CO Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue, No Briefing for Two squads, and Possible Meta Rush.

[VortexGaming]

Your Byond Key: VortexGaming

Your Character Name: Alicia

Accused Byond Key(if known): Vitoras

Character Name: Byrce 'tyrant' Logue

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Around 11:50-12:25 Eastern

What rule(s) were broken: Rule 6. No Metagaming or Metacommunication

Description of the incident: CO deployed Delta and Charlie at 12:15 to which the round was later won at around 12:35. Delta and Charlie never got a proper briefing.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): https://gyazo.com/a9058e6ca91a901d4edd1b1aac1e1d70

How you would punish the accused: I think a warning would be fine, As there is a new CO rework coming. The player is a good player and this is to my knowledge the first time such a thing has happened. The only reason im player reporting is because alot of player's had a problem with this and more accurate rulings than what we already have on what is technically "Meta rushing"

[MattAtlas]

The round was actually won at 12:30 for what it's worth.

[Vitoras]

Oh boy, I wasn't expecting such things. First of all, I gave orders to both squads TWICE: first time is an announcement and second is mini-briefing on Alamo and Normandy. Secondary, the early deployment was always a thing since devs moved time for ships to launch from 12:25 to 12:15. Third thing is that it wasn't ordered by me to PUSH in Eta(As I know xenos melted podlocks, so even Delta wasn't that guilty).

[ImHereToHelp]

Is the problem in this case that of an early drop or the amount of marines?

[Avalanchee]

As a Bravo PFC, I can confirm that he made a mini-brief command announcement.
Also yes, devs allowed us to launch at 12:15, so why shouldn't we do it?

He also deployed ONLY delta as a scout/combat squad, Charlie was FOB and
YES podlocks were melted
Delta just left engineering and started chasing the dumb podlock xenos to the hive.

[VortexGaming]

As a Bravo PFC, I can confirm that he made a mini-brief command announcement.
Also yes, devs allowed us to launch at 12:15, so why shouldn't we do it?

He also deployed ONLY delta as a scout/combat squad, Charlie was FOB and
YES podlocks were melted
Delta just left engineering and started chasing the dumb podlock xenos to the hive.

I believe staff ruled before that you need to have a physical briefing instead of just a command announcement. And an argument that we can launch at 12:15 was made and honestly, I think that update should be reverted to further prevent things like this from happening as now all maps don't really have a definite way to prevent straight up rushing to the hive. This encourage's marines to just fight the Xeno's before they can properly mature letting the round end at 12:30. I honestly only made this to really shed some light on the current rules in place about Briefings and such.

[Emeraldblood]

I'll probably resolve this later tonight. We're not looking for opinions on the matter but if you have anything to add about what/why this happened, you're free to add that.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Logs:

Command Annoucement:

► Show Spoiler

[10:46:51]SAY: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Morning, marines. Grab everything you need and be prepared for a briefing in 12:20.
Delta-you should be on Normandy - in 12:15.
Charlie-you should be on Alamo in 12:15.
Delta and Charlie have top priority in Requisitions.

Planning:

► Show Spoiler

[10:52:33]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Charlie, you should be on Normandy at 12:15 mark.

[10:53:13]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Yes, its Alamo.

[10:54:03]SAY: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Delta-deploy via Normandy in 12:15 and fix power.
Charlie-deploy via Alamo and fix tcomms.
-CDR Bryce Logue. - Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue (Commander)

[10:55:19]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Charlie SL, move to Alamo.
[10:55:43]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : You have 2 minutes.
[10:56:04]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Well, your objective is to fix power.
[10:56:19]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : After that you must move to Eta and set up a small outpost there.

[10:56:58]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : PO, Normandy is departing in 12:15.
[10:57:12]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : SL, move your ass to Alamo.
[10:57:17]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Alamo, hold.
[10:57:44]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : I will mark you for insubordination, reallly.
[10:57:48]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : So..
[10:57:55]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Fix tcomms and begin to set up FOB.
[10:58:03]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Alamo, get off.
[10:58:08]SAY: Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue/Vitoras : Launch.

Moderator PM to CO

► Show Spoiler

[11:07:18]ADMIN: PM: Sargash/(Lillian Cook)->Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue): Hey, I've a few questions. Could you me what orders, and objectives you decided to send Delta and Charlie down with?
[11:08:01]ADMIN: PM: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue)->Sargash/(Lillian Cook): Charlie-fix tcomms and begin to construct a FOB. Delta-fix power and build a small outpost near Eta.
[11:08:26]ADMIN: PM: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue)->Sargash/(Lillian Cook): Doors were already melted by xenos, as I know.
[11:08:42]ADMIN: PM: Sargash/(Lillian Cook)->Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue): I got people saying you sent them in with no orders at all. Also how would you know about doors being melted?
[11:09:06]ADMIN: PM: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue)->Sargash/(Lillian Cook): One Delta marine told that Eta podlocks are opened.
[11:09:20]ADMIN: PM: Sargash/(Lillian Cook)->Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue): Before deployment, not after.
[11:09:30]ADMIN: PM: Sargash/(Lillian Cook)->Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue): And it what form did you inform the marines?
[11:10:16]ADMIN: PM: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue)->Sargash/(Lillian Cook): I gave orders to Charlie and Delta via announcement and on Alamo and Normandy by myself
[11:10:26]ADMIN: PM: Vitoras/(Bryce 'Tyrant' Logue)->Sargash/(Lillian Cook): I still cant understand a problem though.

[Clutch]

I was playing as a Delta PFC that round and Bryce said charlie on Comms and Delta on power at 12:15 Delta was briefed plentifull on the DS before dropping, the round ended soon due to the xenos just being really really bad.

