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Thread: economicairborn - Rule 11

  1. #1
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    economicairborn - Rule 11

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    VarenRoth

    Date of Incident
    April 17, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Lucia Marozzo

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    economicairborn

    Accused Character Name
    Kenneth Lance

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    23:00 Server-time

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 11

    Description of the incident:
    Jim Miller, a mess tech, was permabrigged for several violations to marine law. Eventually he was set to be executed.
    Kenneth, as CMP, ordered so to happen through Firing Squad, and he selected the M79 as the weapon of choice for this.
    I was playing as one of the MPs who took part in the firing squad.

    As we got to it, he first said we'd be using Hornet shells, but as we were about to fire, he ordered us to load batons instead.

    Given the spirit of the law, even if the letter doesn't say to use L42s, I assumed the intent isn't to nonlethally paincrit a marine, and to that point in character I decided to just walk up to the man and put him out of his misery with a sidearm instead.
    As I did so Kenneth ordered to switch to sidearms, then went on to shoot more into him to "make sure".

    The whole situation seems off to me, as a combination of unnecessarily cruel method, with an edge-case weapon, so I adminhelped to ask whether that was allowed, and I was answered by Forest2001 that if requested by a CO with fax approval it could be allowed, and to make a player report for staff to look into it.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    What resolution are you seeking?
    Clarification on the law, as I can't tell if this is an edge case that's technically allowed or a rule break. This kind of behaviour for CMPs feels off, so if this is not meant to be allowed, a warning of the case to the player.

  2. #2
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    the reason we used batons was because hornet shells were disabled by shipboard IFF, just adding this.
    - one of the MPs in the firing squad

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    Looking over the logs

    and this

    "Given the spirit of the law, even if the letter doesn't say to use L42s, I assumed the intent isn't to nonlethally paincrit a marine, and to that point in character I decided to just walk up to the man and put him out of his misery with a sidearm instead.
    As I did so Kenneth ordered to switch to sidearms, then went on to shoot more into him to "make sure"."

    "The whole situation seems off to me, as a combination of unnecessarily cruel method, with an edge-case weapon, so I adminhelped to ask whether that was allowed, and I was answered by Forest2001 that if requested by a CO with fax approval it could be allowed, and to make a player report for staff to look into it."



    I have no idea what you getting about at all. Logs don't show any unusual chats.

    The intent was not to 'non-lethally paincrit a marine' ie: (kill them?), why didn't you just say that? Makes it confusing.

    Yes, that is what a firing squad does. It kills you / them / whomever. That is working as intended, Guns fire bullets and kill.

    "as a combination of unnecessarily cruel method,"

    What? It's a firing squad...

    Could you specify precisely what you are referencing as to the IC weapons and fax?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by trustscience44; 04-23-2022 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by trustscience44 View Post
    Looking over the logs

    and this

    "Given the spirit of the law, even if the letter doesn't say to use L42s, I assumed the intent isn't to nonlethally paincrit a marine, and to that point in character I decided to just walk up to the man and put him out of his misery with a sidearm instead.
    As I did so Kenneth ordered to switch to sidearms, then went on to shoot more into him to "make sure"."

    "The whole situation seems off to me, as a combination of unnecessarily cruel method, with an edge-case weapon, so I adminhelped to ask whether that was allowed, and I was answered by Forest2001 that if requested by a CO with fax approval it could be allowed, and to make a player report for staff to look into it."



    I have no idea what you getting about at all. Logs don't show any unusual chats.

    The intent was not to 'non-lethally paincrit a marine' ie: (kill them?), why didn't you just say that? Makes it confusing.

    Yes, that is what a firing squad does. It kills you / them / whomever. That is working as intended, Guns fire bullets and kill.

    "as a combination of unnecessarily cruel method,"

    What? It's a firing squad...

    Could you specify precisely what you are referencing as to the IC weapons and fax?

    Thank you.
    I'll try to reword to be clearer.

    M79 Baton doesn't have lethal damage to it, it's a pain only weapon, like rubber bullets or tasers. The intent of the law, I think, is to just kill someone in an execution, not to cause them pain then switch to something that actually kills them. In that sequence, that is torture, then an execution.

    What was ordered was the use of the M79 with baton rounds,and during that, I just acted out in character by switching to a pistol and killing the guy, as we were just causing the guy to go in pain rather than killing him, and I saw that as not following Marine Law as intended.


    So, I asked afterwards in an adminhelp, "Was this fine? Is using an M79 as an execution weapon allowed by Marine Law?".
    The answer was, essentially, that it'd require COs to fax for it, if there's a special case that warrants it. Either way I was told to open a Player Report for further clarification.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarenRoth View Post
    I'll try to reword to be clearer.

    M79 Baton doesn't have lethal damage to it, it's a pain only weapon, like rubber bullets or tasers. The intent of the law, I think, is to just kill someone in an execution, not to cause them pain then switch to something that actually kills them. In that sequence, that is torture, then an execution.

    What was ordered was the use of the M79 with baton rounds,and during that, I just acted out in character by switching to a pistol and killing the guy, as we were just causing the guy to go in pain rather than killing him, and I saw that as not following Marine Law as intended.


    So, I asked afterwards in an adminhelp, "Was this fine? Is using an M79 as an execution weapon allowed by Marine Law?".
    The answer was, essentially, that it'd require COs to fax for it, if there's a special case that warrants it. Either way I was told to open a Player Report for further clarification.
    Thank's, Since its a game-play mechanics / management thing, Not sure if we need logs for this one. I've let someone know!

  6. #6
    Senior Moderator Jamesthebond's Avatar
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    Since TrustScience was fired recently and the report was not closed I will be taking his place so Logs will be posted within 24 - 72 hours.
    Retired CSM Jonathon 'Ghost' Granger


    Discord Jonathongun#0219

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    Senior Moderator Jamesthebond's Avatar
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    Logs!

    Pulled Logs, Please Wait for the Accused Ckey to make a Defense comment. If the Accused Ckey does or does not make a defense plea a Verdict from an Admin or Above will be issued.
    We thank you for your patience!


    Logs of 4/17/2022

    CMP orders the Prisoner to the execution chamber after failing to do a Science Experiment

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CMP Secures M79s for the Execution
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    BE Announcement

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Ordering the use of .22 Lr with explanation

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    [22:45:44] - [22:52:21] Last Rights and last food were given *will spare these logs*

    Orders the initial Volley
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Flash longs from the volley

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Orders more volleys

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Orders Switch to Side arms realizing he is still alive

    Spoiler Spoiler:

    The MP Shoots and kills the Prisoner before the CMP
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Shoots an Already dead prisoner

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Reports the execution was a success.

    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by Jamesthebond; 05-16-2022 at 06:03 AM.
    Retired CSM Jonathon 'Ghost' Granger


    Discord Jonathongun#0219

  8. #8
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Technically the M79 is a firearm, but per Nanu, less than lethal weapons should not be used. Only sidearms/rifles/shotguns should be used in executions. I will post a clarification on the provost discord. Its a gray area, so we're just gonna do the clarification, and not sanction the player in this case.
    Unhinged retiree boomer man
    Get off my lawn you kids

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