Squad preference is going away for a month

[Bancrose]

You and Kesserline are leaders, and Dee is just a nice person. Far from me to claim all Deltas are like that example. Merely that from my subjective observation that squad has the largest concentration of elitist and newbie-unfriendly players. Not as if the other squads are free from this, it's just less noticeable.

I run a little experiment myself sometimes: play a different character than my usual, as if I was a new player, and try to interact with the people that know me, see how they treat me. The results are very interesting. I'd recommend you to try it sometime.

All that said, this is not the thread for it.

You're right. I just didn't want everyone to be grouped into that minority.

[Gnorse]

I'm fine with teaching new folks, even if it gets me killed, but the others might not be and we don't have to force it on them.
If they want to stick with people who they KNOW won't shoot them in the back and will actually shake them/drag them/whatever, then they should be able to.

[solidfury7]

I'm fine with teaching new folks, even if it gets me killed, but the others might not be and we don't have to force it on them.
If they want to stick with people who they KNOW won't shoot them in the back and will actually shake them/drag them/whatever, then they should be able to.

Unfortunately, not all gameplay changes will please everyone everytime.

Then again, if youre not willing to ensure the person next to you is fully briefed on the dos and donts, don't complain when they make rookie errors on the battlefield.

Its not different from getting a fresh marine out of boot camp in your squad., and the grizzled veteran/s giving him tips on how to survive.

Edit: This is a sweeping statement, so everything isn't directed at you. Just thought id clarify.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if this effected the win rate positively. More veterans spread across alpha and bravo could easily make the squads more combat effective, rather than concentrated in one or two squads.


Overall, those who know me will know i advocated getting squad preferences implemented long ago and mained Charlie nearly exclusively and tried to make it a squad for new players to be trained up. It saddens me to see the squad preference system be derailed by a small minority which as always, shapes the game in a different way, for better or worse.

I do think this test is worth trying, if only to explore our options.

[Dolth]

Unfortunately, not all gameplay changes will please everyone everytime.

Then again, if youre not willing to ensure the person next to you is fully briefed on the dos and donts, don't complain when they make rookie errors on the battlefield.

Its not different from getting a fresh marine out of boot camp in your squad., and the grizzled veteran/s giving him tips on how to survive.

Edit: This is a sweeping statement, so everything isn't directed at you. Just thought id clarify.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if this effected the win rate positively. More veterans spread across alpha and bravo could easily make the squads more combat effective, rather than concentrated in one or two squads.


Overall, those who know me will know i advocated getting squad preferences implemented long ago and mained Charlie nearly exclusively and tried to make it a squad for new players to be trained up. It saddens me to see the squad preference system be derailed by a small minority which as always, shapes the game in a different way, for better or worse.

I do think this test is worth trying, if only to explore our options. If that means

As much as I love delta, I need to agree with what fury7 said. Spreading vets around all the squads might boost the win/rate ratio for marines if vets STOP GOING RAMBO (yes I know that's what I do).
Anyway, I am looking forward this test.

[immaspaceninja]

Can you maybe somehow leave squad pref for medics and engies only? It lets people choose between getting into a squad that has a CPL and getting into a squad with none of those.

[MattAtlas]

I don't mind seeing how this goes despite thinking that it likely just won't change anything. Buddies will keep being buddies, if one of them gets beat up the fact that one's in Alpha and the other is in B won't really stop the other from helping them. It snowballs from there.

[Renomaki]

If it means you won't cry over the announcement console, then let's put your ideas forward.

Oi, I am a very deep, emotional roleplayer (when in a position of command) I'll have you know...

As for people wanting general comms, why not just... Restrict it to shipside staff, NCOs and Specs?

That way, people get their general comms for when they need to quickly blurt out information on the field, but at the same time the majority of the squad still has to stick together instead of wandering off to join randoms and ignoring their NCO in the process.

.... Also make general comms :G , because I like having squad comms set to ; .

[Simo94]

I personally dont mind, cant be worse than being a random xeno anyways.

[Vitoras]

Welp, in my opinion this is kinda bad decision. Now metafriends will stick up together despite the squad. This will cause some confusion in the entire platoon.

