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Thread: Removing MP Protections (As a MP Main)

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    Removing MP Protections (As a MP Main)

    Hello. this is really me spit balling as a old time vet of CM. MP is really fun to play for me, but it pains me.

    A history lession if you will.

    Right, back in my day, MP's couldn't fire on marines. They couldn't harm a single soul, if they did, they would get banned/told to chill out. Combat logs at that time, i assume were etched on a stone tablet and you shooting a greifier made the tablets very messy and hard to read. MP equipment at this time was unusable by marines. The rounds took way longer, a average round was 2 hours, spilling into 3 hours. Being a MP meant doing nothing for a hour, defending the hanger, then dying at pods. It was stale. The marines being unable to use MP equipment and gear made sense, as you couldn't shoot you without it being a greifing offense.

    Recently, after a year or so, i got back into CM. I found the MP role to be very very simulating indeed. My first round back, i had people shooting at me! I had MT's messing with me and giving me reasons to play it. I deal with MT's hijinks, window smashers, drug cartels and feeling that rush when i managed to capture someone i had been looking for, or get into a chase, because i knew there was real stakes.

    However... and it pains me to say it.... while the options for how people can respond to MP's have changed, MP ID locks and other measures ensure that MP's have a massive leg up over marines... and they blow it every god damn time. The problem is, the MP role doesn't allow for robust people, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, a bad MP can do pretty decent. A robust MP can use their brain to find people who are hiding, or solve crimes, or not give the MT that hacked a single door 21031023102301203123 minutes in the brig.

    I think removing some of these restrictions would increase the skill gap. Let's take squad marine for instance, a unskilled marine is unable to do much, and often is another meatsheild for those who are good. Those are are the most skilled can influence rounds entirely by their own actions. Without a incentive for MP's to become good, no MP ever reaches it. What was the last time a recognizable person came from the MP department? Some CMP's, but never a MP.

    The removing of ID locks in weapons and other MP equipment allows MP's to get humbled, per say. A MP that gets dunked on every round by marines they are trying to arrest is going to A. quit being a MP B. or be a robust MP.

    Only through fostering a environment for MP's to get gud will MP's ever get good.
    Cayden 'Prisoner' Mary - CMP Main, long time player, all time hater and enjoyer of MP's

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    At the very least, they aught to remove the 1 minute stun you get from picking up a stunbaton if you don't have the skill.

    If an MP gets their baton disarmed from them, that's their fucking fault for losing it. It's not they don't have tasers, flashes, pepper spray, flash bangs, tear gas, or just their high CQC Skill to turn to if they lose the baton.
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    You know. I never thought a section of cm that at best designed as dead weight would get that much thought. The military police has been in a failure state for over a year now afiak. I don't think there's anything worthwhile giving them anymore attention is worth anyone's time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aces View Post
    You know. I never thought a section of cm that at best designed as dead weight would get that much thought. The military police has been in a failure state for over a year now afiak. I don't think there's anything worthwhile giving them anymore attention is worth anyone's time.
    I want to play MP knowing that it is my skill at playing said role that makes me stand out. You might see good MP's for once, if they were forced to get gud.
    Cayden 'Prisoner' Mary - CMP Main, long time player, all time hater and enjoyer of MP's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daman453 View Post
    Hello. this is really me spit balling as a old time vet of CM. MP is really fun to play for me, but it pains me.

    A history lession if you will.

    Right, back in my day, MP's couldn't fire on marines. They couldn't harm a single soul, if they did, they would get banned/told to chill out. Combat logs at that time, i assume were etched on a stone tablet and you shooting a greifier made the tablets very messy and hard to read. MP equipment at this time was unusable by marines. The rounds took way longer, a average round was 2 hours, spilling into 3 hours. Being a MP meant doing nothing for a hour, defending the hanger, then dying at pods. It was stale. The marines being unable to use MP equipment and gear made sense, as you couldn't shoot you without it being a greifing offense.

    Recently, after a year or so, i got back into CM. I found the MP role to be very very simulating indeed. My first round back, i had people shooting at me! I had MT's messing with me and giving me reasons to play it. I deal with MT's hijinks, window smashers, drug cartels and feeling that rush when i managed to capture someone i had been looking for, or get into a chase, because i knew there was real stakes.

    However... and it pains me to say it.... while the options for how people can respond to MP's have changed, MP ID locks and other measures ensure that MP's have a massive leg up over marines... and they blow it every god damn time. The problem is, the MP role doesn't allow for robust people, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, a bad MP can do pretty decent. A robust MP can use their brain to find people who are hiding, or solve crimes, or not give the MT that hacked a single door 21031023102301203123 minutes in the brig.

    I think removing some of these restrictions would increase the skill gap. Let's take squad marine for instance, a unskilled marine is unable to do much, and often is another meatsheild for those who are good. Those are are the most skilled can influence rounds entirely by their own actions. Without a incentive for MP's to become good, no MP ever reaches it. What was the last time a recognizable person came from the MP department? Some CMP's, but never a MP.

    The removing of ID locks in weapons and other MP equipment allows MP's to get humbled, per say. A MP that gets dunked on every round by marines they are trying to arrest is going to A. quit being a MP B. or be a robust MP.

    Only through fostering a environment for MP's to get gud will MP's ever get good.
    Honestly, the suggestion that nerfing MP equipment is such a tired argument that I see every year or two, but it could not be further from the truth.

    MP tools are at the weakest they have been in CM history, especially for new MPs, this was done so agents would have an easier time, but the changes were never reverted when agents were deemed a failed experiment.

    For example, in comparsion to the old tools.

    Tasers start with IFF mode on (No visual indicator for new people nor prompt) meaning they cannot taser anyone until corrected
    Tasers are limited shots before charge and take three hits compared to the old slow boomer taser which was one shot.
    Stunbatons are worse and take multiple hits, and hold a poor charge.
    Flashes are still broke (Although this has been a bug for a long time)
    Pepperspray is only useful if placed in cleaner bottles.
    Flashbangs are locked to mobbing and riot/blue alerts+.
    Riot Tools are a little nicer than previously but riot shotguns are bugged and beanbags are limited.

    I could go on but I honestly have had this conversation I should make a copypasta for it.

    During peaks of "weak MP gear", OOC restrictions are added to compensate for the weak kit, because it usually results in a common cycle of MPs getting robusted/lynched unless they are hardcore MPs who arm up for a full scale riot at round start, which normally gets out of hand too easily as the MPs are too easily pacified.

    During peaks of "strong MP gear", there were fewer restrictions to interfering with MPs, because the baseline MP was expected to be able to handle it with the strong kit they had, and if the marines managed to out-wit and out-robust the MPs, because it wasn't every single round, it was allowed, meaning that riots, while not as common, when they did occur were left ICly.


    But yeah, making gear worse has always had the opposite effect than many people who advocate it realise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidfury7 View Post
    Honestly, the suggestion that nerfing MP equipment is such a tired argument that I see every year or two, but it could not be further from the truth.

    MP tools are at the weakest they have been in CM history, especially for new MPs, this was done so agents would have an easier time, but the changes were never reverted when agents were deemed a failed experiment.

    For example, in comparsion to the old tools.

    Tasers start with IFF mode on (No visual indicator for new people nor prompt) meaning they cannot taser anyone until corrected
    Tasers are limited shots before charge and take three hits compared to the old slow boomer taser which was one shot.
    Stunbatons are worse and take multiple hits, and hold a poor charge.
    Flashes are still broke (Although this has been a bug for a long time)
    Pepperspray is only useful if placed in cleaner bottles.
    Flashbangs are locked to mobbing and riot/blue alerts+.
    Riot Tools are a little nicer than previously but riot shotguns are bugged and beanbags are limited.

    I could go on but I honestly have had this conversation I should make a copypasta for it.

    During peaks of "weak MP gear", OOC restrictions are added to compensate for the weak kit, because it usually results in a common cycle of MPs getting robusted/lynched unless they are hardcore MPs who arm up for a full scale riot at round start, which normally gets out of hand too easily as the MPs are too easily pacified.

