Predator Elder Council - Suggestion and Nominations

[Ghostdex]

Giant snip

I can agree with most if not all of this. Having no higher active predator than young blood has led to all of us just doing one thing or another somewhat repetitively. While Reno stated that Feweh wasn’t very vocal as an elder I at the very least had some good interaction with him but now I havent seen an Elder in a pretty long time.

On the topic of looking up to elders. I can attest to looking up to elders and aspiring to them in a way, the elder that really comes to mind is Noize and he’s rarely seen anymore. I would like to see more elders, or at the least an upper pred to kind of get guidance from, for myself and others.

My earlier comment and opinion of prefering elites instead of elders has pretty much changed. Rahl brought up a good point of current elders becoming ancients, while it isnt much different than Kavlo’s suggestion, the role would become different as the title is different and such.

I fully support us getting an elder council for guidance and to sort out the other things.

[Imperator_Titan]

Looks like this might just become a thing after all. Looking forward to it.

[Renomaki]

Looks like this might just become a thing after all. Looking forward to it.

whatchu talkin about Titan?

I figured that this was just wishful thinking and will not ever take place due to the complications of it all.

[Imperator_Titan]

whatchu talkin about Titan?

I figured that this was just wishful thinking and will not ever take place due to the complications of it all.

Meant that it now has a decent chance of occurring judging by recent changes aimed towards the players governing themselves, one can only hope.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I still believe this is a good idea. At least in spirit, if not full Elders, perhaps only Elite? Hope this goes somewhere eventually. Predators have a lot of potential that I think we can help them reach.

[Symbiosis]

The problem is that those whom have often been Elders are inactive - our best Pred example has been /N.

Frankly, a council of three would be fitting and a seasonal vote establishing those three ensures that inactive Elites are removed.

These three would chiefly be responsible for training/RP guidelines. Any changes they suggest would obviously be minor in detail and sent to the Heads for ruling.

Basic things like - Lodge necessity, Duels on the Ship, etc.

Remember, in ALL of the Predator movies it’s often been the Humans that are the main characters. I feel we’re just there to spice it up... but I also believe the extinction rule needs to go, too.

[Steelpoint]

Sounds better off to just have a more official way of suggesting changes than needing some kind of player council. Concepts like Lodges or Duels on the ship don't feel necessary to warrant a player council.

In my opinion a 'player council' just seems like a way to create a popularity contest. I don't see a reason why we need one, or why it would be practical outside of seeing more Elders in general whom are active. Then you start getting into debates on the power of the Elders since last I checked, in game Elders practically can ignore any of the honour code rules as they see fit, but if you limit these rules to account for player Elders then you stunt the whole concept of a Elder, or you just start adding bloat when you add Predator ranks to justify player Elders/Elites/Whatever.

It would be nice to see the unique sprites for the Enforcers/Elders/Etc that we practically never see nowadays, but I feel there would be better ways to do that than the council suggestion.

Honestly, a better idea I find would be to just lobby for a more official way to offer suggestions on Predator rules and conduct to the staff in a open forum instead of a restrictive player council.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I like the idea of this but I would likely agree that this may not be the best way to go about it.

I think it’s good this is here though to at least spark discussion.

Also I will agree with steelpoint that it would be really nice to see all these unused sprites more, but then again I am a sucker for sprite work.

Just a gaurunteed or official way for Predator players to perhaps “vote” on changes would be nice.

[Sneakyr]

Sounds better off to just have a more official way of suggesting changes than needing some kind of player council. Concepts like Lodges or Duels on the ship don't feel necessary to warrant a player council.

In my opinion a 'player council' just seems like a way to create a popularity contest. I don't see a reason why we need one, or why it would be practical outside of seeing more Elders in general whom are active. Then you start getting into debates on the power of the Elders since last I checked, in game Elders practically can ignore any of the honour code rules as they see fit, but if you limit these rules to account for player Elders then you stunt the whole concept of a Elder, or you just start adding bloat when you add Predator ranks to justify player Elders/Elites/Whatever.

It would be nice to see the unique sprites for the Enforcers/Elders/Etc that we practically never see nowadays, but I feel there would be better ways to do that than the council suggestion.

Honestly, a better idea I find would be to just lobby for a more official way to offer suggestions on Predator rules and conduct to the staff in a open forum instead of a restrictive player council.

To address this point by point:
1. Popularity contest - this has no bearing. Elders are chosen by staff, who should be choosing the most capable. Nominations were only done by players so we knew who would be actually willing to do it. Anyone could nominate themselves if they wanted.

2. Last *I* checked, the elders could only ignore honor code with admin permission. It just happened that every single elder was at LEAST an admin, and therefore permitted themselves.

3. Again, existing elders become Ancients. The current concept of an elder is just rebranded. Current elders barely if ever play pred anyway, so bloat is a non issue.

4. Council members aren't suggesting new sprites.

5. A more official way to offer suggestions doesn't really get us anywhere since the people who are supposed to be overseeing us in the first place already have a ton on their plates to do, and I doubt you want to give the entire predator whitelist a direct line to the developers. Besides a line to the developers, I don't see how an official suggestion system would work - I do encourage you to explain this to me, if you have an idea, but the only ways that come to mind are either a line directly to the devs of some sort or another suggestion thread to add to the swamp of them we already have.

[Steelpoint]

The crux of my objection is I fail to see a reason to have this council in the first place.

I agree there are issues with Predators, but I don't believe that a player council is necessary to resolve them. I find this proposal to be an excessive solution to a minor problem. I feel a better solution would be to simply table a community document that lists the current issues with Predators, mostly akin to validity of certain weapons, the Lodge issue, and similar, and be able to present them to the administration for resolution or confirmation.

Now if we are looking for a concept around more experienced Predator players to take the mantle of an Elite or similar ranked Predators to act as a sort of guide or 'gold standard' for other newer Predator players, I can get behind the idea.

[Sneakyr]

I agree there are issues with Predators, but I don't believe that a player council is necessary to resolve them. I find this proposal to be an excessive solution to a minor problem. I feel a better solution would be to simply table a community document that lists the current issues with Predators, mostly akin to validity of certain weapons, the Lodge issue, and similar, and be able to present them to the administration for resolution or confirmation.

This sounds like a fairly good idea, and if it were to be successful I would feel that all but one of the predator problems would be addressed (that one being a lack of any real leadership at present. This isn't Jamie's fault, as I doubt anyone could handle college, work(?), other hobbies, overseeing the entire CM moderator staff, and overseeing predators at the same time). However, I once made a thread for that very purpose (viewtopic.php?f=137&t=15575) and the contested section was only commented on by Feweh restating his position, rather than whether he or Apop takes precedent. Then, later on, Imperator_Titan also made a thread in the same vein (viewtopic.php?f=137&t=16828) which, while having community discussion, had no input from staff besides moderators who were just commenting as whitelistees rather than those who lay down predator policy.
If, somehow, we were able to get a dedicated thread with a guaranteed response, your suggestion would solve most of the problems the Elder Council would be created for, at least until future problems arise. However, a new suggestion would have to be proposed to take care of the lack of leadership. While using Elites as such could work, I'm on the fence between which is better myself and haven't decided yet, since new predator guidance isn't really much of an issue, nor does having a standard that isn't enforced make sense.