[Karmac]

Welp, in my opinion this is kinda bad decision. Now metafriends will stick up together despite the squad. This will cause some confusion in the entire platoon.

this is how it was originally, nobody really cared if you weren't in the same squad

[Surrealistik]

Bad.

Nothing good will come of this, and it's not about to stop metacomming.

[HBlokkum]

One month right off the bat seems pretty extreme. For a test like this, maybe a couple days or at max a week would be better.

I'm sure marines will still buddy up or get "lost" and join up with another squad. I can't really see this stopping metabuddying or metacomming in any way whatsoever.

[Rohesie]

You know, I see the meta-friendship problem and I think that the problem is lack of options, not excess of. Instead of removing squad preferences we should be offering the players what they are looking for.

In the current setup role preferences are given priority over squad preferences. Why not allow people to prefer squads?

How would this work? Simple, when you roll for each job you select among the candidate pool and the available squads. Pick one. Has no squads prefs? Assign randomly. Has a squad pref that is already picked for this role, but has roles-over-squad priority? Assign to a different squad. Has a squad pref that is picked, and has squad-over-roles priority? Discard from list and pick another.

That way players that will only play in Delta can select Delta-only, and instead of being sent to play as Specialists in Alpha only to ditch the squad or yell about a transfer they will not be picked if Delta already had a spec chosen, and will continue rolling for the other roles. Of course, players that want to play as Specs regardless of the squad will still get their option to.

It's pretty simple, and a much better alternative than having discontent players who either cryo or cripple their squads. I'm pretty sure that no squad will lack special roles, same as they don't lack privates now that the squad preference for that role has been made certain.

[ComradeCorbyn]

snip

Heyo! While I think more options might be better in some scenarios, I believe that isn't the route of the issue here. As explained by Emerald Blood, the rational behind this decision on the head's decision is to, in their words,

"With our role-back of rules, IC has become the new standard we want to be able to resolve things. While I'd say this has helped move us forward, it's also starting to bring a new problem with it, mostly with how MP are being dealt with IC. We want the MP to be the rule-keeper IC and leave things IC so we don't have to press down on people OOCly to keep things running, but more and more it's being shown that squads are not caring about MP and will constantly fight back against them when they try to deal with things ICly. The more everyone resists, the more force MP have to administer force (usually just to arrest one person), and the more people get annoyed/hit in the crossfire and the spiral continues. A big factor of this is the fact that friends of the person being arrested IC will often try to step in to prevent this. On top of that problem, this has been leading to an influx of player/staff report regarding MP + Squad problems. This is a growing problem as we can't have MP, the rule-keepers of IC, be unable to do their job on top of the stress all of the reports are bringing to the staff."

In essence, this means that in this situation; while options might be better, in this case it would be worse. I hope I could solve some things up, I might've not quite understood what you said though, as it is 2 AM. Thanks!

[Lumdor]

I'm going to change everything I said, I think having random squad pref is a good change. Hear me out.

Played a late night round with people I have never played with before, never had any interaction with them before, but we killed so many xenos together.

A lot of our squad died, and it was just a few of us my brother and me.

Never knew this guy before but we made a connection, not one you make with people you play a lot with, just one this game use to make when I first started playing.

Then we evac'd back to the ship and he killed himself because he could not take the pain of most of our squad dying.

Not many things in this game make an emotional connection with me but this did. Some guy I never played with, knew, or anything else, but somehow this no-name killing himself fucked with me.

You may call me dumb, but this shit fucked me up, even though I knew you could not revive someone who killed themselves I dragged him to the doctors and was screaming at them to fix him.

When they told me he was brain dead, that fucking hurt.

I then had him cremated and watched as his ashes slipped through my fingers.

This is something I think any brother or sister needs to experience. Something you can't really get with the meta-gamers, power-gamers, and people you usually play with.

[Bancrose]

I'm going to change everything I said, I think having random squad pref is a good change. Hear me out.

Played a late night round with people I have never played with before, never had any interaction with them before, but we killed so many xenos together.

A lot of our squad died, and it was just a few of us my brother and me.

Never knew this guy before but we made a connection, not one you make with people you play a lot with, just one this game use to make when I first started playing.

