how op are predators?

[Aestel]

its really not as hard as you think it is lol, how do you think people land PBs on moving lurkers? by one PB they'll be massively slowed down, stunned and with broken bones. the "magical healing crystal" is in fact not instant healing and takes several (5+)minutes to heal you up from red to full hp, whereas it takes up to a quarter of an hour to heal broken bones

Lucky shots. PB does not stun predators longer than the server tick to cock and fire again. Now land another two while not getting decapped by a warglaive, instantly critted by a spike gun, or the pred cloaking and running. Ill wait.

cheating preds by cheating (aka being smart) is the intended way to kill preds instead of thinking your one shot wonder buckshot shotgun will do all the work

i dont mind people cheating to kill me, sure its the suck for me but they outsmarted me so more power to em

The fact that you think it takes cheating in your own mind to kill you speaks volumes about how broken predators are.

To be fair that's how 90% of the pred material ends, with the pred being outsmarted in some spectacular plan and then dying.

Except that movie with the xenos, where one kill two and almost kills a third several times. Are we being faithful to the material or not because people are sending mixed messages.

[MattAtlas]

Lucky shots. PB does not stun predators longer than the server tick to cock and fire again. Now land another two while not getting decapped by a warglaive, or instantly critted by a spike gun. Ill wait.




The fact that you think it takes cheating in your own mind to kill you speaks volumes about how broken predators are.

i didnt say that it took cheating to kill me lol, i just said i dont mind people cheating to kill me - please don't assume things i haven't said. a good mature defender can whoop my ass, an elder+ runner can whoop my ass if they're good, a marine who knows how to KO a pred can whoop my ass as well, a gang of marines will whoop my ass as well, a marine with 2 HEDPs in his UGL can whoop my ass, an RPG spec can instakill me from offscreen, a B18 spec will stunlock me, a flamer marine can fuck me over with a good flame, a pyro spec will blue flame me and kill me in 2 seconds flat... and so on. perhaps you might need to overcome difficulties to 1v1 a pred - much like 1v1ing xenos. its not bad that you have to put more effort into killing something, is it?

one PB buckshot blast will slow down a pred considerably, its trivial to land the others

[Karmac]

Please provide an image of a time when you weren't a living meme. Try contributing something to the argument for once in your 2k+ posts.

says the person pointlessly over-exaggerating the health and armour of predators while desperately pleading for people to understand that they are 'stupidly OP' and 'complete bullshit'

[Aestel]

i didnt say that it took cheating to kill me lol, i just said i dont mind people cheating to kill me -

one PB buckshot blast will slow down a pred considerably, its trivial to land the others

cheating preds by cheating (aka being smart) is the intended way to kill preds.

please don't assume things i haven't said. a good mature defender can whoop my ass, an elder+ runner can whoop my ass if they're good, a marine who knows how to KO a pred can whoop my ass as well, a gang of marines will whoop my ass as well, a marine with 2 HEDPs in his UGL can whoop my ass, an RPG spec can instakill me from offscreen, a B18 spec will stunlock me... and so on

See this argument reminds me of the people who claim the xenos are under-powered because they aren't winning rather than the people just being bad at them, Ill dissect this one at a time for you:

1) a good mature defender can whoop my ass, an elder+ runner can whoop my ass if they're good

If you are even remotely robust, use traps, or in general have a brain you will win this engagement 100% of the time.

2)a marine who knows how to KO a pred can whoop my ass as wel
Strike to the head which requires you to be in melee range and survive the incoming warglaive. Since you are faster, you decide when this happens as the predator and have more time to react. Again: not be braindead

3) a gang of marines will whoop my as- *BLAM* Plasma caster

4)If you can't out maneuver an HEDP you wouldn't even be qualified to be a delta private.

5) SADAR spec is now wasting his time dealing with your shitty meme of a job instead of helping the marines against the xenos. One marine in the entire force should not be the only way to kill a pred. (Takes AP and a direct hit, lets also ignore the fact that preds can survive a direct tank hit, while on fire, and being run over for 5 minutes with the current tank)

6) Again, grenades and the getting good.

You are effectively countered by a single marine who honestly is a bit strong himself at the moment(which will likely be nerfed). This marine is also the prime target for the entire hive and will 75% of the time die in the first engagement due to that. Meanwhile, each of your weapons will 100% of the time kill marines should you happen to strike them with it.

When I compare predators to marines and xenos, I am assuming a player of equal skill level. This will not always be the case as all three sides have very unrobust and very robust people to tilt the scale depending on which one faces each other. A robust marine will dunk a braindead pred. A robust pred will massacre an unrobust hive. A robust pred will beat a squad of robust marines. See the argument? Balance design choices should always be done with an assumed level of equal skill because the alternative is impossible to achieve.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Look at all these predators rushing to defend their god-mode. Plasma caster will 100% wipe the entire squad/hive if you are even moderately robust and use even a hint of macros.

okay man that's just rude i'm just trying to counter your arguments

But 90% of you are. And 100% of you will use a caster against a group.

