CMP - lowrp, not following protocol, staffing while ic

[svensis]

Your Byond Key: svensis

Your Character Name: sven svenson

Accused Byond Key(if known): no idea but apparently an admin

Character Name:

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): ‎Thursday, ‎November ‎15, ‎2018, ‏‎5:30:35 PM (GMT +2)

What rule(s) were broken: not following law as CMP and failing to rp as a CMP

Description of the incident:

The CMP let the prisoner/survivor get stabbed several times when he was restrained and buckled to the chair with medical injuries. I was a CL and I defended him so he doesn't die on me and I could have RP with him. The marines got mad and started fighting with me, and the CMP still didn't take action. I was shot and punched several times. and I was critical and a marine from another squad was dragging me to the medbay in the last clip you can see the CMP not following arrest protocol. ( Didn't give a verbal warning to him )

In short, CMP refused to take action against marines who were breaking the law. Then proceeded to fail to do arrest procedure.
I don't think first time your playing MP you should be playing as CMP.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
(Video of the CMP ignoring survivor getting stabbed, and afterwards me getting punched by marines, and in the end shows her not doing arrest procedure to stop a marine dragging wounded me.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k9ChdJbQsg
(Gif of me getting shot and the CMP not doing anything about it. (got up later and ignored the fact that they assaulted me and the survivor) )


I spoke to Sir Lordington about it and he said the CMP's game froze.
I spoke to some mentor and he said that the CMP was busy responding to ahelps (Then why were you playing a vital role if you're not gonna be ic)
This whole thing seems unprofessional (especially by someone from staff) to me when you also include the misspellings when I was actually taken to brig.

How you would punish the accused:
temp job ban and making the person read all the protocols and marine law.

[FGRSentinel]

Oh god, this round. I was Goddard Pearsall, as the records show I was PO on Alamo when this happened and the first two drops were... Interesting. There's a number of fairly large things that you left out of the story though, which I'll try to cover as best I can.

We dropped down, same as normal after a joke with the Normandy pilot about how it was probably going to be hell down at the LZ, which, surprisingly, was true. Shortly after landing, the marines file out and I start hearing gunfire but no sounds of aliens, so I decide to report it (I think I did) and pop my head out to see. Turns out, the three survivors entrenched just southeast of LZ1 on Prison and started firing on the Marines the moment they came out, going so far as to use incendiary grenades on the Marines. You notice me report multiple injured in the video: at least 4-6 were seriously hurt in the initial incident while I went up with the more seriously injured and to pick up the CMP and CL, who both decided to drop for their own reasons (the CMP to ensure the marines followed protocol and revive the downed colonists for brigging and the CL for... some reason they never specified). The Marines had permakilled two of the survivors and it was the CMP who demanded they cuff and revive the third to be brigged, which they only did because the CMP went down to retrieve them personally. At this point, I land and a number of dead or wounded Marines are loaded, with a Charlie medic eventually attacking and seriously injuring the prisoner out of anger since it was believed they were a CLF spy. At this point, from what I recall hearing from the CMP or someone else, you decided to pull your gun and open fire on the Alamo in retaliation. I didn't actually see the fire incident, but when I stepped out both you and the CMP were on the ground in pretty bad shape while I had a dead medic, a dead/critical prisoner, and what I thought were a paincritted CMP and CL. I even checked the Medic after the CMP said you attacked them and confirmed that they were dead. At this point, you were guilty of murder and you actually show yourself trying to flee the CMP while shooting Marines in your video at 0:59, making you both non-compliant and a dangerous suspect.

To quote the related part of Marine Law:
"During emergencies such as mutinies and boardings or against suspects who have used a lethal weapon against law enforcement or other personnel, the Chief MP or acting Commander may authorize the use of lethal force.

1. Engage the suspect using lethal force until they are incapacitated - not dead.
2. Secure the suspect and their weapons and have them given medical aid if possible.
3. Bring the suspect to the brig, inform them of their charge and process them."

