Smartgunner needs a buff?

[Garrison]

I am so happy about the Smart Gun ammo buff. Gone are the days of running out of Ammo midway through the first waves of carnage.

[Boersgard]

You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The Alpha Elder Empress hisses.
The thick resin wall is damaged by the smartgun bullet!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
You hear a loud cracking sound coming from Jack Leslie!
LCPL Jack Leslie screams!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The Alpha Elder Empress has grabbed Jack Leslie passively!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The thick resin wall is damaged by the smartgun bullet!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
The thick resin wall is damaged by the smartgun bullet!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The Alpha Elder Empress spits at Jack Leslie!
Jack Leslie is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The thick resin wall is damaged by the smartgun bullet!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the right foot!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The Alpha Elder Empress has grabbed Jack Leslie passively!
You begin feeding a fresh ammo belt into the M56 Smartgun. Don't move or you'll be interrupted.
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
The Alpha Elder Empress's thick exoskeleton deflects the smartgun bullet!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
Your reloading was interrupted!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The thick resin wall is damaged by the smartgun bullet!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The Alpha Elder Empress slashes Jack Leslie!
You fire the M56B smartgun (Wielded)!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the groin!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
Alpha Elder Empress is hit by the smartgun bullet in the chest!
The M56B smartgun (Wielded) is not ready to fire again!
The Alpha Elder Empress spits at the purple sac!
You are now carrying M56B smartgun with one hand.
You are hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
The M56B smartgun snaps into place on M56 combat harness.
The Alpha Elder Empress has grabbed Jack Leslie passively!

This is firing burst fires at 1-4 tile range with the Smartgun without attachments at a queen in a narrow 1-tile wide hallway. Literally just standing still with a guy blocking and firing the SG as fast as possible.
A further three buckshots and 7 M39 AP rounds following this up still didn't kill it.

Anyone telling me SG damage and accuracy is fine is off their rocker.

[Dolth]

Turn off your hud and go fight people without looking at your health and see how long you last. The only reason they never take you past 50% is because you are making a conscious decision to run when you start dying. You are just making shit up and saying we are liars trying to get free wins. You and the marine mains are the ones crying non stop since mutator came in because you cant even try to adapt to the game. The only people who say m41a are garbage are people who arent good at the game. Think about that for a minute.

M41A is garbage yet the second best tool regular marine have. And I don't wanna brag but I handle myself pretty fine on that game.

What he is saying is true, since mutators; a mature warrior will take 5-6 hits to be half HP and up to 10-12 to be crit. Unless you're standing still or running in a conga line doing a Prometheus-dodge or being chased by 5 marines there is almost no way for you to die properly.

Now imagine with the 56B that hit like a SMG or like a 41A but with cooldown and shit accuracy. Oh wow 15ish landed shots to kill that xeno? Assuming he dances around, you aren't killing shit.

56B needs the BC damage without the BC accuracy/spread/ROF downsides. At this point it will be useful. Especially with mutators.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Pretty sure with 2 health mutations (one from itself, one from the queen), one armor mutation, and one normal Warding for itself (thanks to pheromone Mutation); an Ancient drone can successfully walk away after 3 vanilla M41 bursts (no attachments, no AP) with ~10% HP. And that's with M41, a weapon that is basically better than M56 in every way aside from ammo storage (newly updated, so thanks on that. Before you can beat SG and his powerpack with 1 belt, 1 mag loaded in and 2 mags in armor) and IFF; can't even finish off an Ancient Drone properly.

Now look back at M56. It has neither the damage nor the accuracy to make it up for its terrible fire rate and fall off. It's gotten to a point where I wouldn't even target SGs now because I would much rather take out the dude with an M41 than the SG, since the SG will have a hard time doing anything else without some big dick damage from M41/M37 to make it worth.

[kastion]

M41A is garbage yet the second best tool regular marine have. And I don't wanna brag but I handle myself pretty fine on that game.

What he is saying is true, since mutators; a mature warrior will take 5-6 hits to be half HP and up to 10-12 to be crit. Unless you're standing still or running in a conga line doing a Prometheus-dodge or being chased by 5 marines there is almost no way for you to die properly.