True, but that's what makes killing them so satisfying, that they're such absolute cunts to kill in the first place, unless you're a xeno that is.

Predators add nothing, aside from stroking the ego of the players who want a quick stomp that they call hunts. Remove em.

Lemme fix that for you:

BAD predators add nothing. Remove 'em.
A good predator is one who roleplays, who makes rounds interesting by doing unexpected shit, like meeting marines on even-ground and trading shit, having fun little standoffish RPs with hostile xenos, or, hell, taking people under their wing to become predator gladiators n' shit. THAT'S what a predator can add to a round. Hunts can be fun too, if the pred isn't just in it for themself, which bad preds are.

We both know the report system against whitelisted roles is an absolute joke. Not once have I seen anyone EVER be removed from the WL for any role.

yeah no i agree the report system is fucking awful.
But there's also the fact that preds live with *CONSTANT ANXIETY* that they're about to lose their whitelist for being stupid. That's why they're typically very coy.

[Build_R_]

Except that movie with the xenos, where one kill two and almost kills a third several times. Are we being faithful to the material or not because people are sending mixed messages.

Or the fact that those were youngbloods on their first hunt ever, or the fact that in the comics the predator has been able to kill human beings in actual super suits. Perhaps we should consider the first movie where the predator eliminated an entire squad except for 2 people? Maybe the second film where he killed 2 street gangs, a shooting range full of armed policemen, a train of civilians and a team of black ops agents. These are all also good material. In other material with preds and xenos the predators tend to wipe through waves of xenos by the way, source: "predator:concrete jungle", "AvP game".

The message is clear bud, you just don't like it

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

you realise that if preds died to 2 pointblank buckshots they'd be an absolute joke of a role correct?

you know who shouldn't survive 3 tail stabs to the face? a marine, yet they often do. there are gameplay concessions that we have to make despite how """"unrealistic"""" (realism is a shit argument in any game) they seem

its also fucking dumb an elder queen dies to 2 pointblank buckshots but i dont see anyone complaining about the realism there, or even complaining about it really

i may have accidentally tested this

preds die to 3 PB buckshot rounds

[Mancakefacepan]

Most of my experience with preds has been pretty neutral, and i've seen great instances of RP from preds on occasions. But the times that stick out are the times that are utter bullshit.

An example last night was a pred casually wandering into the center of the hive located at the far southeast caves from eta labs on Big Red last night around 10 minutes into the start of the round, t2's had only just evolved.

Of course the preds are bound by their honor code not to start fights with the young xenos but are perfectly capabale of "fighting back" which of course is guranteed cos there's always gonna be one baldie who slashes the intruder. especially inthe middle of a packed hive at the start of a round.

The pred in question immediately eviscerated the offending young spitter and of course this was completely legal according to the "honor" code, and the xenos had to just sit and watch or risk having their entire hive "legally" obliterated.

Other times i've seen preds wander into the middle of the hive (literally where the queen is ovid) because their "prey" (in this case a prae that wadered near the front lines for about 30 seconds in order to make sticky resin) was present. When the queen took rightful unbrage against a pred literally killing one of her valuable t3 in the middle of the hive the pred opened up with his entire arsenal, because he could. Taking out the prae, the queen and a bunch of assorted sentinels and other t1's and 2's.

He was of course completely in his rights to do this because he was "hunting" the prae he saw for a few seconds and because the hive interefered in his "hounourable" hunt.

The resulting round ended up being one of those 4 hour slogs that nobody enjoys because the xenos who had been winning up until that point became crippled and neither side had the advantage or were able to push.

This was one of the cases where a single pred ruined a round for nearly 100 other players and did it completely within the rules he is given.

It was personally hard not to see this as admin enabled soft griefing.

I think that like with the recent changes to Marine law the pred honor code needs to be reviewed to do away with loopholes and grey areas. because right now it's lesss of an honor code and is more like an honor system and so long as a pred can pretzel the code to justify his actions then it's all legit.

[Build_R_]

Would it be preferable if preds had a "cap" on how much prey they could hunt in a round? Like 3 T1s, 2 T2s or 1T3. For marines maybe a 5 marine cap?

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Would it be preferable if preds had a "cap" on how much prey they could hunt in a round? Like 3 T1s, 2 T2s or 1T3. For marines maybe a 5 marine cap?

There's already a bit of a soft limit on that, as one of the 'hidden rules' for preds is "Don't fuck with the round balance"

Like that one time I killed 8 xenos... I got reported and warned for that quite fairly.

