Remove Ice From Rotation

[Chaznoodles]

Ice is back in the rotation, and none of the problems mentioned throughout this thread were at all approached during it's time out of the rotation. I'd have thought this time, though due to the map causing crashes, would've been taken to improve the map's failings.

Intel is impossible to get. Due to the split between surface and ground, the pieces you need to complete a chain will invariable be underground where you cannot get them. Couple this with the difficulty in maintaining the power meaning you can't access the data consoles that some of the chains - if you complete them - ask for, as well as places being bolted down at start, means that the IO role is next to useless.

The underground. It's a mess and favours xenos, due to all the corridors and the impossibility to lock down an area due to all the flanks. The limited access points that xenos can camp or cover in eggs/huggerholes makes this problem worse, as well as them not matching up. It also completely removes the use of all the marine support abilities.

The snow. Originally put in as what I assume is a limiter on how weeds can spread (similar to the grassy ground on LV), it serves no purpose in hindering xenos due to offweed regen and has minimal slowdown for them due to abilities, and completely cripples marine movement by limiting them to common paths. The slowplow for the tank does not at all fix this problem for marines, as it is a waste of a slot.

Too big. The top map is sprawling and way too big, and minimises contact for the xenos to only when they want to fight. Half the map, at most, is used commonly, with the majority of areas (disposals, Hydro west, northwest) being completely unused aside from runners or lurkers hiding, dragging critical/dead infected marines to stop recovery, or to hide tunnels. Engineering is on the other side of the map and cannot be supported or maintained meaning it's useless as an intended objective for marines.

Any 'challenges' that are implemented as hinted at above are not going to impact xenos at all, and will most likely make the map more difficult and less fun for marines, not that it's fun at all already.


Trijent suffers from most of these exact same problems, devteam don't seem to be learning from their mistakes. There's a reason the 'Vote ice and leave' mentality switched to Trijent when it was out of rotation. I could slamjam out a list of all the ways to solve these problems, but it's unlikely they'd be taken aboard.

[awan]

Ice is back in the rotation, and none of the problems mentioned throughout this thread were at all approached during it's time out of the rotation. I'd have thought this time, though due to the map causing crashes, would've been taken to improve the map's failings.

Intel is impossible to get. Due to the split between surface and ground, the pieces you need to complete a chain will invariable be underground where you cannot get them. Couple this with the difficulty in maintaining the power meaning you can't access the data consoles that some of the chains - if you complete them - ask for, as well as places being bolted down at start, means that the IO role is next to useless.

The underground. It's a mess and favours xenos, due to all the corridors and the impossibility to lock down an area due to all the flanks. The limited access points that xenos can camp or cover in eggs/huggerholes makes this problem worse, as well as them not matching up. It also completely removes the use of all the marine support abilities.

The snow. Originally put in as what I assume is a limiter on how weeds can spread (similar to the grassy ground on LV), it serves no purpose in hindering xenos due to offweed regen and has minimal slowdown for them due to abilities, and completely cripples marine movement by limiting them to common paths. The slowplow for the tank does not at all fix this problem for marines, as it is a waste of a slot.

Too big. The top map is sprawling and way too big, and minimises contact for the xenos to only when they want to fight. Half the map, at most, is used commonly, with the majority of areas (disposals, Hydro west, northwest) being completely unused aside from runners or lurkers hiding, dragging critical/dead infected marines to stop recovery, or to hide tunnels. Engineering is on the other side of the map and cannot be supported or maintained meaning it's useless as an intended objective for marines.

Any 'challenges' that are implemented as hinted at above are not going to impact xenos at all, and will most likely make the map more difficult and less fun for marines, not that it's fun at all already.


Trijent suffers from most of these exact same problems, devteam don't seem to be learning from their mistakes. There's a reason the 'Vote ice and leave' mentality switched to Trijent when it was out of rotation. I could slamjam out a list of all the ways to solve these problems, but it's unlikely they'd be taken aboard.

A few things I do want to clear up.
Trijent is released but still being edited. I do not mean this as an insult. But Trijent was in development for over a year before Dean even became head dev.
Trijent or Desert dam as it was known is a map that was intended for vehicle combat. A map made more for the tank and/or an apc.
The original idea was to add an apc as well and have the tank be more of a lategame thing.
That stuff was all being done mostly by the previous dev team. Almost all sprites for the map are from the old sprite team.
We have had countless idea's to deal with the issues it has.
Like adding in a tram system that quickly transports marines.
Or adding in weather that forces you to only play on part of the map. (Not like the fog on lv.)

Now, Ice has always been an issue for cm.
If you ask me our best map is big red.
I love prison because it's great being a survivor on it.
Lv is old and it shows it's mostly legacy stuff and has issues because of that.
I can honestly say that the general consensus is among the team that ice needs (a re)work.
Though we are also hesitant to remove it. Because there are players who like it.
And the second you remove it the amount of work you have to make it current grows a lot.
Just Awan's opinion maybe not the dev team opinion.
Just look at WO and the "fun" that is.
WO is "this" close to being good if it did not have 5000 small issues that not make it so.
Like: Lag, Not fun for xeno's, Once you lose line 1 you lose until almost the base. Etc.
I would love to see a version of WO that is fun and could be put into the normal rotation.
Wo rant over.

But if you think you have good solutions for ice and trijent that are not the following you can gitlab them and ping me with them.
1. Making them high pop only.
2. Adjust defcon on these maps.

[Thefunk]

Well, Ice is not dying so to speak. In fact, it is being planned as of writing.


The plan is to restore the better side of it Ice, plus some fresh ideas.
Consider it being reincarnated.

This is Great to hear, i dont mind getting a whole rework and having it added upon. I and Us as a Community appreciate all you developers do to keep this game fresh and full of content.

[Slywater]

Any 'challenges' that are implemented as hinted at above are not going to impact xenos at all, and will most likely make the map more difficult and less fun for marines, not that it's fun at all already.

It's a completely new map. Even the name is likely to change. I understand your concern, but you're making a couple of assumptions there.

Trijent suffers from most of these exact same problems, devteam don't seem to be learning from their mistakes. There's a reason the 'Vote ice and leave' mentality switched to Trijent when it was out of rotation. I could slamjam out a list of all the ways to solve these problems, but it's unlikely they'd be taken aboard.

The team has changed considerably over the development of Trijent. That's not ideal, and it is possible we have made repeat mistakes. However, we are making an effort to listen. I am aware of Ice's various issues. If we remade Ice with all the same errors, that would be useless. This is why it's a completely new map.
I'm going to be honest here, it is easy for devs to get out of touch. If you don't play the game as much as a regular, you don't feel the issues as much as the next player.

So just like Awan said, if you have such a list of solutions, ping us.
If you never tell us, it's never gonna happen. PMing a list of issues with detailed descriptions and solutions would be appreciated. That way it's more likely to go through.