I can't actually say if you were treated or not, but I feel the need to state for the record that from what I saw after the gunfight, it looked like you were a threat to the ship. I think I heard you talking after that, but my memory on that specific part is, sadly, a bit fuzzy. I know the CMP said they'd arrest the Charlie Medic for the incident, but they also informed the CO, when asked where their MPs were "your only MP is me and I'm bleeding out on Alamo." I think the medic was treated fairly quickly and managed to quietly slip down to the station while the CMP was occupied.

[freemysoul]

Right, let me explain this to you, Yes my game froze for about 2 minutes. After we had landed if you would read chat, you would see I had ordered both you and Ellie to the brig, then to the ground. Ellie, who ran off toward medical in a crowd of people. You, on the other hand, ran off to the south. After I had cuffed you, another marine grabbed you and ran off with you while you scream shoot the CMP, I caught up with you, stunned both of you, tried cuffing them and ended up being shot multiple times.

After I had taken the original prisoner and you to the brig and got patched myself since I just had both my left hand and chest broken, I proceeded to explain to you that you were under arrest for assault with a deadly weapon and sedition, Which at maximum punishment is Execution, however I decided was best for the players involved to be permanently confined until the end of the round.

I was never able to get Ellie nor Kain Woodsman as I was still dealing with issues in the brig and as well being the only MP on at the time.

You were the bigger threat at the time, you shot at and harmed a marine with a pistol, you then proceeded to verbally insight violence on me when I was arresting you.

Nowhere in staff protocol does it state a member of the moderation team cannot answer adminhelps when ingame.

[svensis]

Oh god, this round. I was Goddard Pearsall, as the records show I was PO on Alamo when this happened and the first two drops were... Interesting. There's a number of fairly large things that you left out of the story though, which I'll try to cover as best I can.

We dropped down, same as normal after a joke with the Normandy pilot about how it was probably going to be hell down at the LZ, which, surprisingly, was true. Shortly after landing, the marines file out and I start hearing gunfire but no sounds of aliens, so I decide to report it (I think I did) and pop my head out to see. Turns out, the three survivors entrenched just southeast of LZ1 on Prison and started firing on the Marines the moment they came out, going so far as to use incendiary grenades on the Marines. You notice me report multiple injured in the video: at least 4-6 were seriously hurt in the initial incident while I went up with the more seriously injured and to pick up the CMP and CL, who both decided to drop for their own reasons (the CMP to ensure the marines followed protocol and revive the downed colonists for brigging and the CL for... some reason they never specified). The Marines had permakilled two of the survivors and it was the CMP who demanded they cuff and revive the third to be brigged, which they only did because the CMP went down to retrieve them personally. At this point, I land and a number of dead or wounded Marines are loaded, with a Charlie medic eventually attacking and seriously injuring the prisoner out of anger since it was believed they were a CLF spy. At this point, from what I recall hearing from the CMP or someone else, you decided to pull your gun and open fire on the Alamo in retaliation. I didn't actually see the fire incident, but when I stepped out both you and the CMP were on the ground in pretty bad shape while I had a dead medic, a dead/critical prisoner, and what I thought were a paincritted CMP and CL. I even checked the Medic after the CMP said you attacked them and confirmed that they were dead. At this point, you were guilty of murder and you actually show yourself trying to flee the CMP in your video at 0:59, making you both non-compliant and a dangerous suspect.

To quote the related part of Marine Law:
"During emergencies such as mutinies and boardings or against suspects who have used a lethal weapon against law enforcement or other personnel, the Chief MP or acting Commander may authorize the use of lethal force.

1. Engage the suspect using lethal force until they are incapacitated - not dead.
2. Secure the suspect and their weapons and have them given medical aid if possible.
3. Bring the suspect to the brig, inform them of their charge and process them."

I can't actually say if you were treated or not, but I feel the need to state for the record that from what I saw after the gunfight, it looked like you were a threat to the ship. I think I heard you talking after that, but my memory on that specific part is, sadly, a bit fuzzy. I know the CMP said they'd arrest the Charlie Medic for the incident, but they also informed the CO, when asked where their MPs were "your only MP is me and I'm bleeding out on Alamo." I think the medic was treated fairly quickly and managed to quietly slip down to the station while the CMP was occupied.