[x31stOverlord]

Our preds are severely hampered by the honour code as it stands, in films, the Predators aren't quite fussy with how and when they can whip out the Casters, the only thing they seem to not kill is the Pregnant and those who are too sick to fight.

I agree that Preds probably shouldn't be uber tanks, but game balance trumps "realism" in this sci-fi setting. I agree that you raise a good point about the preds being picked off by lesser castes in the films, but as already pointed out, that was the first "real" hunt for those preds, youngbloods who'd never fought a Xeno before and got over-confident in their fighting.

In the comics, the way a new Pred clan is made is where up to 3 Predators conduct a "hive cleansing" of a hive size of at least ~300 xenos including the queen. So 3 Preds kill over 300 Xenos and survive to go on to form a new clan.

[Build_R_]

In the comics, the way a new Pred clan is made is where up to 3 Predators conduct a "hive cleansing" of a hive size of at least ~300 xenos including the queen. So 3 Preds kill over 300 Xenos and survive to go on to form a new clan.

That sounds pretty interesting actually, which comic is that?

[Sleepy Retard]

snip

the thing is you overestimate how good preds are

the heavy plasma caster has such a huge delay that you can fire once and will die 9/10 times if you dont leave after firing

the war glaive has a lot of raw damage, but it will absorb most of the time against helmets - most of the time the hits will literally do nothing, on the strongest damage wise weapon

the spike gun doesn't insta crit, but it sure does break a bone on limbs. there's a reason why most us abhor the use of it

traps also aren't things you use in 1v1s, because they disable abilitys and make them move to a crawl. it's weird how you talk about 'have a brain' or 'robust' but you clearly really haven't looked into preds, you're frothing at the mouth like a little child for very little reason than you can. in melee, if the marine is smacking with his rifle or shotgun, half the time he will knock out the pred. PB buckshot makes preds so slow you can run faster than them. AP BC literally chunks preds, you can ask broden, jules, randal, literally anyone who takes that loadout. Jules almost killed two predators due to the raw DPS of the AP BC thing.

most of your arguments consist of insulting the other person, making up things which you have no proof for, and throwing a hissy fit. and it also makes sense, because i've always said you're unable to control your emotions whenever people disagree with you/don't get your way. Get some proof how the HPC is a rapid fire machine gun and instantly kills 900 children at once. Get me proof that PB buckshot does nothing. Get me proof that the warglaive instant decaps. Get me proof that preds have so much armour that they are literally unkillable. Get me some proof of anything that you said is true so you don't look like a sniveling man child.

I did agree with you that we had too many stat buffs, but the rest you made up so you can be angrier.

[Dolth]

I mean I remember a direct hit with blue flames leaving z pred almost unharmed. And two PB just slightly slowing another pred.

As far as I am aware, speed and tackles are the key to SS13 combat. Assuming preds are extremely fast, tankie, have some huge healing crystals, can stun AND harm a group (and proceed to a tacticool 1 glaive hit per target to keep them in crit). Yeeeah. I think we can say they are OP. But I don't mind, game ain't meant to be fair and hell they are preds afterall.

Also to whomever says they aren't OP because they can die to a claymore followed by a M56D burst or a PB BC.
Yeaaaah. Just like mostly everything.

Voilà! And one day I shall prove you a pred can kill more than 5 beno!

[Sleepy Retard]

I mean I remember a direct hit with blue flames leaving z pred almost unharmed. And two PB just slightly slowing another pred.

As far as I am aware, speed and tackles are the key to SS13 combat. Assuming preds are extremely fast, tankie, have some huge healing crystals, can stun AND harm a group (and proceed to a tacticool 1 glaive hit per target to keep them in crit). Yeeeah. I think we can say they are OP. But I don't mind, game ain't meant to be fair and hell they are preds afterall.

Also to whomever says they aren't OP because they can die to a claymore followed by a M56D burst or a PB BC.
Yeaaaah. Just like mostly everything.

Voilà! And one day I shall prove you a pred can kill more than 5 beno!

Karmac and I literally killed a pred with 2 normal flamethrower bursts and a PB (flechette no less) for good measure.

Healing crystals are slow but have high volume. They don't instantly heal us - it's 30 units that slowly tick down

Again, the glaive gets absorbed a lot. You need to have good RNG with it to actually do damage

[Dolth]

Guess RNG has a lot to do with it then. Because I am solid sure of what I just said. And then their clan sword hits harder than the glaive as far as I understand?

[MattAtlas]

Guess RNG has a lot to do with it then. Because I am solid sure of what I just said. And then their clan sword hits harder than the glaive as far as I understand?

nope, glaive is way stronger but very susceptible to block RNG

i can confidently say about half if not more of my hits whiff on marines w/ the glaive

[Sleepy Retard]

Guess RNG has a lot to do with it then. Because I am solid sure of what I just said. And then their clan sword hits harder than the glaive as far as I understand?