Then we evac'd back to the ship and he killed himself because he could not take the pain of most of our squad dying.

Not many things in this game make an emotional connection with me but this did. Some guy I never played with, knew, or anything else, but somehow this no-name killing himself fucked with me.

You may call me dumb, but this shit fucked me up, even though I knew you could not revive someone who killed themselves I dragged him to the doctors and was screaming at them to fix him.

When they told me he was brain dead, that fucking hurt.

I then had him cremated and watched as his ashes slipped through my fingers.

This is something I think any brother or sister needs to experience. Something you can't really get with the meta-gamers, power-gamers, and people you usually play with.

I 100% Agree. I've had a few emotional moments in this game with people I've never spoken too once. god bless my niggas in the corps.

[Jeser]

I don't care about all of that. I hate any other job but FoB. This removal will mean I will be not getting FoB job much more. That's all I damn carry about. That instead of knowing which squad is good at which job, we will get complete random idiotness all around. Bravo behaving like Delta or Alpha sucking at combat because half of Alpha - players who used to do FoB duty.

[Avalanchee]

SECOND : Metabuddies and so what ? I prefer risking to get removed from the round by attempting ANYTHING to save a marine that WORTH it. I'm tired of saving baldies and getting FFed in the back.

THIRD : If you're baldie ? Read the fucking wiki. Read all the fucking guides that many people put on the forums before, and I swear that you won't be a baldie anymore. Be curious, ask questions, don't be a silent cunt, and there will be NOBODY who will dare calling you a baldie.

If you're here Lyds,
Read this.
Atleast five times.
Kesserline explained it.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

[Dolth]

If you're here Lyds,
Read this.
Atleast five times.
Kesserline explained it.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

There is one problem here.
Saying what's wrong wont make any change. Metagamers/baldies reluctant to read any guides WILL NOT CHANGE because they were just identified.

[Rohesie]

snip

That is a lovely tale, and I'm really glad you have had such a nice experience. And I fully believe you should be allowed to have such kind of moments. But how does having squad preferences negate it? You can still join squads other than your own, you can still set yourself to random squad and be sent to the smaller one, you can still meet new people in your own squad... If anything it makes it more certain that you'll meet new ones, given that you can choose a squad other than your usual own...

Don't get me wrong. I want that kind of stuff to happen. I just don't see how removing prefs will help in that.

I don't care about all of that. I hate any other job but FoB. This removal will mean I will be not getting FoB job much more. That's all I damn carry about. That instead of knowing which squad is good at which job, we will get complete random idiotness all around. Bravo behaving like Delta or Alpha sucking at combat because half of Alpha - players who used to do FoB duty.

Some people want to unga and they are forced to do FOB. Some people want to do FOB and are forced to unga. Am I the only one seeing an issue here?

If you're here Lyds,
Read this.
Atleast five times.
Kesserline explained it.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

Hello. It seems you have misunderstood me. I have IC friends as well. There's people I'll go to much further lengths to save, up to the point of being suicidal. I enjoy most of all to support capable players, supplying them with good and limited stuff I manage to scavenge, which I know they will put to good use. If I have spare AP you won't see me seeking a guy who's wielding his M41A in the shuttle.

Good players should be empowered. That is good for the team, for everyone. That does not mean, however, that we should block worse players or be toxic or unwelcoming to them.

I'll try to make it easy and simple for you:
Good: "Hey, [robust player], I found an HPR in these crates in Big Red. Want one?"
Bad: "No, you can't have a BC in your otherwise proper loadout because I don't know you and I'm saving them for my robust friends."
Capiche? Or do I need to give you other examples?

[FGRSentinel]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if this effected the win rate positively. More veterans spread across alpha and bravo could easily make the squads more combat effective, rather than concentrated in one or two squads.