Now imagine with the 56B that hit like a SMG or like a 41A but with cooldown and shit accuracy. Oh wow 15ish landed shots to kill that xeno? Assuming he dances around, you aren't killing shit.

56B needs the BC damage without the BC accuracy/spread/ROF downsides. At this point it will be useful. Especially with mutators.

I think its hilarious that yall consider 10-12 hits to be way too hard to kill something when you can hit it 6 times in 1.5 seconds with 1 marine. Litetrally any concentrated fire can hit something 12 times really really fast. Yall need to get over the "I cant 1v1 everything and win the game by myself so this shit is op" mentality yall all have.

[kastion]

All of this arguing is pointless anyways cause they have a gun overhaul coming and they are gonna force marines to stay near the SL with buffs and debuffs in the future so aliens are gonna have to all be tough enough to fight groups of marines instead of picking off retard ungas 1v1 and 1v2. Might as well wait for it. When they fuck up neuro and remove stuns from aliens the games gonna be completely different.

[Dolth]

Tone down right now young pleb.

I am screaming all the time it's beyond normal a xeno wins in a 1v1 and tackle/neuro/grab-locking makes sense BUT.

You're shooting 2 bursts in 2 seconds and half at most, you're gonna miss from accuracy 1 out of 6 at least and the xeno will prolly dodge half of each burst.

Hell with your theory marines are NOT capable of aiming properly with correct attachies at the correct moment without FFing and in a roughly floored calculated manner; most shots will either miss or won't connect and the few that will are now 33% more tanked.

I obviously know the game is meant to be based on marine teamplay, thanks I spent enough years here, but as a matter of fact: Xeno now have more armor and HP and damage and speed PERMANENTLY. Marines now have TEMPORARY (consumables) boosts which are shit since AP damage were nerfed.

So yes, having to land 33% more hits on sometimes faster targets who hits you syronger than before -IS- a pain.

And regarding the SG. Since it does SMG damage and you can't chase just explain how the hell do you hit something 15 times while chasing at walking speed?

You CAN'T unless the xeno gets stunned by anything or just super overextend.

SG needs M41A damage.

[kastion]

Tone down right now young pleb.

I am screaming all the time it's beyond normal a xeno wins in a 1v1 and tackle/neuro/grab-locking makes sense BUT.

You're shooting 2 bursts in 2 seconds and half at most, you're gonna miss from accuracy 1 out of 6 at least and the xeno will prolly dodge half of each burst.

Hell with your theory marines are NOT capable of aiming properly with correct attachies at the correct moment without FFing and in a roughly floored calculated manner; most shots will either miss or won't connect and the few that will are now 33% more tanked.

I obviously know the game is meant to be based on marine teamplay, thanks I spent enough years here, but as a matter of fact: Xeno now have more armor and HP and damage and speed PERMANENTLY. Marines now have TEMPORARY (consumables) boosts which are shit since AP damage were nerfed.

So yes, having to land 33% more hits on sometimes faster targets who hits you syronger than before -IS- a pain.

And regarding the SG. Since it does SMG damage and you can't chase just explain how the hell do you hit something 15 times while chasing at walking speed?

You CAN'T unless the xeno gets stunned by anything or just super overextend.

SG needs M41A damage.

You aren't shooting 2 bursts in 2 seconds because the timer starts when you fire the first burst and it doesn't take 2 seconds to fire a 2nd burst. Not my fault RNG is stupid. There are times I get hit by every single shot from the burst and other times they don't hit at all. They should make RNG less stupid but you cant balance around the times you miss when there are times you hit everything. That's why RNG is stupid.

Xenos don't have 33% more stats they have 5-10% more stats now. Is that a 33% gain in combat effectiveness? I doubt it. Yall also act like everyone has 4 mutations when only t1 get to ancient normally. Occasionally a t2, and pretty much never a t3/queen. Yall are also not factoring in mutations like weeds/pheromones/whatever that isn't speed/armor/health/damage. Yall are so hung up on SG taking 15 hits to kill something. It is a support weapon. NOT a 1v1 weapon. If SG sucks so fucking bad just take a shotgun and an m41a while wearing the SG armor to run faster. Yall assign 0 value to IFF when it is one of the best attributes a gun can have.