Clan sword has a very goofy stun that lots of preds like to use, its almost better in every single case due to the RNG stun.

[NescauComToddy]

Aestel, take a break of CM, you have always been a good person, and with a good way of thinking. I don’t care about you giving your opinion as long as you aren’t salty or being passively aggressive to other players for a frustration recently caused.

It's stupidly easy to be able to hit PBs on a predator when he's distracted or in a combat where there’s more than a Marine accompanying you. If you can’t accomplish such a thing, if there is someone unrobust here is you. In two years of CM, I have never seen so much discomfort on the part of someone who has been here for so long in something so simple and factual.

Unique-action can be configured as a macro, and if you're agile, you can fire a PB every couple of seconds, there's no challenge in using the shotgun at all against any mob as of now. You want one hit kill preds because you want the fight against them to be easy, right? While a pred is RP'ing ask a pyro-spec to burn it only once with blue flames and the predator will be forced to SD. If the predator is knocked down, he’ll stay between 40 seconds to 1 minute passed out. If you are still unable to hit 3 PBs on unconscious mobs for so long due to a claymore or a good RNG when a Marine attacks it with their rifle, I must not continue arguing.

You say all of this on account of never having played as a predator, never having understood how easy it is to make small mistakes and how punishing those mistakes are. Again, I have to repeat, are not you ashamed to lie about lodge baiting? It's been a couple of months at least that no lodge has been made, compose your arguments with facts, not lies.

Healing crystals take about two minutes on average to heal you completely. If you have dealt considerable damage to the pred before he uses the crystal, he will still be walking slowly and you will be able to chase him and kill him.

Concluding; you'll never understand how close preds are from death until you're one, and after these comments of yours, my vote on an app from you is already decided. I don’t care about my privileges, and I don’t defend our role because I have access to it. I understand the mechanics of the game, and I offer you facts. If you want to continue, I will not have any problems as long as you reduce that whole salt.

Before you claim how much I'm a pred-main with Man'sur, I make it clear that in every hunt round I do not play, I'm a xeno that after reaching mature or elite, love to make the whitelist newbies suffer by hunting them down. I have already defeated predators who have used all their arsenal, and some even in honorable duels, however much of the time, I die.

I don’t defend our mechanics because I abuse them or believe they are at risk (lol). I defend them because of the various blunders you are talking about in your last posts, something that I can not pass up. There have already been reported players who have lost their whitelists, or have had it revoked for months. The truth is that you don’t report because you know very well that no pred has broken the honor code, or that you simply don’t know what the honor code is about.


Take a break off, chief.

[Dolth]

Oh right. Thanks for the infos Matt & Gaynechka. Guess I will still use the glaive if I ever make it to the whitelist.

Also big oof Nescau. Usually I am the one being yelled at for expressing harshly :/.

[NescauComToddy]

On the comparison between glaive and sword; as has been said, the glaive causes much more damage, needing less than 6 hits approximately to critically injure any xeno with the exception of the predalien and possibly an Ancient Queen. But it’s attack speed is extremely slow and generally, most hits are misses.

Still, you'll want to keep your distance from a pred with it, since a single hit is more than capable of knocking you down and sealing your fate. In general, moving quickly and without pattern when a predator with a glaive comes after you is the ideal thing to do, because due to the slowness of it, you will rarely be hit by doing so.

Since the sword is different, there is no specific counter against it, because it is relatively fast, causes a considerable amount of damage, has as perk the ability to throw the opponent causing a knockdown and is the strongest melee weapon among the predators arsenal.

[Dolth]

The glaive misses that much? Really? I mean if the sword stuns aswell and does more than half a glaive then why would you use it.

I'd say 5 hit to crit a mature lurker. The wrist blades is insanely fast and is at 5. So I guess the sword is the same.

Don't misunderstand me tho I enjoy high cooldown high damage meler but if the glaive always misses I am gonna QQ.

[MattAtlas]

The glaive misses that much? Really? I mean if the sword stuns aswell and does more than half a glaive then why would you use it.

I'd say 5 hit to crit a mature lurker. The wrist blades is insanely fast and is at 5. So I guess the sword is the same.

Don't misunderstand me tho I enjoy high cooldown high damage meler but if the glaive always misses I am gonna QQ.

You ever get the thing where you can see your character hitting the other guy in melee, there's a chatlog but there's no sound or damage? That's what the glaive does more often than not

Biggest problem is that if you whiff the gigantic attack cooldown starts again and you wont be able to take on hordes with it

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

The glaive misses that much? Really? I mean if the sword stuns aswell and does more than half a glaive then why would you use it.

Because it looks gorgeous.

AM I WRONG?

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Current state of predators: