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Thread: Economicairborn - Rule 3(being a dick)/4 (grief)

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    Economicairborn - Rule 3(being a dick)/4 (grief)

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Sandvich123

    Date of Incident
    April 12, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Nasoki 'Coward' Chen

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Economicairborn

    Accused Character Name
    Kenneth Lance

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    8:00 CUT (around there)

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 3(being a dick)/4 (grief)

    Description of the incident:
    I just woke up around 12:20 into the round. Briefing was still going on the time I finished prepping 12:27. I hear the plan is LZ2 FOB on Science Annex and it's confirmed by the status. I won't go into the specifics, but LZ2 has more disadvantages than LZ1. I tell the XO I'm taking over briefing and give my plan laying it out to the marines (marines receive this positively). My original plan was to deploy, but when I returned to CIC to do my final checkup before I deployed, the XO tells me they no longer want to command and tell me I must stay due to CO guidelines. I was excited, it had been a while since I did CIC, and I was ready to settle in for some good Shipside RP. I was a bit off put that the XO was using the CO guidelines to control me, but didn't care much. Kenneth stayed around for OW. Passive remarks were given during the operation by the XO that his plan was better and mine was failing due to marines being too spread out. The XO suggest to make a bravo FT1 to help with front. I say that's a good idea and to order. This is where the main problem begins. The XO says he can not. I was confused and after the last passive remarks I was at my last straw with him in CIC (of course all IC, I wasn't actually frustrated at this time). I yell at them they're a senior officer in the USMC, and don't need my authorisation to give squads orders for the op. I tell them to leave if he can not handle giving basic orders to squad instead of just call outs. They leave CIC so I order the MPs to arrest them for NOD. MPs arrest them, Kenneth complies with little issue. I keep going with the op then have power issues due to Shipside events with PMCs and insurance (which I didn't know at the time, I was too busy dealing with the XO and OP as I was solo in CIC now). Jamicans came onboard for gear retrieval from a fallen pred that we took onboard. The Shipside situation got worse with power issues and me losing the ability to communicate with marines due to comms going out and OW consoles losing power. (I thought the MT Shipside could handle it and I got too busy with the XO that re-appared just to snip the wire back). While powers going out and I'm more focused on the op, Kenneth is released. Kenneth comes back to CIC (by this point I'm a bit frustrated by all the issues that aren't allowing me to do CIC and the XO acting like a child before with the passive aggressive remarks). The XO request they be allowed back in CIC. I ask them if they're ready to give orders, they respond they're unable too cause of my authority. I tell them to go to req, and that they would be demoted. On code red the XO decides it would be time to demand an appeal for the demotion, and refuse to head to req saying it would be NOD for them to do that. I tell them to leave CIC as I have too many issues to deal with him. They refuse, I give them a partial appeal. The appeal made me positive Kenneth was soft griefing by keeping the XO job and refusing to do his job and was focused on being right rather than helping the marines. The appeal goes south turning into an argument with the CMP being lost in-between us (I want logs to specifically back me up here) as Kenneth did the thing that annoyed me the most. They started to twist ML and my words, out of context to help them. Then the FOB collapses while I'm taking to the XO and CMP (The CMP had just woken up). Marines are wipped ground side and a few make it out on the Normandy. The round ends with me being crushed by the ERT shuttle (which I thought was the funniest thing of the round). To sum it up, I changed to my plan, the XO didn't like it, used a rule to keep me Shipside, and then acted like a SO plus and was removed for that

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Logs will state everything I have said

    What resolution are you seeking?
    A job ban. Far too long Kenneth Lance has put up plans that aren't fun or interesting, but get the marines massacred. They've also gone against COs more than once, and they've had more munities under them than I can count. It's against staff policy to ban someone for being incompetent, but by now something has to be done to let them know they're ruining the fun of the server for other players.

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    a few grammatical errors due to me being on my phone at the time of posting this. I'll edit it when I can to fix it. If anything is unclear with my grammar please let me know

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    also I didn't mean to say SO plus in the resolution. A SO gives orders to the squad, where to move etc, so I guess I could say an observer at most

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    Last piece of sugar before I go handle something else besides this 2d game. I'm being told that briefing was delayed by Kenneth on purpose and would've gone longer if I hadn't taken over. Apparently they had kept marines in briefing for four minutes (does not take that long to do briefing) and when I took over briefing it was already 12:27. I finished briefing in a minute due to us being late and then the rest happened.

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    I was the SO not mentioned here. i had spawned in way late in the round but when i was in the round i did see kenneth come back from brig and refuse to go to req and keep the CO stuck in the CIC with a predator shipside and a failing fob we couldnt help due to the APC being messed up and not being fixed due to his appeal. even after CO said he would drop the NOD charge kenneth kept him sitting in the cic locked talking to the CO. Do take my words with a grain of salt as i do not fully remember the events in the cic between them as i was mostly watching comms

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    while there were about 5 different factors that led to the complete disaster of this operation, I can say that Kenneth's brief was probably one of the most significant factors in the early loss of unit cohesion, although I remember you showing up at 12:25, not 12:27 but I may be mistaken.

