The Occaisional Unreasonableness Due to Wording of Marine Law

[Loco52]

You've just proven your reading comprehension is lacking,


"In the event of a Delta Alert (activation of self destruct) any prisoners may be released if the MPs believe that they will not be a threat to the crew. A normal Red Alert, is not sufficient reason for a release unless the ship is being over-run by a large hostile force. "

So no, you don't HAVE to release them as you've previously stated.

A normal red alert means: a xenomorph on ship, ship having problems like unrepairable light issues, a traitor on board, etc. So that's not enough for releasing prisoners, we all agree on that.

But it clearly says after this delta alert warning that when the ship is overrun the prisoners are either to be secured in their prisons or taken out. NOW, if you want to take my words literal do it, marine law doesn't state you MUST release them when ship is overrun but if 35 xenos for example come on ship and you don't want to move 30 marines to defend the brig you have to take them out of prison, there's no inbetween, and whoever refuses to do either the first or the second as an MP or CMP deserves a jobban, as we saw a while ago when Sunny was left in perma when over 30 xenos jumped on ship.

And that is the main reason I, myself say it's a MUST to release them. If you want to cade the brig up when xenos hit the ship it's up to you but I doubt a lot that'll be done in any shift.

[awan]

Well, as I stated in the report. I specifically asked why they needed both in a pill and both are used to promote healing thus they are medication. Saline is also considered to be medication irl. But technicly it is salt and water both are 100% consumables. The issue is also that it is used to restore nutriment the thing food uses to check hunger levels. So you are replacing food with pills and you can take along those pills about 4 times as efficiently as food.

It is also 100% ok for the cmp to arrest you for Leaving flamers in general prep rooms. There is only one squad leader that I remember who I arrested directly for that all others have gotten warnings first. That one sl did not hear the warning because they did not have a headset on yet. (There was a general warning.) And that was yesterday with all of bravo not wanting to deploy.

There seem to be a lot of players who see proving the cmp wrong as a fun game. You will not prove anything by that and likely land yourself in the brig. I can play both good cop and bad cop and most of the time it is just machine/neutral cop. But if you go against me you are going to get brigged. And ill be honest but those who try to go against me do not need to get max time as they are likely going to commit multiple crimes.

Anything related to marine law is cmp stuff if you disagree with the cmp send a fax to high command or use proper channels. Do not try to find a loophole you think exists in marine law because that just will get a negative response from the mp's

Also, no one says you have to cade up the brig. There are 15 ways I can keep you as a prisoner safe with me being a little creative. If you are a danger to me icly then I will not let you out.

[Loco52]

Also, no one says you have to cade up the brig. There are 15 ways I can keep you as a prisoner safe with me being a little creative. If you are a danger to me icly then I will not let you out.

If you're the CMP and you're personally protecting the prisoner I believe it's not punishable to leave them in the brig with yourself because meh BUT I personally think it's a dumb/meta thing to do. Why? Imagine yourself irl solo protecting a prisoner against a bunch of acid spitting aliens, it's just not logical since you're sentencing your prisoner and yourself to complete annihilation, now if you're capable of doing a meme and kill 10 xenos well you're just that robust and go on with it. But however i'm still standing on the firm conviction if I was CMP i'd immediately release brigged prisoners and relocate them to a secure place if a big quantity of xenos were to hit the ship. For me it's still a must to release the prisoner and it should be that way for everyone who is genuinely trying to save the prisoners from becoming xeno food.

[VitorThauma]

It doesn't matter what you think about the marine law, if you are an MP you HAVE to follow the law to the letter. If you don't like the way it is write a suggestion to change it.

[ThePiachu]

This problem could be solved once and for all if Iron+Sugar pills would become their own medicine .

[Sulaboy]

Also, no one says you have to cade up the brig. There are 15 ways I can keep you as a prisoner safe with me being a little creative. If you are a danger to me icly then I will not let you out.

Under the prisoner right section in the wiki, it says

If the ship is at Red Alert, all MPs should return to the Brig to ensure the safety of prisoners.

Also here is the section on releasing prisoners

Release in the event of a catastrophe

In the event of a Delta Alert (activation of self destruct) any prisoners may be released if the MPs believe that they will not be a threat to the crew. A normal Red Alert, is not sufficient reason for a release unless the ship is being over-run by a large hostile force.
Note: a small force of enemies on board is not "over-run by a large hostile force". You should ensure the prisoners are kept safe and alive as long as they are in your custody, and release them only if this becomes impossible to perform due to a large enemy force.

[solidfury7]

A normal red alert means: a xenomorph on ship, ship having problems like unrepairable light issues, a traitor on board, etc. So that's not enough for releasing prisoners, we all agree on that.

