Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Should I be whitelisted?

Poll ended at 17 Dec 2016, 23:49

Yes
43
64%
No
24
36%
 
Total votes: 67

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Youbar
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Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 10 Dec 2016, 23:49

Byond ID: Youbar

Player name you use the most: Yamagata Aritomo

Make a list of links to all of your applications and (job)ban appeals, including whitelist and staff apps, within the last year. Also, provide "Ban reason; Verdict" beside each (job)ban link: Do you understand that any player - even donors or staff members - can have their whitelist status revoked should they break our Server Rules or Roleplay Guidelines? Yes

Why should you be whitelisted?
I am one of the most dedicated players to the commander position. I believe I am competent in every aspect of the role, ranging from coordinating logistics to ensure that the marines are well-supplied, to observing and adapting to a situation with limited information, to maintaining discipline in the ranks, to ensuring that the Rasputin and pod run on time. Over my three semi-active years that I've been on this server, I have accumulated a large amount of knowledge that relates to this position, and am beginning to offload it into this guide, which covers the four key aspects of command: logistics, communication, morale, and strategy. All throughout those years, I haven't experienced a single mutiny to overthrow me.
When it comes to roleplay, another vital area of this whitelist application, I am experienced there, too. On Aurorastation, a heavy roleplay server, I have been approved/whitelisted for both head of staff, on top of two seperate species, those being a robot/IPC, and dionaea. These, I believe, perfectly demonstrate my ability to roleplay when the situation demands it. At the very least, I don't use text speak, or shout in all-caps, so that counts for something, right?
TL;DR Lots of experience in being a part of the command staff, and roleplay, and it shows in-game.
"Man with one chopstick go hungry."
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Rahlzel » 10 Dec 2016, 23:59

Note: Ignore Youbar's vote here. We didn't have a "No voting for yourself" rule until after this application so he did nothing wrong.

(Subtract 1 vote from the "Yes" votes)

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Snypehunter007 » 11 Dec 2016, 00:35

Youbar wrote:Byond ID: Youbar

Player name you use the most: Yamagata Aritomo

Make a list of links to all of your applications and (job)ban appeals, including whitelist and staff apps, within the last year. Also, provide "Ban reason; Verdict" beside each (job)ban link: Do you understand that any player - even donors or staff members - can have their whitelist status revoked should they break our Server Rules or Roleplay Guidelines? Yes

Why should you be whitelisted?
I am one of the most dedicated players to the commander position. I believe I am competent in every aspect of the role, ranging from coordinating logistics to ensure that the marines are well-supplied, to observing and adapting to a situation with limited information, to maintaining discipline in the ranks, to ensuring that the Rasputin and pod run on time. Over my three semi-active years that I've been on this server, I have accumulated a large amount of knowledge that relates to this position, and am beginning to offload it into this guide, which covers the four key aspects of command: logistics, communication, morale, and strategy. All throughout those years, I haven't experienced a single mutiny to overthrow me.
When it comes to roleplay, another vital area of this whitelist application, I am experienced there, too. On Aurorastation, a heavy roleplay server, I have been approved/whitelisted for both head of staff, on top of two seperate species, those being a robot/IPC, and dionaea. These, I believe, perfectly demonstrate my ability to roleplay when the situation demands it. At the very least, I don't use text speak, or shout in all-caps, so that counts for something, right?
TL;DR Lots of experience in being a part of the command staff, and roleplay, and it shows in-game.
A Survivor is killed and brought to against his will to the Sulaco where he is cloned. He is violent upon waking up and is holding up one of the doctors as a hostage. What do you do?
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 11 Dec 2016, 00:58

Snypehunter007 wrote:A Survivor is killed and brought to against his will to the Sulaco where he is cloned. He is violent upon waking up and is holding up one of the doctors as a hostage. What do you do?
Hostage situations are a bit of a slippery slope. They can go down any path, and ultimately, if the hostage taker feels that they have nothing to lose, or will face punishment, will likely execute both the hostage and themselves on the way out. My first decision would be to dispatch military police to clear marines from the location, and keep the hostage situation restricted to a small area, rather than being visible to the public eye. From there, communications can take place, and depending on the severity of the situation, I may appoint the XO to continue operations while I deal with the situation personally. Once communications begin, orders will be dispatched for military police to block off escape routes, and to attempt to bargain whatever the hostage likes in return for the hostage. When the hostage is secure, the survivor will be taken down non-lethally, detained, and processed, and then kept in a secure location with a psychologist to work them out of the situation they're in. Further action can only take place with knowledge about the situation, such as the decision to give disciplinary action to medical staff, or to authorise euthanasia if the patient sees fit.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by slc97 » 11 Dec 2016, 09:21

