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Thread: Surv Death Meta Returns

  1. #1
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    Surv Death Meta Returns

    With the sent rework changes, survivors have lost their neuro immunity and their super bones, meaning they’re weaker than they had ever been before. If you do not play survivor, you might not know what the meta was for a while when they gave surv extra endurance. The meta was to run around and stay on the move, scavenging and hoping that the robust xeno players were feeling brain dead and died easily to you. Generally speaking, you didn’t hunker down behind cades except in certain maps and circumstances.

    This was pretty unpopular to say the least with a lot of people, especially xeno players. However, allow me to explain why this meta evolved. Survivor has gone through a number of meta shifts, but the one before the “protagonist” meta, you had the death meta. The death meta arrived with scatter sent, and sents in general, being able to effortlessly perma sleep you. This was compounded by the massive defensive nerfs to both cades and walls. Cades being made into paper, and every t2 (and half the t1s) able to break open walls. The death meta essentially killed the survivor role, and very few people continued to play it despite it having been a very popular and enjoyed role beforehand. Due to what amounts to the murder of a role, a compromise was made which gave survs the ability to not have their bones broken instantly and to have immunity to sents. Due to the aforementioned cade and wall nerfs, it made your survival chances actually improve in most circumstances by not cading and instead roaming. Thus, the protagonist meta was born.

    Now, let us take stock of the situation. The survivors no longer have immunity or bone break resistance, they do not have cades as they did before, nor do they have walls. The only proposed change is to give them armor around the map, but that fundamentally misunderstands survivor combat. You primarily fight t1s (runners/sents) and t2s (lurkers/warriors.) Speed here is key, you have at most 2 minutes to grab all your gear, find a place, and get set up. God forbid you get a larva rusher. If you have to wear armor that dramatically slows you down, and if you’re carrying it, it takes up a hand slot that could be used to carry gear. Essentially, you have given survivors an impossible choice of: Die to a runner, Die to a sent and a runner, die to a sent. This doesn’t include the self root for a few seconds to put the armor on. By the point you run into a sent or a runner, it’s probably too late. You will get blasted with neuro or you will get pounced. If you wear the armor, you are incredibly easy to pounce for a runner, and still incredibly easy to slow as a sent, making it even easy for runners.

    To sum it up, the recent survivor nerfs have not given the role any kind of compensation. The role is weaker than it ever has been, and it’s basically back to an unplayable state. You are a free capture for any sent player, your cades are worthless, and you can’t even use walls to defend you. The proposed compensation changes aren’t fitting with survivor gameplay. To those who say “survivors shouldn’t be protags” I agree, but look to why they became them. The underlying issues are not fixed, it’s impossible in most circumstances to hold cades. You can’t build walls instead, and now if you try to roam you will just get sent neuroed and killed.

    The dev team should work to fix the underlying issues of survivor gameplay, not just make bandaid fixes thst won’t change anything meaningfully. The issues are the lack of any prep time(new surv players get crushed even worse btw), lack of any meaningful defensive options, and the sent hell that’s returned.
    Synth Gaming

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    This is not to mention maps like LV have nearly no equipment for survivors. The actual armory spawn is rare, and the only gamer gear you get is a box incen slugs. You get 25 sandbags, 20 plasteel, and a handful of extra metal. There’s one weysec armor vest (only armor survs can use, doesn’t get the neuro resistance I believe and one lurker pounce will still instant kill you if you’re wearing it.) there’s a flamer, but it’s locked in secure and unless you get lucky with the armory spawn for the C4, enjoy CBT of essentially drilling your way in. (There’s a reason secure holds are rare now.)
    Synth Gaming

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    Who cares about survs? They are an afterthought and shouldn't be even considered for any kind of balance for either side.

    Treat it as that good ol'30-70 winrate HRP marine golden not rose-tinted at all era, the one leaf man talks about a lot.

    Go survivor, spawn as one, suicide, respawn as beno. The only correct way to play. Or hide in a locker under one minute, you should be fine, unless meta beno brothers are on the server, because while normally benos never check lockers, they will start randomly doing so when you hide there.

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    Whitelisted Captain TyroneDadWhisperer's Avatar
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    Remove survs simple as

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    Member FoxyShibata's Avatar
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    >Remove Surv

    What a sad day it is that one of the few roles left with solid RP potential and dynamic ways to play is just calling to be removed instead of being balanced in the slightest.

    What was the logic behind neuro permastunning people without armor anyway? Was 'people without armor' really that big of a fucking menace? When a stiff breeze will break all the bones in their chest? Remove that.
    A lonesome cowboy, a chilled out broski, or an executive intern.


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    Senior Member Usnpeepoo's Avatar
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    Survivor should be a role outside of normal CM balance like preds. They don't deserve shit honestly, and if they are nerfed to nothing good let the robust players actually strive to come out on top with those odds and actually survive.

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    No, because predators still get updates, items, buffs and you know this. Hellhounds are being reworked, monkey is helping the WL, and Ordo before quitting was pretty big into giving the preds love. The only thing survs don't have that the preds do is that, a dev who wants to give them love. Its a popular role, one that's almost always fully taken and a hard fight to get. Why would essentially destroying that role be good for the game? There's no reason for them to be 'outside normal CM balance' when you can quite easily add them to CM balance. The major complaint against survs was they were protagonist shitheads, and they're not anymore. Even at the end of the 'protagonist meta,' it was incredibly easy to cap or kill survivors. Now its literally easier than ever before. Why should you relegate a role to that?
    Synth Gaming

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    Dev Team Manager Stan_albatross's Avatar
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    in the coming days I am going to put more armour on maps
    Karl Karlsson, the man (and sometimes Captain)
    Maxwell, the synth
    Enhath'vot Guan-Dha, the predator
    Also a feature Coder & CM's Maintainer Team Manager

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    adding more armour on to maps an't going to help, survivors STILL have to deal with being rushed and metaed to high fuck, now not only have the Survivor to readied ratio been lowered in a recent MR, APCs are also fully breakable by fucking defenders (So good luck getting anywhere to hunker down) shit balancing has lead to this.

    Frankly a reasonable fix(for the senti issue) is to remove the unarmoured instant knockdown and no I don't give a fuck if that increased the amount of marine running service jackets it's there choice if they want no defence deal with.


    (For people wondering about the Actual time line for survivor buffs[from memory])

    Endurance was added back during the early days of corsat back then it literally only reduced bone break/pain, This was mainly added due to runner legit instantly decapping/delimbing people back then(It was a pretty regular thing)

    Next major "Buff" survivors got was the anti neuro which was added in due to unarmoured neuro change <--- Key point here(Most of us just wanted it gone instead and were fine with senti's stunning us in three hit's)

    Then survivors got a larger stack of metal due to the increased cost for making barricades.

    After that survivors were given better round start weapons, no longer spawning with spades or brief cases This was a big one but honestly did fuck all to counter act the large change that caused it in the first place(Removal of maturity/Increased Evo speeds)

    Off the top of my head those are the Direct buff that survivors have had over the past likely 4-5 years, this doesn't include tweaks like spawning with weapons that an't the HG.
    Last edited by Digitalattack; 01-23-2022 at 01:36 AM.

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    Member FoxyShibata's Avatar
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    Yeah. Every survivor ''''''''Buff''''''' hasn't been a buff to make survivors better, it's been to make them survive xeno powercreep.
    Mechanically, with endurance Survs were as stronger than they had ever been, BUT, It was still a hard fucking role.

    Try to hold out? You are at the mercy of T3s and the queen eye, if they decide to give a shit about your existence, it's over.
    Try to roam? You're not going to be killing any xenos with enough braincells to move in a group of at least 2, or any xenos with the basic survival instinct of staying on weeds. The only xenos that got killed by 'Survivor gangs' were idiots who were hunting on their own.

    And newsflash!
    Xenos tend to hunt alone because it tends to fucking work! If you, a lurker, or warrior, or even a fucking runner get the drop on 9/10 lone survivors, they're dead.

    The entire '''problem''' of protag survs comes from the xeno entitlement idea that survs should basically be free kills and nothing else.
    A lonesome cowboy, a chilled out broski, or an executive intern.


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