MP Main discussion/qq'ing thread

[captainyankee]

...
Let us begin with a discussion on mutinies, my brothers and sisters, the floor is yours.

Here's a question that isn't answered in the rules as far as I know: When is a mutiny over?

One ending should be when the CO is dead, but then we usually have fighting spilling into multiple rooms, with marines, mps, and CIC staff fighting for their lives. When the CO dies, there's no announcement like the xenos receive upon the Queen's death. So inevitably, we have Mps and marines killing each-other until one side is dead, or the participants are in a position to take stock of the situation.

What about if the mutineers lose? Is it just the first group that is considered the core? What if more marines join in? There's no way to track any of it.

This raises a second question: Why do we always have to resort to lethal force? Mps are given non-lethal options, several of which have no real time besides a mutiny where using them would be appropriate. Instead, MPs take the beanbags out of their tac-shottys, and fill them with lethal rounds. What else can we expect though? Marines simply don't have access to non-lethal force, and when it is used before lethals, it's usually right up until a taser or gas grenade goes off. And why does lethal force always end up being as-lethal-as-possible? Targeting someone's head is shitty and it could be argued that deliberately doing it is breaking the rules, you know what you are doing*.

There's dozens of other issues and inconsistencies. If the XO wasn't part of the mutiny, but for some reason didn't die or otherwise participate in the defense of the CO, is that XO now in command? Is the original A-helper in command? Is the highest ranking, surviving officer in command?

Much of this rarely makes a difference, usually because a mutiny results in or is catalyzed by the marines losing the fight on the planet.

MP role... Where do I even start.
There's no antagonists on Almayer. I don't wanna arrest someone over minor crimes because I am not a cunt. There's literally nothing to do as MP. Others don't even want to RP with you because they have an actual job to do. You can't rp with MTs because MTs actually break law to do something fun and you can't break any laws. This job is shit.

This is also a problem. There's no antags. MPs are kind of designed to be a stopgap for low-level shittery to prevent staff from being overwhelmed with ahelps. But because MPs are IC, they can't acknowledge this fact, they have access to almost no investigative tools, they are random players with no necessary incentive to actually perform their job right. They are essentially security from regular SS13 stations, but they have 0% chance of actually arresting a danger to the ship in non-event rounds. The only time they are useful is mutinies, where they really just amplify the amount of damage to the ship/crew.



*Damage bleedover happens. Also forgetting to retarget the torso after doing medical work on someone can cause decaps.

[dauntasa]

This raises a second question: Why do we always have to resort to lethal force? Mps are given non-lethal options, several of which have no real time besides a mutiny where using them would be appropriate. Instead, MPs take the beanbags out of their tac-shottys, and fill them with lethal rounds. What else can we expect though? Marines simply don't have access to non-lethal force, and when it is used before lethals, it's usually right up until a taser or gas grenade goes off. And why does lethal force always end up being as-lethal-as-possible? Targeting someone's head is shitty and it could be argued that deliberately doing it is breaking the rules, you know what you are doing*.

Since it was ruled that you cannot prevent medical treatment or decapitate someone who is dead as a mutineer, but you can do both of those things as the CO, no mutiny is ever truly over until the mutineers have been wiped out or one of them has managed to take the CO's head off with a lucky shot. There is just no other way to actually take control of the ship, because the CO and MPs will keep being revived and will keep fighting back, and they're allowed to finish you off for good if you go down(and the CO generally will), and you have no real way to non-lethally restrain them. The only time the mutiny rules actually worked and made sense were under Rahl's rules, where you were allowed to prevent the CO from being revived. While some of the rules put in place since then have been positive, preventing the mutineers from finishing off the CO have made their victory rely entirely on whether the RNG decides to decapitate him during the fight, which is why in most mutiny situations you will see all mutineers load slugs and aim for the head. It's their only hope for victory within the rules.

[Bancrose]

You are OOCly protected. Other SS13 Sec don't even get that privilege. Consider yourselves at your current best.

However I do agree with you guys, if I as a CO die. I should stay dead. Or the only time I should be revived I should be in an orange uniform and cuffed.

Usually the Mutiny is always super shitty and as a Mod its truly difficult to deal with it because there is at least one person who doesn't understand how mutinies work around here. Permakilling and Decaps and what not. At least ONE person is not having a fun time in it. Than it becomes this massive issue that we gotta try and facilitate.

[dauntasa]

You are OOCly protected. Other SS13 Sec don't even get that privilege. Consider yourselves at your current best.

Yeah, having played Goonstation security frequently: holy shit do you guys have it easy around here.

[captainyankee]

You are OOCly protected. Other SS13 Sec don't even get that privilege. Consider yourselves at your current best.

However I do agree with you guys, if I as a CO die. I should stay dead. Or the only time I should be revived I should be in an orange uniform and cuffed.

Usually the Mutiny is always super shitty and as a Mod its truly difficult to deal with it because there is at least one person who doesn't understand how mutinies work around here. Permakilling and Decaps and what not. At least ONE person is not having a fun time in it. Than it becomes this massive issue that we gotta try and facilitate.

If I happen to be playing medic, and manage to survive a mutiny, I will revive everyone, no questions asked. It's just what you do. Reinhard gets pretty pissed off when he sees CIC staff decapped.