You have previously been jobbaned from CO twice. One was in 2015, so let's ignore that one. One was for ordering a metarush at round start by trying to send squads into the caves to set up an FOB there immediately on landing and then you proceeded to improperly execute a prisoner. Why should this not affect our decision?

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 11 Dec 2016, 18:41

slc97 wrote:You have previously been jobbaned from CO twice. One was in 2015, so let's ignore that one. One was for ordering a metarush at round start by trying to send squads into the caves to set up an FOB there immediately on landing and then you proceeded to improperly execute a prisoner. Why should this not affect our decision?
These two claims are both the result of your failure to properly investigate the situation. I'm not going to go over the details again, as they are all within the thread linked above.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Snypehunter007 » 11 Dec 2016, 19:01

Youbar wrote:These two claims are both the result of your failure to properly investigate the situation. I'm not going to go over the details again, as they are all within the thread linked above.
Also you posted a very spiteful comment on Slc's CDR app about the situation you got CDR banned from.
Youbar wrote:You authorise an execution, and follow all the appropriate steps. However, before you can attend to the execution, a military police officer kills the individual. What do you do?
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 11 Dec 2016, 19:05

Snypehunter007 wrote:Also you posted a very spiteful comment on Slc's CDR app about the situation you got CDR banned from.
It wasn't a very spiteful comment. It was a question regarding a valid situation, which you mistook as an attack against him. If I didn't have faith in Slc97 as a commander, I wouldn't have voted "yes" to his application already.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by slc97 » 11 Dec 2016, 20:10

Youbar wrote:These two claims are both the result of your failure to properly investigate the situation. I'm not going to go over the details again, as they are all within the thread linked above.
And the thread linked above showed that I made a minor mistake in the investigation by failing to contact an MP. I admit to that, however you still ordered a metarush and failed to properly execute someone. I would appreciate it if you would answer my question as to why this information should not affect our decision?

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 11 Dec 2016, 22:40

slc97 wrote:And the thread linked above showed that I made a minor mistake in the investigation by failing to contact an MP. I admit to that, however you still ordered a metarush and failed to properly execute someone. I would appreciate it if you would answer my question as to why this information should not affect our decision?
The conclusions that you made, which lead to the ban, are invalid. I did not order a metarush, nor did I fail to properly execute somebody. No amount of arguing this fact will change my position, especially considering I have only had praise about my abilities, and gained respect, since I started playing commander again. You're free to stick your fingers in your ears, creating a nice, comfy echo chamber, and believe otherwise, however.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by slc97 » 11 Dec 2016, 22:48

Well, in the situation presented, you had ordered marines to set up an FOB in the caves on first landing, which is a metarush, and then you failed to properly announce an execution. All of this was covered and deemed correct in the report you listed above. I simply asked why you believe these actions should not affect the decision making process in this application. I had asked you this question not to accuse you of anything, but to have you inform me of how you've changed since your last jobban from CO. Your refusal to provide an answer as to that gives me the answer to that question just fine. Thank you.

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Dunril » 11 Dec 2016, 22:58

I'm throwing my weight behind him. He's a serious commander, he roleplays. It should be considered a heavy roleplay role, worked on the bridge a few times. Great commander, always onpoint and I always feel good going down under him.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Snypehunter007 » 11 Dec 2016, 23:00

Youbar wrote:The conclusions that you made, which lead to the ban, are invalid. I did not order a metarush, nor did I fail to properly execute somebody. No amount of arguing this fact will change my position, especially considering I have only had praise about my abilities, and gained respect, since I started playing commander again. You're free to stick your fingers in your ears, creating a nice, comfy echo chamber, and believe otherwise, however.
You actually did fail to follow proper execution protocol. TR even posted about so in the last post on you admin complaint: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=8860

Also, your comment regarding metarushing on the admin complaint worries me as well:
-"I did not position all four marine squads at the river. Stop saying this! Alpha was at engineering, and deployed five minutes early. Bravo was at the nexus establishing secondary fortifications. Charlie was supposed to be holding medical, but Delta had to move with them due to a lack of a squad leader. I find it ridiculous that you keep saying that I meta-rushed, but I was responding to a very visible threat skirmishing my marines. I do not care if there's an arbitrary 30-45 minute timer before marines can cross the river - nobody should ever have to sit by and twiddle their thumbs, pretending that there's nothing right on the opposite bank when marines are being visibly dragged across it."