I am talking about the cuffed and buckled wounded survivor that is seen in the clip getting stabbed 3-4 times and the CMP isn't doing anything.
I crit and I was making my way to the medbay and then I got pulled by some marine. I was not running nor ressisting arrest, if I would've been asked to stop. I would've stopped same for the marine.

[svensis]

Right, let me explain this to you, Yes my game froze for about 2 minutes. After we had landed if you would read chat, you would see I had ordered both you and Ellie to the brig, then to the ground. Ellie, who ran off toward medical in a crowd of people. You, on the other hand, ran off to the south. After I had cuffed you, another marine grabbed you and ran off with you while you scream shoot the CMP, I caught up with you, stunned both of you, tried cuffing them and ended up being shot multiple times.

After I had taken the original prisoner and you to the brig and got patched myself since I just had both my left hand and chest broken, I proceeded to explain to you that you were under arrest for assault with a deadly weapon and sedition, Which at maximum punishment is Execution, however I decided was best for the players involved to be permanently confined until the end of the round.

I was never able to get Ellie nor Kain Woodsman as I was still dealing with issues in the brig and as well being the only MP on at the time.

You were the bigger threat at the time, you shot at and harmed a marine with a pistol, you then proceeded to verbally insight violence on me when I was arresting you.

Nowhere in staff protocol does it state a member of the moderation team cannot answer adminhelps when ingame.

You didnt pay attention to ingame and let me get shot and the survivor stabbed.
You didnt verbally warn us and proceeded to arrest us by breaking the protocol.
You made it dangerous and could've stopped the situation easily on the alamo by handcuffing everyone who was in the situation.

[svensis]

I was never able to get Ellie nor Kain Woodsman

Those two clips are several minutes apart, You should've handcuffed them aswell instead of letting me get punched and shot at.
Since we are were flying in the alamo and there was nowhere to escape to.

[freemysoul]

Oh boy: https://youtu.be/-k9ChdJbQsg?t=40 Read the chat.

[svensis]

Oh boy: https://youtu.be/-k9ChdJbQsg?t=40 Read the chat.

I was assaulted several times and you refused to take action against the marine punching me.

[svensis]

After I had cuffed you, another marine grabbed you and ran off with you while you scream shoot the CMP, I caught up with you, stunned both of you, tried cuffing them and ended up being shot multiple times.



You were the bigger threat at the time, you shot at and harmed a marine with a pistol, you then proceeded to verbally insight violence on me when I was arresting you.

First statment, lies. Marine took me before you handcuffed me and you did not give any verbal warnings to him to stop slowly dragging me to get medical attention. ( I have video evidence )







You only handcuffed me when you stunned after he was dragging me away.
Please, don't lie.



I drropped the pistol next to the alamo cause someone had shot me or punched me in the hand too much. (I was unarmed)

[freemysoul]

You were literally running from the scene of a crime after you SHOT a marine with a lethal weapon, I have no idea if you had more weapons, Therefore you are STILL a dangerous suspect in a lethal fire exchange. You do not become non dangerous suspect after dropping a gun and running. If you had done this in real life you would have been shot.

[svensis]

You were literally running from the scene of a crime after you SHOT a marine with a lethal weapon, I have no idea if you had more weapons, Therefore you are STILL a dangerous suspect in a lethal fire exchange. You do not become non dangerous suspect after dropping a gun and running. If you had done this in real life you would have been shot.

But you just said I was handcuffed and the marine was dragging me?
How would I be a threat then? Or do you admit that you made that up?

I was stammering and retreating to medbay until i dropped down and got dragged by some marine who you stunsticked without a valid reason.

[FGRSentinel]

I am talking about the cuffed and buckled wounded survivor that is seen in the clip getting stabbed 3-4 times and the CMP isn't doing anything.
I crit and I was making my way to the medbay and then I got pulled by some marine. I was not running nor ressisting arrest, if I would've been asked to stop. I would've stopped same for the marine.