And you should "tone down right now young pleb" because I am the equivalent to you on xeno side. I am so much better than the average xeno its not even funny and I still die to things all the time so I know xenos aren't that strong. Yall just have confirmation bias because xenos are faceless so you think 1 lurker is killing your entire team when its actually 5 lurkers coming and going because you cant tell the difference. You don't notice when you kill a xeno because it seems like there are unending amounts of them still coming. You don't see that 5 xenos died but are replaced by 5 more from captures so it seems like no one is dying. None of you give any credit to xeno players saying it takes no skill and no tactics when it takes way more skill and tactics than being a retard with a shotgun. I see a totally different side of the game that most of you never even play at all and think you know everything about when you don't.

[Avalanchee]

I am for IFF removal if the Smartgun gets actual damage

[Gnorse]

If you're out here saying the SG is good because it has IFF then you're on some shit.
without taking the retarded wield delay and slowdown into account, you gotta deal with damage falloff. so if you're putting the IFF to good use then you gotta be behind at least one marine and that gives you 3 tiles you can shoot at before the damage falloff kicks in, and that's not even counting the shitty accuracy/AP.

and to put it into perspective, there are FOUR of these guns in the entire PLATOON.

[kastion]

If you're out here saying the SG is good because it has IFF then you're on some shit.
without taking the retarded wield delay and slowdown into account, you gotta deal with damage falloff. so if you're putting the IFF to good use then you gotta be behind at least one marine and that gives you 3 tiles you can shoot at before the damage falloff kicks in, and that's not even counting the shitty accuracy/AP.

and to put it into perspective, there are FOUR of these guns in the entire PLATOON.

It is good because it has IFF, its not great, but its good. Yall see thing as either great or garbage when there is actually a lot of middle ground. Could the SG use more buffs? maybe, atleast it got more ammo and now the annoying red glow is gone. We will have to wait and see what happens in the future. How many aliens fight you from more than 3 tiles away? 2? not counting boiler obviously. If I was devs I would take away the wield delay next and see how it feels.

[Dolth]

-snip

Again don't make me say what I did not, I am already aware that playing xeno -efficiently- takes skill and jesus if you were with me on TS you would hear me giving credits to xeno more than once. Also, understand that we (at least I) clearly identify some xeno during a round just with their behaviour, really.
Also if you would play marine more often you would perhaps figure out yourself how often you identify specific xenos and easily count them down.

Now regarding the 33%. If we needed 9 shots to crit and now we need 12, then xeno are roughly 33% more resistant since the queen almost always grant extra HP and combat caste adds armor. Boom, young t2 has armpr+hp and tanks like elder. While marines didn't get 33% of extra fireppwer but rather some QoL. Yes it's hard to quantify but at least hace those numbers make the convo easier.

Also, yes it takes 1 second to press the second burst trigger but 2 seconds for the 6 bullets to hit. That's why I said 2 secs. And that's without BC btw.
Now if a xeno move perpendiculary from a marine shooting bursts in the very best case 2 connects, 2 squares. Worst case none connects and eveb though they would miss. I am saying that because shooting bursts, beside RNG/miss, is hard to aim UNLESS the xeno runs in a line. Please understand the difference between a miss and shooting around the xeno.

Regarding SG now, even with 2 m41a in front of you, the amount of damage you deal is so fucking low the only situation you are useful in is shoo'ing a runner after a queen screech. You seem to not understand how complicated it is to get other marines focus on the same target AND STILL they have to lower the xeno health by 80ish% for you to crit it with the random 3 shots you maybe land from 5 tiles away since you're using IFF, on a moving target.

And so far I was well aware of all you have said. But you're free to enlight me if you manage.

EDIT: If you thinks there are xeno fighting at 3 tiles from the SG while he uses IFF you need to play marine more often lol.

[kastion]

snip

I am talking about all marines not you specifically with what im saying. I am not putting words in your mouth, it may be directed towards you but im not targeting you. I do play marine occasionally, I usually follow you around when I do. The problem with saying "we need more damage to counter their 33% resistance" is that the whole point was to make xenos stronger. If you just give marines 33% more damage (which again is too much for 1 marine it owuld have to be like 8% each to make group fights not retarded) then it makes the entire buff pointless. We have had 1 week of testing in which xenos are WAY overpopulated and have been crushing rounds completely so its hard to see what is really going on.

