal, that why I didn't just stunlock murderbone him on the first hit way before the fight. I waited until it seemed like we were fighting to the death, and chose to end the hunt there.


I think that covers everything, the player who was the predator spectating me says he will write a defense for me, I didn't ask him to, but whatever I guess. keep in mind, that this was HIS first round/day as pred.


I would like to personally apologize to MaximusRex for causing all this trouble. I do regret taking you out of the round in such a chaotic and confusing manner for both parties. I hope I can redeem myself in your eyes in a future game. Early on, you were one of the first players that I looked to for good RP. I genuinely hope to be as skilled as you are in CM one day. Thanks for reporting me. (I mean it). I will certainly evolve as a player from this experience regardless of the action taken.

[Tactical 445]

I am going to reply to this tomorrow when I am not so tired. I was the predator spectating it all.

Edit: Just some clarification, this is like my third day playing pred as of now.

[TheMusician321]

The council is investigating this at the moment. Witness testimonies and logs are appreciated.

[Tactical 445]

Okay so I have a little time to make my reply, on my phone so excuse any errors.

It all started when me and Doitallornot were kinda just hanging out east of hydro, just north of the road. We suddenly heard Dee shouting from the distance, �IDENTIFY YOURSELVES� and watched him proceed to wield his shotgun. Now we approach for a little RP encounter, but Dee seems rather aggressive, his health bar was at full, and the encounter happened rather quickly. He approached Doitallornot with the shotgun seemingly ready to PB. Now personally I believe this is where it all went wrong. I probably woulda just backed up, but Doitallornot instead disarmed him and dragged him a little bit away from the other marines. With justification for being grabbed, Dee point blanked Doitallornot, thus sparking the very long conflict that would later occure.

After being shot, Doitallornot hit Dee quite a lot, clearly shattering some bones. At the time we thought he wasn�t wounded at all. So when I personally later examined Dee and saw he was wearing splints, I indeed assumed that they were caused from the first contact between Doitallornot.

It would finally get to the point where Dee and my fellow pred had a chance to look at each other without fighting. I suggested to Doitallornot that he should end this conflict with a duel, as did the third predator watching. He seemed to agree and went outside of fitness to await Dee. Dee verbally and visually knew what was going on, saying things like �man they really want me� and discarding his materials and what not, saying �I am going to regret this� he would step outside where Doitallornot offered him a weapon, he accepted it and seemed ready to fight. Now the whole training thing was not confirmed at all, and we never told Joe that was what was going down. We verbally stated multiple times in front of joe indications that this was a duel. We even told him to translate to the others that they are not to interfere.

The duel starts and Dee is cut down. He willingly came out of the barricades to face whatever conflict that was at his doorstep. I do not understand why he didn�t evac, apparently he had more than one soon to be fatal wounds, being held together by splints and quick clot. Even with the wounds, he still fought Doitallornot, and we still belived the wounds to be inflicted from Doitallornot. Again, I believe his evac was long over due. But again, sometimes marines just tank the injuries and stick around, so I�m not really sure.

To conclude, I believe Doitallornot did indeed go a little wrong with the disarm, but shouldn�t be really punished due to the complicated circumstances and confusing perceptions/views about what was going on.

[MaximusRex]

So, something I want to clarify about the whole situation is that I did NOT try to initiate hostilities. When I gave you guys an order to identify yourself, I was quite literally hiding inside my sandbag line south of Hydroponics. Doitallornot roared at me, charged, and tried to disarm/drag me out. I even gave a warning for you two - "Back off buddy!". At that point I was fighting for my life as the two of you attacked me and other marines in the area. In addition, neither of you actually talked to me directly. The only RP you had with me was trying to kidnap/murder me. Everything your group said was filtered through Joe, in which he implied to me that you all had potential training in mind. The third predator, Jayfeather, did indeed propose such a thing. I would NOT have accepted a direct duel offer in that situation. I guess you were too excited taking my head to heed him, however.

As for the fight, I intentionally left my materials in Hydro because of how fire the situation was, and I was STILL under the impression you guys were taking me somewhere for training/healing/predator party games. Once I stepped into the open and you threw the weapon at me, I still was thinking that this was some kind of test. However, it occurred to me that you might just be baiting me out to kill me, and at that point I chose my fate. I very well could have ran back into my fortifications, dragged you three back into the fight, and wrapped up all the marines in the fiasco. But at that point, I was more than annoyed OOC, and righteously angry IC. I figured that if you decided to break the code and finish me off despite my injuries, at least my fellow marines wouldn't have to suffer from trying to protect me.

Bottom line, in character, Jackson made his choice and died for it. I the player stand by it, and Jackson the character would stand by it as a spirit. It was mighty cathartic for Dee to finally whomp on you with a sledgehammer. My issue with you, Doitallornot, is that I shouldn't have been forced into such a position to make that choice in the first place. It is as easy as two click to identify whether or not someone is wounded via examine, minimal effort. It requires only slightly more than basic tactical and game knowledge to realize that killing off one of the Marine forces only active engineers during a siege will heavily unbalance the match. In fact, within ten minutes, the Hydro fell to the aliens and my comrades were slaughtered on their way back to the FoB, across a now unprotected road. The fact that you failed to observe and contemplate these matters is concerning, and did indeed screw up my round. I think it was a poor example of how the white list should be played, because being a predator puts power in your hands that can make a break a round for either side if used improperly. I'll await the councils decision on the matter.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Council has reviewed the logs, and evidence.

It boils down to that although both doitornot and tactical may have seen 100% health bars, we still expect predators to examine potential prey both humans and xenos. A marine can still be at 100% health if they've been stablized/splinted even with broken bones and or missing limbs. A marine who is missing a limb or has a broken bone, is not fighting at its full potential.

That being said there are a few minor mitigating circumstances

-Predators are currently bugged and cannot get a translator at the moment, most rounds predators have had to do everything by emotes and/or synth translation. Predator roleplay these past few days has been a little bit more difficult without the translator verb

-The current predator in question is newer and doesn't have a history of bad misconduct. Based on his response, we believe he now understands what he did wrong

-The reporter themselves are requesting: "A stern warning regarding honor code violations"


Based on this, we sustain the allegation that the victim in this case was innocent prey. We have come to an agreement that doitallornot will be receiving a warning for this violation.

[Tactical 445]

Just want to clear something up, I never personally attacked Dee. Maybe not on purpose, but I seriously doubt it, and am certain I didn't try to kill him.

We were allowing Doitallornot to fight Dee himself.

I was just sitting on the sideline watching pretty much, the only time I got involved was in fitness when someone tried to attack me, but those were totally different marines. I believe I even tanked one of Dee's point blank buckshot's south of medical at one point, to where I just ran off.

I also want to add something else, when we were first encountering Dee, he was building on some windows at fitness I think, or the fence, I can 100% confirm he was not behind any barricades because when he was disarmed, he was pulled quite literally directly east, if he was behind sandbags that would have not been possible.

[Emerald Blood]

Prey should be adequately healthy when starting any duels or hunts, or the hunted should be making the first move to show their willingness to fight. The situation itself was rather complex in layers and also seemed to have a fair amount of miscommunication involved in it, but ultimately still falls on the Hunter's lap. The whole translation issue will simply be left as a IC factor. With that said, this hasn't caused a huge disaster and Doitallornot didn't have ill intent with these actions. As such, he will be getting a warning to be more careful when engaging prey to make sure they're adequately healthy and able to put in a fair fight, should they have been damaged prior to any hunting.

Resolved - Warning given to Doitallornot to be more careful regarding hunting wounded prey; I imagine we won't have problems like this in the future from them.