I'm aware of that, but as I pointed out, from what I heard before I launched and the situation I was looking at, it seemed like, rather than protesting and demanding the Marine that shot and killed a confirmed hostile in front of the CMP be arrested immediately, you pulled a gun and opened fire on them. I know for a fact you didn't say anything during the incident once the prisoner was apparently critically injured since I had the microphones set up on the Alamo. Your own video also shows you shuffling the medic after the fact while they're trying to revive someone and opening fire on a Marine, shooting them directly in the head, before running off the Alamo onto Almayer. Personally, I'm more interested in what's not shown by the video than what is though: if what I heard is incorrect or if you actually did open fire on a Marine in full view of the CMP. The fact that you glaze over the fact that you shot someone before getting off the Almayer (which caused a number of Marines to open fire and make the entire incident worse) is a bit annoying. If my memory's correct, you and the three survivors were responsible for something like a third to half the Marine injuries/casualties for that round, which I feel needs to be put on the record as well. I'm estimating this because Normandy's pilot said they made four Medivac runs while almost nobody went up on Alamo after the second drop, so at most 8-12 Marines were injured by the xenos while at least 6-8 were injured by the Survivors and then you shot at least two Marines yourself.

In this case, as I said, I have to back the CMP here on this: you were an active threat to the ship and decided to throw your hat in with a confirmed hostile that helped basically torch a good chunk of the ground force.

[svensis]

I'm aware of that, but as I pointed out, from what I heard before I launched and the situation I was looking at, it seemed like, rather than protesting and demanding the Marine that shot and killed a confirmed hostile in front of the CMP be arrested immediately, you pulled a gun and opened fire on them. I know for a fact you didn't say anything during the incident once the prisoner was apparently critically injured since I had the microphones set up on the Alamo. Your own video also shows you shuffling the medic after the fact while they're trying to revive someone and opening fire on a Marine, shooting them directly in the head, before running off the Alamo onto Almayer. Personally, I'm more interested in what's not shown by the video than what is though: if what I heard is incorrect or if you actually did open fire on a Marine in full view of the CMP. The fact that you glaze over the fact that you shot someone before getting off the Almayer (which caused a number of Marines to open fire and make the entire incident worse) is a bit annoying. If my memory's correct, you and the three survivors were responsible for something like a third to half the Marine injuries/casualties for that round, which I feel needs to be put on the record as well. I'm estimating this because Normandy's pilot said they made four Medivac runs while almost nobody went up on Alamo after the second drop, so at most 8-12 Marines were injured by the xenos while at least 6-8 were injured by the Survivors and then you shot at least two Marines yourself.

In this case, as I said, I have to back the CMP here on this: you were an active threat to the ship and decided to throw your hat in with a confirmed hostile that helped basically torch a good chunk of the ground force.

Lets wait for the logs, I asked for the CMP to interviene with the punching/stabbing.
I played as CL so I don't see why I couldn't extort the survivor out of there and figure out what the hell happened down there.
I also have shown the full length video to Sir Lordington through discord screenshare.

[Jerkface00]

I've read only the original post's complaint and the follow up posts by the original poster.
I've looked at the evidence he's provided.

I've formulated the opinion that this is a shit-report on it's face and the rest of the posts below it are moot.

The complainant contributed to and escalated a situation and appears to be simply unhappy that it didn't go the way they wished it to go as an IC issue. The complaint raises non-issues and provided evidence which contradicts their position on claims and facts that would otherwise be questionable and would potentially require log dives and give this complaint merit.

Let's look at the full complaint on it's face and break it down part-by-part.

The CMP let the prisoner/survivor get stabbed several times when he was restrained and buckled to the chair with medical injuries. I was a CL and I defended him so he doesn't die on me and I could have RP with him. The marines got mad and started fighting with me, and the CMP still didn't take action. I was shot and punched several times. and I was critical and a marine from another squad was dragging me to the medbay in the last clip you can see the CMP not following arrest protocol. ( Didn't give a verbal warning to him )

In short, CMP refused to take action against marines who were breaking the law. Then proceeded to fail to do arrest procedure.
I don't think first time your playing MP you should be playing as CMP.