Didn't mean to imply there wasn't ooc protection, the nature of the server basically demands it, but MPs feel like they have very litttle real work to do. In part because we do have strict antag policies.

[Sakuyoi]

According to ML:
If marine didn't holster his rifle after he was warned by MP, then he has violated ML and deserved 5 minutes in brig.

Sometimes i carry a Flamer, Rifle, and an MD, Machete in my belt slot. Lots of people do these too. They dont have a storage slot left for holstering their gun.

Remember when a CO literally told everyone people to walk? If not they will be brigged? This is like the same bullshit. Imagine a vessel where everyone has a gun and you'd be scared of an unholstered weapon. Safeties exist for a reason.

Also just right now i looked at marine law. Theres no law that tells someone that they can brig someone over a weapon in their hands. So you shittiers are making shit up.
If you're saying me that falls into insub because you're SSGT then thats fucking bullshit.
Because it means that an MP can literally order everyone to walk and if they didnt they'll get arrested.

This is also a problem. There's no antags. MPs are kind of designed to be a stopgap for low-level shittery to prevent staff from being overwhelmed with ahelps. But because MPs are IC, they can't acknowledge this fact, they have access to almost no investigative tools, they are random players with no necessary incentive to actually perform their job right. They are essentially security from regular SS13 stations, but they have 0% chance of actually arresting a danger to the ship in non-event rounds. The only time they are useful is mutinies, where they really just amplify the amount of damage to the ship/crew.

Yeah tell that to the guy who mains CMP. Gives maximum sentence over a hooliganism for banging a window. Burns an appeal because people cant into "paperwork". And is notorious of ahelping people over stupid shit instead of making it IC.

[Vispainius]

If you have too many weapons to holster or put away something and keep it sheathed... You are practicing practical weapon usage wrong.

Ever see the photo meme of a soldier carrying a bag of guns on his back and in his hands to the point he can't walk ? It's a meme.


As for the machete, flamer, rifle MD loadout... Yes you do have room.

Machete in belt, flamer or gun on back, flamer or gun in suit slot, and MD in hand. Done. Then. When you DO get in a actual combat zone, switch it up.

But on the ship, standards of safety are to be practiced.
And no. It's not just RP. It works.

Why? Because most people don't use safeties let alone know of em� and even then, there is no way to tell if it is on or not in SS13 CM and in this situation, that creates multiple issues.

I could elaborate on the point better or longer but I won't because its pretty clear there are multiple reasons for the IC law.

[kooarbiter]

Sometimes i carry a Flamer, Rifle, and an MD, Machete in my belt slot. Lots of people do these too. They dont have a storage slot left for holstering their gun.

Remember when a CO literally told everyone people to walk? If not they will be brigged? This is like the same bullshit. Imagine a vessel where everyone has a gun and you'd be scared of an unholstered weapon. Safeties exist for a reason.

Also just right now i looked at marine law. Theres no law that tells someone that they can brig someone over a weapon in their hands. So you shittiers are making shit up.
If you're saying me that falls into insub because you're SSGT then thats fucking bullshit.
Because it means that an MP can literally order everyone to walk and if they didnt they'll get arrested.




Yeah tell that to the guy who mains CMP. Gives maximum sentence over a hooliganism for banging a window. Burns an appeal because people cant into "paperwork". And is notorious of ahelping people over stupid shit instead of making it IC.

It's failure to follow procedure since SOP has the small regs like uniform and equipment

[Sakuyoi]

If you have too many weapons to holster or put away something and keep it sheathed... You are practicing practical weapon usage wrong.

Ever see the photo meme of a soldier carrying a bag of guns on his back and in his hands to the point he can't walk ? It's a meme.


As for the machete, flamer, rifle MD loadout... Yes you do have room.

Machete in belt, flamer or gun on back, flamer or gun in suit slot, and MD in hand. Done. Then. When you DO get in a actual combat zone, switch it up.

But on the ship, standards of safety are to be practiced.
And no. It's not just RP. It works.

Why? Because most people don't use safeties let alone know of em� and even then, there is no way to tell if it is on or not in SS13 CM and in this situation, that creates multiple issues.

I could elaborate on the point better or longer but I won't because its pretty clear there are multiple reasons for the IC law.

Dont compare IRL to the game. Also if you put the flamer or your gun in the back you pretty much dont have storage compartment for flamer ammunition and extinguishers.

Its like arguing that UGL should have instant explosion as a real life counterpart. Carrying a shittone of weapons isnt a meme in this game it benefits you for having lots of playstyle.

It's failure to follow procedure since SOP has the small regs like uniform and equipment

OOCly and ICly people didnt have a problem with it except you MP Mains.
I have not seen any docs perform a shootout at medbay for having too much weapons because of dead bodies in the lobby nor MTs shooting people.
Equipment handling procedure should be removed since its limiting marines on how many guns they want to bring.
Also no sane person would just pick up a gun on the ground and start shooting people.
As i remember CM is MRP so people dont really give a shit about those things unless you shoot them with the said weapon.

[BatteryBan]

Obviously the environment down here is all salt, the ceiling is salt, the floor is salt, the walls are salt, and to an extent the air is salt and you breathe that in you constantly taste salt.
- Some Salt Miner