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    Hello.

    I am the accused, I'll be replying to some parts of the player report while logs are being pulled.

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    Your attitude toward me that round felt like a meta grudge for all prior interactions.

    Please let me know if you have any questions or comments, I'll do my best to answer them.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economicairborn View Post
    Hello.

    I am the accused, I'll be replying to some parts of the player report while logs are being pulled.

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    Your attitude toward me that round felt like a meta grudge for all prior interactions.

    Please let me know if you have any questions or comments, I'll do my best to answer them.
    Hey Econ. I'm sorry you had to read through this...poorly written PR. Turns out I can't edit them! Sorry to whichever staff member needs to read this and pull logs.
    Onto what you said

    While I have originally announced briefing to be held at 12:20 in the briefing room, I have rescheduled it to 12:18 hoping that Squad Leaders would attend in time to start early. Unfortunately, not all SLs were present, and I've decided to delay briefing by a minute or two awaiting their arrival. I was not delaying briefing on purpose, it is my duty as the ship's commander, the ranking officer in charge, to ensure a proper, informative briefing, before any operation is being held.

    CM-SS13 is a medium roleplay server, and command roles are held to a higher standard. I have tried to roleplay as a senior officer to the best of my abilities by presenting clear and useful communication of facts and information for a Search and Rescue operation from an In Character perspective. It would be LRP for a senior officer to send in marines without giving any background information or the purpose of the operation.
    You couldn't be more right here! SS13 is a MRP-HRP sever with Command roles being held to a higher standard. The reason I brought this briefing up and included it in a griefing report is the for the following reason.

    When I woke up I had SLs and marines already grumbling (not unusual). I gear up for a deployment round and stand in CIC for a while assuming briefing had been wrapped up and people were loading onboard. I was getting my wiki map and ML page open just in case I needed to handle anything Shipside before I deploy. A fter pulling up everything I needed I head to the briefing assuming it was about to end. This was around 12:25 (logs will state exactly what time I got there). I get wind of the LZ2 plan, and briefing is still going on. If you had announced the orders before hand I would've stayed with the plan. You hadn't, and marines were pelting you with chairs and asking you to hurry up. This is my main problem with it, any roleplaying member wouldn't put their own fun before others. You purposely delayed briefing (I assume for the SLs, but seeing as they were all there I was confused) to the point where other players were becoming annoyed. That's command though! Players get annoyed at you no matter what you do! If you think I don't provide information in my briefings and pre-briefings (this time was a one exception due to the marines attitudes and how much time had already been wasted. Rip survivors) I give a short paragraph when I wake up about what planet we're on, who's in command today, and other information important to the operation. Command players are here to make the round for marines go smoother, not waste their time with useless information.


    You have never told me that you were deploying, which is a breach of the CO CoC. After waking up, you immediately decided to get into full combat dress to deploy on first cycle when I was the only officer in CIC. I told you in CIC that I do not want to take charge of the operation as I did not feel comfortable running the operation alone in CIC without your guidance when you changed the plan at the very last minute. You weren't excited at all, as you expressed annoyance and contempt both in LOOC and on a command announcement.
    I don't need to tell you if I have an intention to deploy. This was also while you were still giving briefing. Intention and actually deploying are two different things. I've been full battle dress before and stayed Shipside to handle CIC, MP, or req issues. I could have all the intent to deploy, but if I don't, that's different. It should be pointed out when I asked if you could handle CIC alone, you listed off a rule from the CO guidelines and stated you wouldn't take command. For someone that's very RP inclined, forcing another player to stay onboard with a rule that they can't disobey or risk losing their WL is eh. I did change the plan last minute, and I totally get why you wouldn't feel comfortable leading the operation! The reason I did express my annoyance in an announcement wasn't the fact I had to lead from CIC, it was the fact you use a rule to keep me in there. I don't recall using LOOC until later when you were trying to get an appeal during code red. The logs will show the truth though!

    The only passive remark given is when I told you that the plan resulted in marines being far too spread out, you've immediately ordered me to remain silent under threat of 'removal'. This is a bad example from a Commanding Officer who is held in higher standard from all the crew of Almayer, to order any lower rank who disagrees or criticizes them to cease talking. I have never said that my plan was better than yours.

    When giving you advice during the RnD offensive, you answered with: "then take over if you wish to announce that". You were clearly refusing to acknowledge suggestions, and I believe you were baiting me into countermanding your orders which leads us to the next point.

    When I suggested to send a fireteam from Bravo squad (FOB squad) to the front, you didn't say 'that's a good idea', you simply replied with 'then order it'. I was confused, I told you that I cannot change the plan, you have to expressly authorise it. You're the commanding officer, you're the one in charge of the operation, it's your duty to give orders and delegate tasks. As your XO I tried to make sure your orders were carried out when overwatching all squads alone.
    Ohh boy the meat! Let's dig in!
    That is correct! I should've used "A passive remark" instead of "Passive remarks". I'd like the logs to show exactly what you said, as me saying it may be putting words in your mouth. I told you to not give another remark like that or be removed from CIC. Your remark had no tactical value, and was said just to annoy me because I changed your plan. If that's harsh, that's how I saw it. I'm open to criticism from anyone! I don't consider myself a good CO, quite the opposite. I'm still learning as I go from the older people, BUT! When someone says an immature comment in, especially the XO of all people, I'm well within my rights to tell them to pipe down. I did not order you to stop doing your job, I told you to stop with the comment.