Yes xenos wont run in a straight line if they are trying to get away, but they have to run in a straight line at some point to attack you because they cant move diagonally (with the exception of pouncing you which is a big distance they can cover). Even if they pounce you thats what team mates are for especially anyone that has a shotgun.

If you have 2 m41a marines (that can aim and dont miss all their shots) and an sg behind them, it shouldnt be that hard to hit them for 12 hits worth of damage between 3 players. I know not every situation is that clean but we cant account for every single situation. As far as team work goes welcome to CM, xenos have no fucking team work either and its massively frustrating. Atleast yall get to metabuddy with people you know who will get your back like you and kesserline working together.

Idk what you mean by "If you thinks there are xeno fighting at 3 tiles from the SG while he uses IFF you need to play marine more often lol." Every xeno except spitter/boiler/praetorian has to get close to fight you.

[Dolth]

Surprisingly I agree with most of what you just said lol.

Yup the supposed 33% tougher certainly NOT appeal to a 33% firepower buff, but an in-between would be appreciated since that's one of the reason we get steamrolled. And yes the fun provided by mutators appealed much more players than the usual. (Myself included speed/runner speed/combathugging carrier reee).

Keep in mind that even if marines are supposed to be strong in groups, well, they aren't lol. As another matter of fact they just do retarded stuff constantly and a simple wall of 2 rifle with 1 SG and 1 shotgunner PB BC behind, no one on harm intent, is a HUGE achievement if ever done while it's just basic. What I am saying is even if marines have the possibilities of winning, yes, they just don't do it and we get steamrolled lol.

Using SG IFF advantage you're really rarely just 1 tile sitting behind a marine being eaten. Most likely you will stay 1 tile behind and aliens will just clutches around, and you will get pushed if you ust stay at the second line UNLESS you are defending a position but then here you need burst of damages and your few low dmg bullets will more than rarely make a difference.

Now lemme say I am glad we didn't get this thread into a big ass arguing lol, cheers.

[kastion]

Surprisingly I agree with most of what you just said lol.

Yup the supposed 33% tougher certainly NOT appeal to a 33% firepower buff, but an in-between would be appreciated since that's one of the reason we get steamrolled. And yes the fun provided by mutators appealed much more players than the usual. (Myself included speed/runner speed/combathugging carrier reee).

Keep in mind that even if marines are supposed to be strong in groups, well, they aren't lol. As another matter of fact they just do retarded stuff constantly and a simple wall of 2 rifle with 1 SG and 1 shotgunner PB BC behind, no one on harm intent, is a HUGE achievement if ever done while it's just basic. What I am saying is even if marines have the possibilities of winning, yes, they just don't do it and we get steamrolled lol.

Using SG IFF advantage you're really rarely just 1 tile sitting behind a marine being eaten. Most likely you will stay 1 tile behind and aliens will just clutches around, and you will get pushed if you ust stay at the second line UNLESS you are defending a position but then here you need burst of damages and your few low dmg bullets will more than rarely make a difference.

Now lemme say I am glad we didn't get this thread into a big ass arguing lol, cheers.

I think they need to remove or drastically lower SG wield delay so the SG can position itself better. Team mate just got jumped on? let me run up and PB that fucker with my SG. Shit they are running at us? let me run and make sure im still behind other marines but it wont take me forever to wield so I can start fighting back asap. Little things like that make a big difference. Plus positioning is rewarded by skill, more damage any retard can use. Im sure the SG will get a little buff in damage eventually it may just not be until the overhaul.

[Boersgard]

I am for IFF removal if the Smartgun gets actual damage

One of my earlier suggestions in the thread was using the target lock feature (That presently doesn't do anything) for IFF damage application, but it might be too clunky to use effectively, and in my experience aliens get out of visual range too fast for it to work reliably in the first place. Might be workable if the target lock stayed until the xeno got, say, 12-16 tiles away instead of 8, and breaking LOS breaks the lock as well.

[Boersgard]

I am for IFF removal if the Smartgun gets actual damage

I wouldn't necessarily be against this, but "actual damage" in this scenario needs to be edging towards 56D tier, and not M41 tier.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Probably unbalanced, but here is an idea.