It won't, and here's why. As I said before (in a response that seems to have been completely ignored interestingly enough) the squad preference system has allowed people to specialize in their playstyle. Bravo is typically considered the best at FOB construction, Delta is generally best for scouts and QRF units because of their combat experience, and so on. You're not just "spreading veterans across alpha and bravo," as you put it. You're forcing people to play roles they're not familiar with or have zero interest in. Unit morale has a major impact on unit performance. Watch what happens when Delta's SO, the XO, or CO ignore their requests for info, pleas for help, and begging for supplies. If they don't instantly mutiny, they very quickly lose combat efficiency as they start ignoring orders and trying to help each other. Just like what it says on the guide to being a good Queen, low morale for any reason hurts performance. Shattering the current Delta squad and scattering them between the four will somehow magically improve marine win rates? Quite the opposite: Deltas cannot stand FOB duty and they need a specific type of SO watching them. Every squad has specific needs, skills, and expectations and spreading them around WILL hurt the marine win rate more than you think it'll boost it.

At least with the Squad Preference system, you had likeminded people grouped together in a way that meant you could anticipate what the squad would do, what they'd respond well to, and what would set the entire squad off. Randomize it and I guarantee you'll be more likely to get shit-tier FOBs, marines abandoning their assignments to find the squad with their preferred job, mass casualties in the scouting parties, and large-scale mutinies in a week than you get in a month right now.

As I said before, this seems increasingly like it's just a thinly-veiled attempt to crack down on the little metagaming Marines can get away with. Are you aware people will ignore the PO's warnings that the Queen hijacking the Alamo means they can fly it back up, therefore wasting precious minutes of time that could make the difference between a successful counterattack and a merciless slaughter? Whenever it happens, I can't help but wonder "is this the person's personality or are they scared the Xeno players will ahelp them and they'll get in trouble for meta/powergaming?"

If what I'm saying is wrong and it isn't to crack down on metagaming, give an actual justification and if it is a crackdown on metagaming, actually respond to the concerns about Xenos metagaming that are handwaved away that I mentioned in an earlier comment first.

[FGRSentinel]

As much as I love delta, I need to agree with what fury7 said. Spreading vets around all the squads might boost the win/rate ratio for marines if vets STOP GOING RAMBO (yes I know that's what I do).
Anyway, I am looking forward this test.

Thing is, Deltas don't usually Rambo. If someone runs off, there's usually someone else that follows them, and a decent SO can get the entire squad to swarm a position without much difficulty. It's only when everything's gone to hell or the SL and Command aren't leading properly that the squad disintegrates.

[Dolth]

Thing is, Deltas don't usually Rambo. If someone runs off, there's usually someone else that follows them, and a decent SO can get the entire squad to swarm a position without much difficulty. It's only when everything's gone to hell or the SL and Command aren't leading properly that the squad disintegrates.

"Deltas don't usually rambo." FGRSentinel, Joined: 06 Jul 2018, 23:17.

Yes, most of delta vets -will- chase, because it's the only way to finish a xeno before it escapes and heal away. Which is, newsflash, what they do while you do your shitty suppressive fire with your SMG/rifle stock on burst.

[solidfury7]

Maybe squads shouldn't be assigned to one specialisation only.

If your squad cant adapt to the changing liquid form of the combat zone, then theyre just a one trick pony which is effectively useless if their niche specialisation isn't available.

If all squads get a taste of each of the whole marine experience, they'll be more efficient and flexible as a whole.

The whole argument that you're being "forced" in to a role is tosh, because first of all, youre saying that because you are "X squad" you are entitled to play as a QRT. That attitude itself isnt a great one and can cause imbalances in squad ratios, not to mention that attitude has lead to certain squads deciding that they don't like the orders they got and decide to flaunt them...and guess what happens then? MPs are deployed and so on.

The claims everything is going to fall apart at the seams because this novelty change is removed is laughable, I remember kicking arse when it didn't exist in the sulaco days just fine when it wasn't around.

The only thing I will miss is knowing ill see the same people in a squad everytime, but at the same time, I'm looking forward to meeting new players and forging a vaster range of relationships alike.

[FGRSentinel]

"Deltas don't usually rambo." FGRSentinel, Joined: 06 Jul 2018, 23:17.

Yes, most of delta vets -will- chase, because it's the only way to finish a xeno before it escapes and heal away. Which is, newsflash, what they do while you do your shitty suppressive fire with your SMG/rifle stock on burst.

You missed the "if one rushes ahead, others follow" thing. Sure, they may try to Rambo, but it's hard to when you've got two or three people that take it as a sign to charge. Rambo usually implies solo, after all.