But it clearly says after this delta alert warning that when the ship is overrun the prisoners are either to be secured in their prisons or taken out. NOW, if you want to take my words literal do it, marine law doesn't state you MUST release them when ship is overrun but if 35 xenos for example come on ship and you don't want to move 30 marines to defend the brig you have to take them out of prison, there's no inbetween, and whoever refuses to do either the first or the second as an MP or CMP deserves a jobban, as we saw a while ago when Sunny was left in perma when over 30 xenos jumped on ship.

And that is the main reason I, myself say it's a MUST to release them. If you want to cade the brig up when xenos hit the ship it's up to you but I doubt a lot that'll be done in any shift.

I'm not being funny man but you're misquoting marine law like crazy, this is incredibly important because marine law has to be taken literally to the point.

The prisoners must be secured, that means you can transport them to an alternative location which will be secured pending retaking the vessel or the evacuation of the vessel. It's been clarified previously on slack previously. As stated, MPs have the option to release them (which most MPS will do if it's a minor crime)

If an MP fails to follow marine law, they're boinked OOCLy, as it's an OOC issue, and it happens a lot.

[waswar]

Well, as I stated in the report. I specifically asked why they needed both in a pill and both are used to promote healing thus they are medication. Saline is also considered to be medication irl. But technicly it is salt and water both are 100% consumables. The issue is also that it is used to restore nutriment the thing food uses to check hunger levels. So you are replacing food with pills and you can take along those pills about 4 times as efficiently as food.

So iron and sugar is allowed, if the doctors, instead of saying both of the select ingredients is "to heal", instead only said that for one, and for the sugar they said "to make the pill filling", or "cause nausea to deter overdose"?

I don't think the efficiency of the pills over food is a big deal, though that's my opinion. It's made by Doctors in a futuristic society, that can make things like Dermaline which is already stronger than what the Medics receive in the form of Kelotane, as well as fill the cryo cells with liquids that magically eliminate all sorts of damage.

Saline is saltwater, and has a number of uses in the medical field, but is classified as a "mixture", which is basically what iron and sugar are. It's the difference between mixing noodles and cheese to make a tastelier meal, and tramadol and morphine to create maximal pain reduction. Two are basic food components that are eaten and naturally processed by the body, and the other two are chemical compounds and literal medication that manipulate the body to create a specific reaction that normally cannot normally be done with nature, and this is my issue with that interpretation of the law until there's a clear consensus from either Apophis himself, or the administrative team, rather than some saying they are combinations, and other saying "I can't comment on that, ask Apophis", leaving everything open-ended.

[Loco52]

I'm not being funny man but you're misquoting marine law like crazy, this is incredibly important because marine law has to be taken literally to the point.

The prisoners must be secured, that means you can transport them to an alternative location which will be secured pending retaking the vessel or the evacuation of the vessel. It's been clarified previously on slack previously. As stated, MPs have the option to release them (which most MPS will do if it's a minor crime)

If an MP fails to follow marine law, they're boinked OOCLy, as it's an OOC issue, and it happens a lot.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, as of now marine law states

1) If there is a delta alert prisoners must be released
2) Red alert is not enough for releasing prisoner
3) Prisoners must be secured or released if station is over-run (or, prisoners must not be released if station is over-run which I believe is the same? Maybe I should suggest a wiki clarification over this)

So again basing ourselves on option number 3 you can either follow the most logical step which is relocating the prisoner or you could always you know grab a shotgun and bring 3 mps to die in brig with you along with the prisoner.

[Sulaboy]

1) If there is a delta alert prisoners must be released
2) Red alert is not enough for releasing prisoner
3) Prisoners must be secured or released if station is over-run (or, prisoners must not be released if station is over-run which I believe is the same? Maybe I should suggest a wiki clarification over this)

1) You are not forced to release the prisoners on delta, but you are required to keep them safe if you do keep them.
2) You can release on code red if there is a large enemy force on the ship.
3) I don't quite understand what you're saying, but moving prisoners from the brig could cause problems.

Some tasks become impossible after a while, and MPs are not expected to perform the impossible.

[awan]

If you're the CMP and you're personally protecting the prisoner I believe it's not punishable to leave them in the brig with yourself because meh BUT I personally think it's a dumb/meta thing to do. Why? Imagine yourself irl solo protecting a prisoner against a bunch of acid spitting aliens, it's just not logical since you're sentencing your prisoner and yourself to complete annihilation, now if you're capable of doing a meme and kill 10 xenos well you're just that robust and go on with it. But however i'm still standing on the firm conviction if I was CMP i'd immediately release brigged prisoners and relocate them to a secure place if a big quantity of xenos were to hit the ship. For me it's still a must to release the prisoner and it should be that way for everyone who is genuinely trying to save the prisoners from becoming xeno food.