Bryce hasnt done anything that other CO's havent done at this point. Alot of CO's early drop 1/2 squads and I havent seen a report yet.

[kastion]

I was one of the aliens that got rushed and crushed. Delta did not meta rush some dumbass alien melted the padlocks in eta and in lambda. I went to go melt some stuff in engineering and they saw me, didn't even fully chase me but saw me run south. They then went looking through eta and found no one then naturally moved through the caves towards lambda. No meta rush. Just a dumbass melting padlocks.

[Arbs]

I was a part of this round as an SO in the CIC and I saw this whole thing happen from an operational point of view. Im not sure what vortex has been seeing, but here it is.

I will start off by saying that deployments at 1215 or 1220 used to be a common thing in the past. I can even find commander/xo guides that mention it even.

So in short there is nothing wrong with an early deployment. It simply gives you more time to set up defenses.

In no moment did this commander directly point the squads towards the hive or urge them to rush in.

Most of the work was simply done by delta who was in engineering duty, made contct with a xeno and found the research podlocks melted. They went in to take a look at research, made contact with a warrior and followed it down the caves.

Reinforcements were only called when delta was already progressing.


In short there is nothing wrong with the early deployment it just gives you more time to set up things like power and the FOB. The CO never urged anyone to rush down into the hive or caves. As a matter of fact he even advised Delta to not stray off too far into them.

The xenos melted the podlocks and made contact way too early by themselves. They simply handicapped themselves and barely put up any resistance. Besides with the new fast evolution at round start, the Hive already had T3s and multiple T2s. They simply did horribly.

[VortexGaming]

Im not sure what vortex has been seeing

The main thing I saw was the CO deploying two squads without a proper briefing, I only stated possible meta rushing as in the evidence I’ve shown the CO tells delta to go within ETA labs. People seem to be pointing out the meta rushing part and I think that’s clear that he didn’t really do it. But now the main part about him deploying both squads without a proper briefing in the briefing room.

[Arbs]

I understand that It certainly is frowned upon to send a squad or two earlier, but is briefing really mandatory (even rule wise?) on the first place? I've even seen cases of marines being briefed over the Announcement Console in the past as well.

But then again I have a note on a similar case where I sent alpha squad earlier than others to set up T-Comms and the FOB before deploying the main force and I was reached in-game for it, and when I had done that in other cases before that I had never been reached about it. So I still don't have a clear idea of what is considered fine or not by the staff at this point. There's been a lack of consistency in these kind of decisions.

Any clarification on that would be appreciated. If that's your point for this player report.

[VortexGaming]

I understand that It certainly is frowned upon to send a squad or two earlier, but is briefing really mandatory (even rule wise?) on the first place? I've even seen cases of marines being briefed over the Announcement Console in the past as well.

But then again I have a note on a similar case where I sent alpha squad earlier than others to set up T-Comms and the FOB before deploying the main force and I was reached in-game for it, and when I had done that in other cases before that I had never been reached about it. So I still don't have a clear idea of what is considered fine or not by the staff at this point. There's been a lack of consistency in these kind of decisions.

Any clarification on that would be appreciated. If that's your point for this player report.

That parts a real grey area, people have been warned not give announcement briefing's and such and alot of it isnt really clear or specified pretty much anywhere. Though this was mostly during Apop day's as people have said. The main 2 points of this report was because in game alot of people had issue's with what had happened, and I wanted a bit more clarification in this kind of stuff (which I assume the CO rework WILL provide) its just that I wouldnt want this incident to go by unreported. As said in the report Vitoras is a good guy and im not doing any of this because I dislike him or anything. I just want more clarifications on this kinda stuff as it was punished before in the past.

[MattAtlas]

This happened again on prison. Same CO.

Round was essentially over at 1230 with a single hivelord remaining.

I'm not gonna lie, even if it's allowed, the round ending at 1230 is actual dogshit.

[forest2001]

I have played a half dozen rounds where this has happened with Logue, Charlie and Delta being given Req Priority and being deployed at 12:15 with explicit orders not to be at the briefing which takes place at the same time. I cannot presently provide screenshots nor other evidence but my word.

I do not find the tactics of this to be detrimental directly, but it is not particularly nice for the Xenos or other players, the main part of the round doesn't even occur as the Xenos do not get the chance to develop and work out their coordination.

[Urytion]

Played in another round with Bryce, similar sort of setup. Super early 12:15 deployment, game over by 12:30. Not the round in question, so delete if rule 2, but I think it helps.

We were given a full briefing on the shuttle. Literally the only difference between a normal briefing and this one was venue. Given in person, with a megaphone, in sight of everyone. Everyone followed their orders, which weren't any more meta than every other command order we get, and Bravo stumbled across all the T3s and killed them by about 12:20, then game over 12:30 marine major oorah 0% losses.

I don't necessarily approve of these super early rushes and would change that, but from what I saw he did nothing wrong. There was no meta, and CO guidelines were followed.

[Emeraldblood]

Right, so I've been mulling over this for a few days. We've had repeat problems with Vitoras for things like meta-rush, along with other problems, and given we're cracking down on CO, Vitoras will have his CO removed for the time being. It should be noted that Vitoras was given warnings prior to this event. He's free to ask for it to be reinstated following the new whitelist reinstatement rules.

Regarding Meta-rush, we're going to be working on updating maps like Big Red to avoid meta rushes but for the time being, Commanders shouldn't send be sending dual-squad early deployments. One squad is still fine but two squads have a higher chance to cause problems. It should be noted that this isn't illegal to do, but doing so as CO, XO, SL, or whatever has a chance to net you into trouble if problems arise.

Resolved - CO whitelist removed