Combine all of these together or only take one or a few of them. Here are some neato suggestions for Smartguns.
Enhanced Visors - You get 2 extra tiles of vision range, to better spot enemies with your enhanced gun and shoot at them, much better at suppressing fire.
Less Damage Fall-off/Accuracy Buff - Better able to hang out and reliably shoot at Xenos. For being someone who is supposed to be behind marines the Accuracy sucks more than it should.
AP Rounds - Mature T3s are effectively immune to smartguns at the moment and that's just silly. Giving it AP would effectively make it decent against every Xeno without just upping damage and annihilating everything.

[awan]

Ok, I have time left over and I think I can do this medium-sized project.
Now here is what I want to do/change.

• 1. While it would keep the powerpack, it would also have standard ammunition. The powerpack would control subsystems of the smartgun: Recoil, IFF, Infrared Targeting, etc.
• 2. The gunner would spawn with the standard smartgun gear, three drum mags of 500 rounds each, and a special gunner's holster that holds 2 smartgun drums, an M4A3, and an M4A3 magazine.
• 3. Their armor will be extended to their arms

Now for the subsystems.

• Recoil Dampening:
  When active, the smartgun has no recoil When inactive, the smartgun has a high recoil with screen shake. (Its a 40 pound gun.)
• IFF Targeting:
  When active, the smartgun bypasses friendlies. When inactive, the smartgun has no IFF and everyone can be targeted.
• Infrared Targeting:
  When active, the headset gives the player full screen infrared and not recolored mesons. When inactive, the gunner will have to rely on their shoulder light.
• Obstacle Targeting:
  When active, you will not hit cades or other things you can shoot over/past. (Toppled tables, window frames etc)
• Motion Sensor:
  It would be a mode on the equipment and ofc we all know what it does.
• Autofire mode (very taxing when firing.)
  This speaks for itself. And it is one that was suggested but I am not fully sold on.
• Weight Support
  Without it you get the normal slowdown a SG gets. With it active you do not get a slowdown from armor and less wielding the weapon.

Now the more systems you have active the quicker you drain.
The idea is that you pick your systems to follow your style. Systems not being actively used do not drain power.
Example: You will lose power from losing weight support on. You won't lose power from iff if you are not firing.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

snip

Can you switch on the go or is this something you choose while in prep and leave it as is? And how can someone refill a powerpack's battery ?

Overall, the idea seems nice as hell, but will probably take a while until it's here.

[awan]

I will try to make a nice nanoui to be able to swap systems.

I am not sure yet if you refill it with power cells, or have to use chargers or something and swap it out.

[Gnorse]

That sounds like exactly what we've been looking for. Toss in a subsystem to negate the damage falloff and I'd say it's set.

[awan]

For the reload.

I think I will put wall mounted recharge stations there on both DS.
It won't instantly recharge instead you need to swap it out or just need to ask a marine to bring you one.
(I might make it so a PO or SG is needed to take it out to prevent just random people taking it.)
If you convince a pfc to carry your spare you will have it.
Maybe ill make it possible to quickly recharge it with a power cell as well but have that be only a partial solution or be imperfect.

[Vampmare]

I don't like the autofire mode, its sounds too cheesy. It will either be really good or never used.

This rest is good stuff, with macros or a nice UI that switches between them, it could be really fun.

How long do you want a mode to be active? like how much juice is he getting?

[awan]

I don't like the autofire mode, its sounds too cheesy. It will either be really good or never used.

This rest is good stuff, with macros or a nice UI that switches between them, it could be really fun.

How long do you want a mode to be active? like how much juice is he getting?

If you run what an SG has now 60-90 minutes. (Depends on how much you fight and how good you are at managing your systems.)
The idea is that you pick your system for the situation.
You never needed weight support in the past but now you have the option to use it.
If you fight in a well lit area why use infra red?
Without cades/window frames and such there is no reason to use the system to avoid those.
If you just put it all on I would say 10 maybe 15 minutes. (To prevent SG's on the Almayer camping a powerpack resupply.)

It is designed you try to run 2-4 systems depending on the situation.
With 2 being low drain 4 being high drain but sustainable.