    During peaks of "strong MP gear", there were fewer restrictions to interfering with MPs, because the baseline MP was expected to be able to handle it with the strong kit they had, and if the marines managed to out-wit and out-robust the MPs, because it wasn't every single round, it was allowed, meaning that riots, while not as common, when they did occur were left ICly.


    But yeah, making gear worse has always had the opposite effect than many people who advocate it realise.
    A man who knows his MP, i respect all that you had to say. Personally, i don't see how MP gear could be strong and powerful while also being useable by marines.

    I never wanted stun batons to not be a one hit stun, or tasers to be. The IFF feature is very useful, but yes, it needs to more clear on the mode. Pepper spray and flash needs to be looked at well. MP's need stronger tools and for some of the protective measures to be revoked. I think we can strive a balance here, what do you think?
    Cayden 'Prisoner' Mary - CMP Main, long time player, all time hater and enjoyer of MP's

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    idk staff do their job kinda you dont have anyone in hte open screaming the n word or explicitly griefing but theres a large divide between the action that staff take vs whats deserved. that and some events actively harm the rp standards of the server. if it was up to me there would ZERO neon haired marines running around. i like that officers are held to higher standards but wish there were more competent roleplayers. but take this with a grain of salt if i really had my way in retrospect i would of never been uncbanned i just hope we have a blackout event like from bladerunner where everything digital is scrubbed so i cant be associated with cm or anyone from here

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    The MP removal test rounds went well and showed MPs aren’t really needed. The role should be held to a higher standard than it is, MPs who consistently fuck up on important stuff should be noted and jbanned if it continues. CMPs should be monitored closely for griefing because many CMP players use the role just to grief marines, see the beck PR screenshots. The problem with MP in my eyes is that it’s not a two way street. MPs aren’t really held to a higher standard, but have the power to override COs, XOs, and arrest essentially anyone they want to, and despite this power very little OOC responsibility is placed on them. MPs shouldn’t have OOC protections and, essentially, absolute power over the marines side without having that same OOC punishment directed back at them. Even with the recent “tough” changes, I haven’t seen any improvements. Sure how retarded MPs get demoted to rifleman, but who cares? I still see MPs spawn in cryo and insult the CO or SEA right off the bat like it doesn’t matter. If you want to give MPs lots of power and authority, that comes with a price. As it stands, a CMP has more power over the ship than an XO and has the ability to countermand CO orders via faxing staff and no punishment for frivolous arrests or any other fuck ups.
    Synth Gaming

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daman453 View Post
    A man who knows his MP, i respect all that you had to say. Personally, i don't see how MP gear could be strong and powerful while also being useable by marines.

    I never wanted stun batons to not be a one hit stun, or tasers to be. The IFF feature is very useful, but yes, it needs to more clear on the mode. Pepper spray and flash needs to be looked at well. MP's need stronger tools and for some of the protective measures to be revoked. I think we can strive a balance here, what do you think?
    I personally think MP tools should be locked to those with the skills (I wouldn't be against Command and SLs having some access though as they technically in the past used to handle survivors/rogue marines planetside).

    I do think there are options out there currently which allow chaps with a bit of forward thinking to get the upper hand on an MP. I've seen a lot of tricks over the years and honestly, there are tools out there which quite literally shut an MP down for a considerable amount of time.

    I personally see it similar to the Spy Vs Mercenary game mode from the Splinter Cell games. The MPs have an overwhelming advantage head to head in a one on one, while a marine who approaches the situations with more stealth, cunning and planning can take out the MP.

    I do agree that marines should have a special ammo type which should be available for authorised mutinies and perhaps riots which would give them non lethal ammo (make shift barons exist currently), as I think that it'd open the door to actually more fulfilling interactions, as honestly I feel like mutinies right now are rushed because everyone knows xenos are inbound. (So we'd have to look in to a way to perhaps give players more chance to make use of this without killing the xenos with boredom too, lots of moving parts alas)
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidfury7 View Post
    The MPs have an overwhelming advantage head to head in a one on one, while a marine who approaches the situations with more stealth, cunning and planning can take out the MP.

    oh I see what you did there leave all the thinking to the marine....

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