I love it.Originally Posted by Heckenshutze
Any half decent shotgunner has macros (and xenos can't get macros) that making reloading, grabbing a dropped gun or basically any complex action easy.
Maybe that's the problem, macros make shotgun reloading easier, maybe macros need removing.
That wouldn�t stop xenos from getting robusted by someone more skilled than them; same with xenos destroying groups of marines simply because skill. Less skillful xenos, specially those dumb enough to never stun lock the marine (by pounce, neuro, disarm) will get the same result until they improve. Unless you�re a DEFENSIVE or SUPPORT caste that SHOULDN�T be at the front killing.
Everytime I see you debating on the forums regarding these topics I can�t tell if you�re deadass serious or just sarcastic trolling. Because you kind of remind me to Xen0SlaYer. So I tend to ignore you
Last edited by Heckenshutze; 03-02-2019 at 06:13 PM.
Aint reading the thread or entire OP. SS13 is entirely about random results. You have a human, their health, their armor rating, a random block with the armor, the xeno's natural damage range that does vary like everything else, their penetration rates, their miss chances, their decap chances their damage crits. Normal SS13 too, random stuns, and missing/hitting, armor reductions and etc. SS13 is about random shit.
Im serious about buckshot being retardedly easy. I dont consider myself good at marines and I average over a kill a round every time I play because I just buckshot people. Its fucking easy.
Random results are not fun. They remove most elements of skill and reduce everything to dice rolls, biased one way or another by the inherent design rather than the skills of the player. The more you rely on random, the more frustrating and the less fun the game is. Random number generators have their place - I'm not arguing that a critical chance roll is necessarily bad - but replacing individual skill entirely with an RNG determinator is not a good choice if you want people to enjoy the game.
A big part of what makes multiplayer games fun, is the challenge and test of skills against other human players. Where random goes very bad is when someone of markedly worse skill is able to triumph - not because of anything he did, but ONLY because he got a lucky dice roll in his favor.
Might I ask then, would you not say that despite all the randomized stacked odds against success that triumph'ing through all of that not be a display of skill. To be able to handle all the randomized numbers and events and be robust enough to work around failures and stacked odds against you? Makes the same sense to a tabletop game where it literally is rolling dice, and that's what makes them fun.
To be fair, I imagine the RNG for tabletop games is to better emulate the more real life conditions they individuals/groups face which cannot be replicated on tabletop. Games like FPS or RTS don't have as much need for RNG due to their nature in giving far more direct and realistic control to the player.
Overcoming a system filled with RNG isn't a display of skill. It's a display of perseverance and insanity in continuing to do the same task over and over until the dice rolls finally land your way.
If we can do better than RNG, we should.
Please actually think about what you're saying here.
If I have to roll 11+ on 2d6 to win "against stacked odds", that is not a test of skill. Literally I can show you that I'll win ~8% of the time. In fact, if my goldfish could roll the die, it too would win ~8% of the time. The results, despite being random, are entirely predictable in their randomness. This just isn't fun. Why would I play this 'game' where I lose 92% of the time, and win 8% of the time? Why would I feel like I 'earned' a win when all I did was roll a die?
Randomization has its place, but if you have a completely random game, you don't have a fun game.
Things that actually test skill, like anticipating what moves your opponent will make in the future and positioning yourself to take advantage of it - that doesn't need a random number generator in the game at all. Example: Lurker (666) sees two marines, one has a shotgun ready and the other is healing himself. Pouncing the marine with a shotgun first is a better and more advantageous move to make because it removes the most apparent danger and catches the other marine flatfooted, you could say it's stacking the odds in favor of Lurker (666), but it doesn't require a dice roll or RNG to do it.
Now suppose we introduce a dice roll: Lurker (666) makes the 'probably correct' move to pounce the shotgun marine. Except pounce now only has a 50% chance of landing - the other 50% of the time you'll just bounce off.
Did that in any way make the situation more fun?
If anything, it actually removed an element of skill by giving the marine player a freebie get out of jail card 50% of the time, despite the player not even doing anything on his own part.
Now, yes, the lurker can weigh his odds and guess at whether or not it's worth it, and yes you can argue that's a skill of its own. But that won't make the lurker bouncing off the marine 50% of the time any less frustrating and aggravating.
The randomness hasn't added anything to the game, and this is what you have to be careful of when you introduce randomness.
SS13 is not a game about randomness. It has very predictable and reliable results and what random elements exist, are largely either abstractions of things too complicated to represent realistically, or are otherwise used to enhance the existing gameplay.
Last edited by Boersgard; 03-03-2019 at 02:26 PM.
I was trying to go for what you said there with the first example of 666, while there are plenty of random things, IE all his buckshot hitting or such. As most lurker pounces, one and you're dead. That's almost a plain fact before our heavy armor addition. But being able to power through those moments of 'stacked odds' is what makes the success and fun of it all much more worth it. Not to say everything NEEDS to have that aspect but it does help when it's due.
I still like to disagree on SS13 not being random. The base game is entirely based on stun which, can and cannot happen due to accuracy in environment, random knockouts, other factors you can't control etc. But I do digress on this.
1. When you start reading out damage factors and dps yall probably Overthinking it.
2. Xenos should be stronger than marines overall.
3. It shouldn't be a stomp but 65-75% Xeno Winrate works well and is fun while preserving RP, shipside roles + chain of command.
4. Optimal round length adjusted for combat gameplay and RP is 1:30 leaning to 2 hours. Rounds that length usually aren't pure stomps and have some back and forth with enough time for RP to occur in between.
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