Specifically the "I do not care if there's an arbitrary 30-45 minute timer before marines can cross the river" bit. It is okay to respond to being attacked by the xenos but simply not caring about metarushing is worrying.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 11 Dec 2016, 23:10

Snypehunter007 wrote:Specifically the "I do not care if there's an arbitrary 30-45 minute timer before marines can cross the river" bit. It is okay to respond to being attacked by the xenos but simply not caring about metarushing is worrying.
We've got two very contrasting points of view here, Snypehunter007. You state that it's "okay to respond to being attacked by the Xenos", but then go back on your point, stating that "simply not caring about metarushing is worrying". Which is it? Do you believe that commanders should disregard their duty to help marines, and let them be picked off by hostiles along the riverbank, or do you believe that commanders should follow after hostiles, and attempt to retrieve numerous conscious marines concentrated in a single area?
Where do you draw the line, Snypehunter007? Do you think 30 minutes from deployment is the magical number that suddenly allows operational flexibility, or do you think commanders should be able to respond to threats immediately as they present themselves? For the sake of not getting job banned again, I consistently ahelp about conducting offensives, but it doesn't make me any more supportive of having to hold myself back due to some artificial regulation.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Snypehunter007 » 11 Dec 2016, 23:23

Youbar wrote:We've got two very contrasting points of view here, Snypehunter007. You state that it's "okay to respond to being attacked by the Xenos", but then go back on your point, stating that "simply not caring about metarushing is worrying". Which is it? Do you believe that commanders should disregard their duty to help marines, and let them be picked off by hostiles along the riverbank, or do you believe that commanders should follow after hostiles, and attempt to retrieve numerous conscious marines concentrated in a single area?
Where do you draw the line, Snypehunter007? Do you think 30 minutes from deployment is the magical number that suddenly allows operational flexibility, or do you think commanders should be able to respond to threats immediately as they present themselves? For the sake of not getting job banned again, I consistently ahelp about conducting offensives, but it doesn't make me any more supportive of having to hold myself back due to some artificial regulation.
I stated that you not caring about the metarushing rule at ALL was worrying. It is ENTIRELY valid to respond to threats, but you shouldn't be uncaring of a rule completely. It is HIGHLY worrying that you don't want to follow the rule because you just don't like it.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 12 Dec 2016, 00:37

Snypehunter007 wrote:I stated that you not caring about the metarushing rule at ALL was worrying. It is ENTIRELY valid to respond to threats, but you shouldn't be uncaring of a rule completely. It is HIGHLY worrying that you don't want to follow the rule because you just don't like it.
Youbar wrote:For the sake of not getting job banned again, I consistently ahelp about conducting offensives, but it doesn't make me any more supportive of having to hold myself back due to some artificial regulation.
Do not put words in my mouth. I do not support the rule, but that does not mean I do not want to follow it. If I did not want to follow it, I wouldn't be admin helping to make sure my actions don't count as a "metarush'.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Feweh » 12 Dec 2016, 01:02

Your responses and general attitude fail to improve and it as usual is showing.

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 12 Dec 2016, 01:17

Feweh wrote:Your responses and general attitude fail to improve and it as usual is showing.
There are a small subgroup of people who believe I'm an incompetent commander, not based on proper experience, but on pre-existing biases. Don't make the mistake of me directly challenging their beliefs as some symptom of a "worsening attitude", when I haven't comitted the slightest wrong.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Surrealistik » 12 Dec 2016, 04:41

I'll make you a deal: never order FOB at Nexus, ever, and make doping your marines on performance enhancing drugs part of your SOP and you have my vote.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 12 Dec 2016, 04:53