It never states how I have to defend them. I can lock down the brig or even stick them in a locker and I would still be following the ooc rules on this. And I do not have to release them it has already been ruled that taking them to the pods in cuffs is fine aswell. Even taking them out of the brig is ok if they are perma prisoners.

Under the prisoner right section in the wiki, it says




Also here is the section on releasing prisoners

You just confirm what I say. I do not have to cade up the brig it is 100% my choice how I defend them.

So iron and sugar is allowed, if the doctors, instead of saying both of the select ingredients is "to heal", instead only said that for one, and for the sugar they said "to make the pill filling", or "cause nausea to deter overdose"?

I don't think the efficiency of the pills over food is a big deal, though that's my opinion. It's made by Doctors in a futuristic society, that can make things like Dermaline which is already stronger than what the Medics receive in the form of Kelotane, as well as fill the cryo cells with liquids that magically eliminate all sorts of damage.

Saline is saltwater, and has a number of uses in the medical field, but is classified as a "mixture", which is basically what iron and sugar are. It's the difference between mixing noodles and cheese to make a tastelier meal, and tramadol and morphine to create maximal pain reduction. Two are basic food components that are eaten and naturally processed by the body, and the other two are chemical compounds and literal medication that manipulate the body to create a specific reaction that normally cannot normally be done with nature, and this is my issue with that interpretation of the law until there's a clear consensus from either Apophis himself, or the administrative team, rather than some saying they are combinations, and other saying "I can't comment on that, ask Apophis", leaving everything open-ended.

I said that to point out that even they stated it is medication. The use is for medical reasons and no trying to wiggle your way out of it wont work.

[waswar]

I said that to point out that even they stated it is medication. The use is for medical reasons and no trying to wiggle your way out of it wont work.

Maybe a doctor who didn't make it was the one that said it, so the use of 'even they' does not really lend to this particular point. There is still lacking evidence to paint iron and sugar as a medication rather than a mixture like any other food is, in contrast to actual medication which are chemical compounds not typically found in nature.

Besides, you had to ask a doctor to get that answer to justify the arrest that round. So you're saying that in that case, the Doctor needed to state it to confirm it, but in any other cases, where the doctors may more willing to manipulate it, you'll just ignore it, or ask more doctors until one of them gives you an answer that allows you to make an arrest, in case you would go through it as before and mayhap pretend to give them the benefit of the doubt until you can get a mechanically-minded doctor(Because let's face it, the doctors that blurt it out unknowingly just refer to its effects when it's administered, it's the same as people who metagame welding vents, or say they eat so they don't run slowly) to state something potentially incriminating?

[Loco52]

It never states how I have to defend them. I can lock down the brig or even stick them in a locker and I would still be following the ooc rules on this. And I do not have to release them it has already been ruled that taking them to the pods in cuffs is fine aswell. Even taking them out of the brig is ok if they are perma prisoners.

I think I was misunderstood, when I said "release" I didn't mean uncuff them. I meant take them out of brig. But I don't believe sticking them in a locker or locking down the brig knowing these creatures can open lockers and can acid down structures is ok, however I believe marine law will be always open to interpretation unless there is a clarification on this matter in the near future.

[Loco52]

1) You are not forced to release the prisoners on delta, but you are required to keep them safe if you do keep them.
2) You can release on code red if there is a large enemy force on the ship.
3) I don't quite understand what you're saying, but moving prisoners from the brig could cause problems.

Some tasks become impossible after a while, and MPs are not expected to perform the impossible.

My 2 and 3 are close-related, since it has to do with red alert.

I base my 3 statements on these specific lines from the marine law:

1- Release in the event of a catastrophe
In the event of a Delta Alert (activation of self destruct) any prisoners may be released if the MPs believe that they will not be a threat to the crew.
2 and 3 - A normal Red Alert, is not sufficient reason for a release unless the ship is being over-run by a large hostile force.
Note: a small force of enemies on board is not "over-run by a large hostile force". You should ensure the prisoners are kept safe and alive as long as they are in your custody, and release them only if this becomes impossible to perform due to a large enemy force.

Means: a single xeno in ship not enough to release prisoner but a full headon xeno invasion is enough reason to do so. And if I am the CMP I will.

[OatzAndHoes]

A lot of MPs use the role to soft-grief. I've watched them rack up a baldie on like 4 different charges and giving them over an hour sentence for accidentally priming a nade in a situation where nobody got hurt. I'm sure that player got a bad impression and never came back.