-------------
"The CMP let the prisoner/survivor get stabbed several times when he was restrained and buckled to the chair with medical injuries. "

My question here is "so what?". The CMP didn't refuse to act or ignore that their prisoner was attacked. The CMP clearly acts later in the provided clips trying to prevent injury to the same person and others. They simply failed in their objective - this is on it's face not an ooc issue that merits intervention. The general rule of thumb is this: People don't get in trouble simply for being bad at the job they are playing.

Marines don't get in trouble for the occasional FF.
Commanders don't get in trouble for orders that are suboptimal or which end up resulting in a loss for the marines.
Doctors don't get in trouble for not saving dying people.
CT's don't get in trouble for not optimizing their points on the best gear.
MP's don't get in trouble for failing to keep multiple prisoners safe from a mob when they're alone and surrounded.

"I was a CL and I defended him so he doesn't die on me and I could have RP with him."
"the marines got mad and started fighting with me, and the CMP still didn't take action. I was shot and punched several times."

These statements admit to the complainant adding to the chaos surrounding the situation, and includes that force in some manner was used going in two directions.

Again, no one is punished simply for being bad at their job. With chaos unfolding it is likely that anyone in the position of the CMP would be subject to significantly-less-then-perfect information as to who they need to stop first and why. Ultimately when two parties are in a fight, if you aren't actively aware of who a clear bad-guy is then a judgment call must be made. That is what the MP's are called to do, and what the CMP appears to have done here. This lends credibility to any defence the CMP might raise (I still haven't actually read what other people have said on the side of the CMP at the time I'm typing this). These lines do not raise any meritorious issues for complaint against the CMP.

"...I was critical and a marine from another squad was dragging me to the medbay…"

This has no bearing on anything reflecting the actions or inactions of the CMP and is not relevant to the potential issues in this report in any way.

"in the last clip you can see the CMP not following arrest protocol."

I assume here the complainant is speaking about the instance where the CMP in the last clip is chasing the CL with a stun baton and then stuns him, then a marine drags the CL away only to then be stunned by the CMP.

Where a subject is non-compliant, has used lethal force, or is a 'dangerous suspect' as defined under marine law (which is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION OF THE CMP AT THE TIME) MP's are not required to do anything except attempt to subdue the subject by whatever means they have available. Relieving oneself of a firearm after the fact MAY reduce the maximum use of force an MP might be allowed to use to less-than-lethal means, however you'd still be under the 'resisting or running' aspect of marine law which also does not require MP's to order a person into compliance before attempting to stun them.

What this means is as soon as you fire a gun at someone or something, any procedural requirements that may otherwise force the MP's to speak to you in any way goes out the window. Whether they must stun, or may use lethal force is questionable depending on the facts of a situation. This however is not relevant to this instance as the CMP appears to have only used non-lethal means to subdue people.

The CL has clearly fired their weapon in the posted clips at some point at marine personnel, whether rightfully or otherwise and may be subject to the dangerous suspect clause of MP use of force. I'd include I'm of the opinion that intentionally shifting a medic while he is attempting to perform medical treatment on someone who appears to be flatlining is additionally enough of a reason for an MP to arrest someone without yelling at them first.

If you are referring to the marine dragging you away, the marine in question was clearly 'resisting or running' as the cmp was clearly attempting to detain the CL and does not require the CMP to do anymore then detain the person in question with non-lethal means. The CMP clearly used non-lethal means.

This portion of the complaint might require log diving to verify whether the CMP's perceptions have some basis in reality, however thanks to the video clips posted by the complainant it seems abundantly clear that the CMP acted reasonably and within the use of force set out in marine law in their attempt to detain the CL and the marine who attempted to aid their escape in the last clip.

The above statement does not raise a meritorious claim for complaint against the CMP as use of force was clearly within marine law requirements.

"In short, CMP refused to take action against marines who were breaking the law. Then proceeded to fail to do arrest procedure..."

In short, this claim, on the evidence provided by the complainant, appears to lack any merit upon which action must or should be taken against the CMP.

The issues raised which might have required log diving (a break of arrest procedure), have been shown by the complainant's video to be lacking in merit and action need not be taken against the CMP.

This is resolved. No action will be taken against Freemysoul.