Surrealistik wrote:I'll make you a deal: never order FOB at Nexus, ever, and make doping your marines on performance enhancing drugs part of your SOP and you have my vote.
Well, both of those are logical. I don't establsh FOBs at the Nexus, because it doesn't contain any critical supplies, and I ensure that marines are given performance enhancing drugs, as that improves their ability to wittle down hostile numbers. You have a deal.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by slc97 » 12 Dec 2016, 07:57

Youbar wrote:There are a small subgroup of people who believe I'm an incompetent commander, not based on proper experience, but on pre-existing biases. Don't make the mistake of me directly challenging their beliefs as some symptom of a "worsening attitude", when I haven't comitted the slightest wrong.
I do not doubt your ability to be a commander. I doubt your ability to follow the rules as a commander due to your past history. I asked you about your past history hoping that you would give me a reason why you've changed your ways since you last broke the rules for being a CO. In response, you attacked my competence as a staff member. This doesn't bother me, plenty of people have done it. What bothers me is that instead of telling me why you'd changed your ways, you claimed that what you had done was not breaking the rules and that I and 2 (at the time) heads of staff were wrong. This simply bolsters my original opinion.

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Rob606 » 12 Dec 2016, 10:53

Youbar wrote:Do you believe that commanders should disregard their duty to help marines, and let them be picked off by hostiles along the riverbank, or do you believe that commanders should follow after hostiles, and attempt to retrieve numerous conscious marines concentrated in a single area? [...] Do you think 30 minutes from deployment is the magical number that suddenly allows operational flexibility, or do you think commanders should be able to respond to threats immediately as they present themselves?
Here you seem to show disdain for the Metarush rule, and yet in my commander application thread:
Youbar wrote:I can appreciate this mentality in a commander. They're not playing to win, but rather, to make the match as interesting as possible. Static games, where both marines and Xenoes engage in war of attrition, tend to be the norm, instead of the exception.
This is in reference to me stating that turtle tactics are no fun for anyone. I think what you fail to see is that the Xenos are players too, and their level of fun in a game matters. As a commander, you can spoil EVERYTHING by allowing the metarush. Not only do the marines start to get greedy and push too far, costing them greatly, but it can also fuck the Xenos over when they're all still Younglings and thus barely a challenge. This metarush often has the consequence that the xenos are constantly on the backfoot until the marines push hard enough to kill them, and the round's over in an hour and a half, and 50% of the marines have never seen a lick of action. That's not what the CM developers have in mind for a round, clearly.

The point I'm trying to make is that the key to a good commander is someone who can appreciate that the point of the game is for everyone to at least have some fun in some way. Respecting your enemy, the xeno players, is a key part of this meta view. If metarush were allowed, Xenos would be constantly fucked and no one would play Xeno. GG, the devs have to buff xenos to help them survive the beginning rush.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 12 Dec 2016, 18:30

slc97 wrote:I do not doubt your ability to be a commander. I doubt your ability to follow the rules as a commander due to your past history. I asked you about your past history hoping that you would give me a reason why you've changed your ways since you last broke the rules for being a CO. In response, you attacked my competence as a staff member. This doesn't bother me, plenty of people have done it. What bothers me is that instead of telling me why you'd changed your ways, you claimed that what you had done was not breaking the rules and that I and 2 (at the time) heads of staff were wrong. This simply bolsters my original opinion.
My mistake, then. When you first posted that question, I was willing to respond, until I saw that rather than waiting for a response, you'd decided to give me a "no" vote. From the start, I figured that rather than attempting to get a proper response from me, you simply wanted to rub the prior ban into my face. You've got to understand that I figured you might allow me to voice my defense before immediately making a decision after posting.

