There needs to be actual punishments for disobeying orders.

[CABAL]

Going with "Cluwne" idea: Small drones that have firepower of pistol. All you can do is shoot and talk with other drones, but you have to obey all orders, or it's OOC issue. Good way to show them that obeying orders is fun. I would like also those drones available for dead marines who can't be deffibed.
Cool, minor "buff", solution and nice thing for dead.

But don't make it that you just need to be marked as Insub. I was marked many times when I tried to retreat instead of push without arm, or leg.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I think there's talk about buffs and debuffs if you're not near the squad leader.

[RobBrown4PM]

IIRC, buffs and debuffs are going to be added in the near future.

[Mann handle]

Just going to point out. I could play SL and have my squad follow me around until the XO decides he wants the squad to die in a shitty plan while I'm telling him we're being pushed and flanked. I've been demoted and marked for insub, my spec who takes over points the exact same shit out and gets marked insub as well as the command shifts around. All because someone in command wants us to die. What would the people saying there should be a clwne role or a block on squad roles if the following happened and they found themselves blocked due to people not wanting to follow suicidal orders?

Still my opinion is IC issue. MPs can't do shit and will normally find themselves shot if they tried arresting people in the field. That or a player report because xenos killed a tazed muhrine because the MP didn't see them coming.

[Enigmachine]

Just going to point out. I could play SL and have my squad follow me around until the XO decides he wants the squad to die in a shitty plan while I'm telling him we're being pushed and flanked. I've been demoted and marked for insub, my spec who takes over points the exact same shit out and gets marked insub as well as the command shifts around. All because someone in command wants us to die. What would the people saying there should be a clwne role or a block on squad roles if the following happened and they found themselves blocked due to people not wanting to follow suicidal orders?

Still my opinion is IC issue. MPs can't do shit and will normally find themselves shot if they tried arresting people in the field. That or a player report because xenos killed a tazed muhrine because the MP didn't see them coming.

You actually didn't follow that up with anything.

Player report them for griefing, since you seem convinced that they are being malicious in the complained about cases rather than simply incompetent or uninformed.

And don't twist my PVT suggestion like it's some kind of bigotry or injustice. In case it wasn't clear, if such was ever implemented it would have to be reserved as a punishment for OOC violations. Griefing, round-start, IE, etc. Shit that's OOC but MP's often get bothered to deal with anyway.

Staff has already said that SL compliance is OOC'ly mandatory anyway.

Also, that last remark has me determined to go Fett on your asses next time I'm CMP. I figure that if I've got the manpower, a 3-man team with att'ed 221's, a bean-bag shotty, and a roller bed should be enough to go bag'n tag any single trouble-source quickly and safely. Anywhere in a 'secure area' really.

[kastion]

You actually didn't follow that up with anything.

Player report them for griefing, since you seem convinced that they are being malicious in the complained about cases rather than simply incompetent or uninformed.

And don't twist my PVT suggestion like it's some kind of bigotry or injustice. In case it wasn't clear, if such was ever implemented it would have to be reserved as a punishment for OOC violations. Griefing, round-start, IE, etc. Shit that's OOC but MP's often get bothered to deal with anyway.

Staff has already said that SL compliance is OOC'ly mandatory anyway.

Also, that last remark has me determined to go Fett on your asses next time I'm CMP. I figure that if I've got the manpower, a 3-man team with att'ed 221's, a bean-bag shotty, and a roller bed should be enough to go bag'n tag any single trouble-source quickly and safely. Anywhere in a 'secure area' really.

Dead or alive, you are coming with me.

Im a xeno main but this thread makes me want to learn marine laws and mp so I can go hunt marines like judge dredd and fuck them up when I fail my xeno roll.

[Enigmachine]

Dead or alive, you are coming with me.

Im a xeno main but this thread makes me want to learn marine laws and mp so I can go hunt marines like judge dredd and fuck them up when I fail my xeno roll.

I'm not very enthusiastic about you being in the department with me, then.

[Mann handle]

You actually didn't follow that up with anything.

Player report them for griefing, since you seem convinced that they are being malicious in the complained about cases rather than simply incompetent or uninformed.

And don't twist my PVT suggestion like it's some kind of bigotry or injustice. In case it wasn't clear, if such was ever implemented it would have to be reserved as a punishment for OOC violations. Griefing, round-start, IE, etc. Shit that's OOC but MP's often get bothered to deal with anyway.