    I did tell you to take over the first time. That was poor of me trying to force another player to take command! I don't like to force people to take command, but after your passive remark and me becoming unhappy with you acting like an observer, I was become more and more nettled with you.

    I was not baiting you in any way at all. I'm surprised you see it like that! If a senior officer gives an order to help the operation, that's more than okay! SOs and XOs do it all the time under COs! There is no forbidden law saying they need to check with the CO anytime they want to give an order to a lower enlisted member! I'm surprised you bring this up when the wiki says it's your job to give out orders!

    Onto the breaking point in CIC between you and me! The Bravo FT1! You're right! I didn't say that's a good idea. I told you to order it! You don't need my authorization to tell a SL what to do. You're a senior officer in the USMC, it's in your job to give orders to the lower enlisted to help the operation! I would delegate every order and task, IF I was ruining a solo CIC. Instead I had a XO who could help take off the load and give orders where needed! I'm confused where you're thinking I told you to not give an order without checking in with me first?


    You did not give authorisation until after you've reprimanded me, and immediately ordered me to cease overwatch and to leave CIC. I was not given a choice to leave as it was a direct order from you. After leaving CIC, I went to the brig to send a fax to High Command, and that's when you ordered my arrest for Neglect of Duty over the command announcement:Captain Kenneth Lance has been removed from CIC and is to be arrested for NOD after refusing to give orders to be petty. I have no use for a child in a senior command postion

    Signed by,
    Major Nasoki 'Coward' Chen
    I believe I had given you a warning to start doing your job or to leave (I could be wrong though, magic logs will prove this!). After becoming frustrated with your inability to give orders and us clearly not clicking together. I ordered you outside of CIC and had you arrested for NOD. The reason I kicked you out, I didn't want an arrest going on in CIC while I was alone. I knew you would protest and it would cause an issue between me and you in CIC while the op was going on. TO BE 100% CLEAR! I did not have you arrested for leaving CIC after I ordered you too. I had you arrested for failing to give orders that a XO should be giving.

    While in the brig, my timer expired while the CMP was handling my appeal. Since shipside comms were down, the CMP had to see you directly in CIC to check your story. I don't recall you asking me 'If I was ready to give orders', you've tried to demote me while the appeal was still ongoing. Additionally, as per Marine Law, you failed to acknowledge that appeals must be handled before demotions. You cannot give me a 'partial appeal', since you've ordered the arrest, and all appeals must follow proper procedure dictated in ML. Outside CIC, the CMP informs me that my appeal is accepted, and that makes you guilty of Prevarication.
    Ohh boy! I won't lie, I messed up here and jumped the gun by trying to demote you, though all isn't what it seems with your story.
    I'm surprised you were requesting an appeal after your timer was up, on code red and you had faxed the provost already already! Staff confirmed with me after that you had sent a fax! If there was no response (you never mentioned anything about the fax) It means your appeal was denied. There was also a hostile force onboard....the Jamaicans and PMCs! While I found out about the PMCs near the end, the Jamaicans were well under way fighting and recovering gear! Appeals can be suspended if a hostile force is onboard! Due to the sabotage of the ship as well, I had every reason to suspend and cut your appeal! I will admit I shouldn't have demoted you! I also informed your appeal was suspended due Shipside issues, but no demotion was issued!


    I'm sorry if you felt if I had a meta grudge against you, I try to treat everyone the same and give them the attention they need. What I don't like is the position you're taking as if you were the victim of this after taking up a senior command slot and acting like I tried to bait you into breaking ML. This is my point of view and my reasoning. If you need to correct any lines in my story go for it! Other than that, that's what I saw

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    I won't lie though, in the past Kenneths interaction and me haven't been the best as we don't agree on everything. I do try separate my personal feelings from CO, as I'm expected to be professional.

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    To show that Kenneth was acting in bad faith again and attempting to metagame me with CO rules to control my round, I had a recent round which JarekTheRaptor (as they handled the ahelps) can confirm all that will be said. (I don't need logs for this, as I don't have the time, but if you still wanna pull them up go for it). Kenneth Lance says "I don't want to run the operation with you awake, come lead in CIC". I'm disgruntled instantly there as they're repeating what they did last time. I ask them their reason for not being confident to lead, and they say they're new. I ahelp the first time and I get told from staff "They can't stop "shitty" behavior". I go to the CO council asking what I should do if Kenneth Lance is clearly using a WL rule to control my round in bad faith. https://gyazo.com/ab3ebc64f3405d832388c83b4ae2b4a1 (Sammys response). I ahelp again after having the backing of Sammy and another CO councilor, this time Kenneth was told off for trying to use WL rules to control, and to not play command if they don't want to do their job. Shortly after this, HC sent a fax and had Kenneth Lance detained for NOD after refusing to take up command.

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