Here's my opinion on the results of the admin complaint:
  • I did not properly announce an execution. You said this was the case yourself, so I'm sticking by your words. I was one or two words (maybe a few more) away from it being proper, so as you might understand, I'm fairly annoyed that I got a warning for it, but I've become a lot more careful about how I word and process them (executions as a whole) now.
  • I partially agree that I conducted a meta-rush. The circumstances were iffy, but it was easiest to attach Delta to Alpha squad at hydroponics, where they'd be close to the action, than move them back down to the nexus/FOB. When I found out that they were being attacked heavily, I made the marines attack, rather than considering Xenoes and allowing them to build up strength beforehand. Although, it did feel like quite a long time from deployment to offensive. As Rob said above, I have to consider other players - and that, I do. I no longer position more than one squad by the river, only reinforcing if needed, and I always wait until the 12:45 mark before moving anybody up for an offensive, frequently sending an ahelp beforehand.
Now, excuse the mistake, but I originally feel like you went in here with hostile intentions, and I returned that same favour. What I did did break the rules, but I still feel like, for the execution alone, it was quite in the murky area if I had failed to announce an execution properly. A nudge in the right direction to make a better one, and announcing it again shortly after, might have been better than facing a job ban from commander.
I'd also like to point out that, since my job ban, I haven't broken any rules. I learned from it, and this trend can continue to apply when I get whitelisted. It hasn't been broken since, and I don't why it'd be broken in the future, although I don't blame you for believing so based on my most recent responses.
Rob606 wrote:Here you seem to show disdain for the Metarush rule, and yet in my commander application thread:

The point I'm trying to make is that the key to a good commander is someone who can appreciate that the point of the game is for everyone to at least have some fun in some way. Respecting your enemy, the xeno players, is a key part of this meta view. If metarush were allowed, Xenos would be constantly fucked and no one would play Xeno. GG, the devs have to buff xenos to help them survive the beginning rush.
I understand why the metarush rule exists. I do not disagree with it, I do not actively attempt to circumvent it, but I cannot support some of the principles behind it. There was a thread a while back that expressed a common dislike for the fact marines weren't allowed to pursue the Xenomorphs who were dragging them all into the same area. This is ultimately a matter of game design, rather than a flaw in how the Xenoes operate, or the rule itself, as they only have one safe place to establish a hive (the caves), which is visibly across the river.
I do consider Xenomorphs when I play. I know that, if they were to board when a retreat has been ordered, and they'd likely be wiped out, I attempt a final offensive before making a complete withdrawl, either giving them numbers, or kicking the round back into action on the colony. I understand why the metarush rule exists, but it has some flaws behind it that relates to game mechanics, more than the reason why it exists. I could fully support a change where marine jumpsuits stop transmitting in the caves about their location, allowing command to not have an immediate pinpoint on the enemy hive. In fact, I don't even want to see the Xenoes nerfed, because they're already too few in number, which contrasts greatly to the movie, where they attack in swarms.
To summarise, Rob606, please do not mistake my dislike of the game mechanics surrounding the rule for my dislike of the rule itself. I understand why it's in place, but it needs some adjustments in-game to make it work practically, both for the Xenoes, and the marines.
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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by LocalizedDownpour » 13 Dec 2016, 21:07

I honestly have to change my vote. The way I see you act on other apps is appealing to say the least. Not to mention your inability to take criticism in the least. I was hopeful ar first, now im just disappointed.

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Re: Youbar's Commander Whitelist Application | Yamagata Aritomo

Post by Youbar » 13 Dec 2016, 21:57

LocalizedDownpour wrote:I honestly have to change my vote. The way I see you act on other apps is appealing(?) to say the least. Not to mention your inability to take criticism in the least. I was hopeful ar first, now im just disappointed.
I'm going to presume that you meant appalling.
In that regard, I do not think giving a truthful opinion of how I view a player is particularly wrong, considering the majority of people are downvoting me not for my competence, which this application is analysing, but rather my behaviour, nor do I feel that I should be described as "spiteful" because I ask a legitimate question in Slc97's application, which differed greatly in circumstances from the events described in my staff complaint.
To quote directly, "To be whitelisted is to be trusted that you have authority over the entire marine team and ship crew, and you are intimately educated with said authority. The purpose of the Commander is to instill a sense of purpose, organization, and focus with his or her subordinates. To have a Commander wake from cryo-sleep is to have hope of being freed from chaos or stagnation."
Nowhere in those words does it state that I'm unable to voice a negative thought on another applicant based on my experiences with them, or that I'm unable to partially disagree with, but still abide with, a rule solely because of the game mechanics relating to it. The basis of it relates to skill, and the ability to contribute to the round in a positive manner. People have repeatedly stated that I cannot be whitelisted because I might break the rules. I have yet to break a rule since my first incident with Slc97. Of course I'd be unable to take criticsim if the criticism is not grounded in reality.
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