Staff has already said that SL compliance is OOC'ly mandatory anyway.

Also, that last remark has me determined to go Fett on your asses next time I'm CMP. I figure that if I've got the manpower, a 3-man team with att'ed 221's, a bean-bag shotty, and a roller bed should be enough to go bag'n tag any single trouble-source quickly and safely. Anywhere in a 'secure area' really.

What am I supposed to follow it up with, an idea? I have none related to the topic outside of the buff/debuff that was discussed by other users. Even that I don't agree with because all that would do is lower flexibility within a squad that's working together or with other marines. The only real thing that would punish completely insubordinate marines is death in the hands of a xeno and a squad that would be unwilling to save them, that's provided that anyone could actually find them.
I've always been a trial by fire kind of person,if you can't get people to follow you as an SL then something is wrong. If your squad is not following command's orders clearly then again, something is wrong. Problem is not many people inquire as to what is wrong, is it a supply problem? are marines getting flanked? does the groundside team not have confidence that they can actually advance? Most of the command's role is to supervise and provide support, not micro manage every marine as they wish. The squad lead gets his orders and it's down to them on how they carry it out. Both can fail leadership tests as the situation turns into chaos, some would argue that's normal and panic sets in which would scatter men. Others would argue that marines should technically be able to follow orders 100% of the time and if they don't it's insub. To sum it up, the entire thing is an IC issue and asking for OOC oversight is in my mind a very taxing task, as staff would have to value every order given to a situation. Not to mention some parts of command are incompetent or playing incompetently for the sake of RP. All of which leads to a very opinionated set of decisions with bias tossed around.
As for twisting your suggestion, my scenario I described actually happened. I was left in the open with mach 1 runners picking at my squad, XO wants us to hold lambda entrance in prep for a breach and to build defences around the area. We lacked an engineer and supplies while getting picked at bit by bit. I ordered the men to get to the Bar so we can at least force the runners into a smaller area to fight them off while the XO wanted a more aggressive tactic what would have lead us to be surrounded. I was demoted and marked insub while my spec I think was also marked insub as well for pointing out how shit the XO was, all while my squad was getting slapped around in a game of who can shoot the supersonic ducks. That's me as an SL refusing orders and acting non compliantly with command due to a shit order. Would I report it? no because it's an IC issue and I know it would be ruled as such. Would an admin boink me for it? no again IC issue.
For your last remark, try it. I doubt you'll be chasing me but MPs are despised by marines, attempting to arrest someone who the squad values would end up facing resistance quickly. Don't cry when some squaddie decides he'd risk a murder charge, and a possible boink, when he values a medic over an MP. It gets, worse OOC wise, if you land planetside. You then place yourself into a situation where you can risk a few more player reports due to arguments over zones of control. A xeno push while you're arresting someone in FOB could lead to a lump of boiler gas landing and killing the marine you stunned, who will then blame you for the death and argue as such, even more so if he could not be recovered and the arrest was for telling an officer to bugger off when said officer wanted a push. All of this relates to groundside of course and one last thing. The chances are that any marine you are chasing will most likely die at the hand of a xeno or be arrested once they are forced to evacuate. At that point they would most likely be pardoned due to lack of numbers or an alamo steaming towards the ship.
Again, IC / OOC balance is designed to maintain the workload of staff and to offer as much freedom in RP form. Will we go back to the days where you get boinked for referring to a runner as a alien / xeno instead of calling it a dog / dragon again? Lots of OOC limitations are never popular and if a marine wants to act like a fuck then he should die like a fuck, instead of attempting to curb behavior on the whole just for the sake of said fuck.

[OatzAndHoes]

First step at getting decent at leading is:

Don't blame others for your inability to lead.

There's a reason why people won't follow an SL/CO/SO/XO/Whatever around.

A good, well-known SL will always get followed around even by the Ungaiest of PFCs.

This is not really true. I've been playing for a long ass time and I'm not going to lie there have been moments where I've only had an hour to play the game so I've picked PFC and just went right to the frontlines regardless of what the SL has said. This is a game, not real life. Sometimes people just want to have fun a certain way and nothing you say will stop that. The key is incentivizing marines to behave how you want most of the time. You've got to accept that players will sometimes just not want to listen and that is alright. As long as most of the squad is working together a lost PFC or two won't ruin the round.

[Dorkkeli]

I C. I S S U E.

[spookydonut]

I C. I S S U E.