Are shotguns too hard to counter attack? [Poll]

[Call me Arty]

Actually 10 max shells.
Unless you are talking about dual wielding shotguns. Those are extremely inaccurate even in its decent range. Only Pointblank would guarantee hit.

But that aside. Fire delay is also Shotgun's weakness. They usually need like two seconds-ish even if they already pump after firing. If you are able to patiently pounce or run in and slash as soon they fired and miss or spit at them at the time they'd soon be worn out by pain.

Here's the issue:
The shotgun's a good weapon.
It's restrained by it's fire rate.

You know what that reminds me of? The musket. You know how they fixed that? By giving every-fucking-body one.

The shotgun is a good weapon.
- so everybody uses it.

Not unlike a musket, it takes a bit to get the next shot off. However, this is nullified when you are suddenly surprised by between two, to god-knows-how many more marines. Stuns keep you down too long to retaliate with pounces, slashes, and sometimes just running away. Just like that, the titans of the Xenomorph team are dead. It's like the Magnetic Harness competing with more than one lurker.

[CABAL]

Alright, alright. Shotgun bad, marinemain bad.

Can you please give alternative to shotgun? Something that doesn't let xenos run with 1/4 of HP behind a rock to heal like a failed modern FPS hero?

And all benomains complain is... Buckshot. What they want to nerf? Shotgun... What the fuck?
Yeah, I don't like one thing, but nerf whole fucking group that this one thing belongs, maybe controversy around that one thing will put some soap in Staffmeme eyes, so they will decide to nerf that whole group, while only thinking about buckshot.

Make another shotgun, make it so it can't take buckshot, balance it. Nerf old shotgun because benos need to easly escape behind a rock and are only allowed to die after major fuckup like not escaping when at 1/4 HP.

[Just L]

ok but have you just tried "gitting gud" ? lol

thanks for putting this in perspective. xenos need major cooperation and even luck to beat a shotgun. they need to get all the slashes before a marine has a chance to 1 shot them, talking bout runners and lurkers etc. the only skill to PB a xeno is knowing how to click on their sprite, which is even easier if its slow one or one with a big hitbox, but xenos have to dance around shotguns, utilize their abilities to the max and all the other stuff

Is this a joke post
It reads like one.

[ChainsawMullet]

Alright, alright. Shotgun bad, marinemain bad.

Can you please give alternative to shotgun? Something that doesn't let xenos run with 1/4 of HP behind a rock to heal like a failed modern FPS hero?

And all benomains complain is... Buckshot. What they want to nerf? Shotgun... What the fuck?
Yeah, I don't like one thing, but nerf whole fucking group that this one thing belongs, maybe controversy around that one thing will put some soap in Staffmeme eyes, so they will decide to nerf that whole group, while only thinking about buckshot.

Make another shotgun, make it so it can't take buckshot, balance it. Nerf old shotgun because benos need to easly escape behind a rock and are only allowed to die after major fuckup like not escaping when at 1/4 HP.

Pretty much this, except we do have the MOU53 which can't take buckshot. Buckshot is the only real way to make sure you can kill a xeno under any normal circumstance, until that changes, buckshot should not change.

[Just L]

Yeah until other weapons are capable of dealing with the combination of absurdly FAT health pools on xenos, their easy healing, and their speed, the other weapons serve little purpose.
To kill a xeno you need to do the following:
Stun them so they can't run off OR slow them down enough with slugs for someone else to kill them - Requires a shotgun
Do a massive amount of damage in a very short amount of time so they can't get queen healed or run away - Requires a shotgun, CAS/Mortar, or spec weapons
Prevent the xeno from using one of their many one hit kill abilities like warrior grab, neuro, facehuggers, etc - Requires slugs on a shotgun OR the xeno to be stunned

Without being able to do most of the above criteria, you can't kill xenos. Therefore, the shotgun is truly the only viable weapon for the average marine.

[CABAL]

Pretty much this, except we do have the MOU53 which can't take buckshot. Buckshot is the only real way to make sure you can kill a xeno under any normal circumstance, until that changes, buckshot should not change.

MOU is a restricted weapon with configuration that doesn't serve the needs of a slugger marine like normal shotgun does because of only 3 shells capacity. I was thinking more about standard issue threaded barrel shotgun that can take only slugs (or flechette too, but nobody cares about this ammo). It could inherit old shotgun sprite. Buckshot shotgun could look more like what Hicks' Shotgun and take each and every ammo, but be balanced around buckshot.

[Ugnip55]

For xenomorphs? Depends. For Marines? Definitely.

[Me_Bigsnail]

I would like to comment on Rocco Ward's argument, just making clear, I have no grudges agaisnt xeno bois but nevertheless I gotta point out some stuff.

This is such a false analogy. You are comparing T3 and Queen abilities to your average marine unga.

Marines (or humans in general) are nothing special, they are all equally weak, it doesnt matter if you are a CO, XO, SO, or any fancy rank, you will suffer the hardships of being an organic (synth gang rise up)

They are meant to counter and be equivalent to specialists, SLs, and CO/XO weapons and armor. Furthermore, most T1s and T2s do not have a 1 hit kill weapon. Shotguns can 1 hit KO most castes. (2 hits and it kills like 90% of castes)

CO equipment has nothing but "special" ammo, pea shooter and armor, SLs only have orders, and only three specialist kits are considered by marines "meta" Grenadier, Sniper and SADAR (the latter being kind of meh) two of these suffer from being forced to stay in the front to deal any kind of damage, and God forbid if a queen notices you're SADAR and you didnt had time to fire, because then this will happend: Elder Queen (hivemind): SADAR Gibbed

Lets also ignore the expensive ass ammo these dudes consume, and regarding T1s and T2s not having a 1 hit 1 kill ability, lets be honest, If you have the lack of awareness to be fighting head on as a T1 in the front, then you're asking for trouble. T2s can reliably defend themselves (warrior lunge, lurker pounce, spitter neuro spits) the player is given tools, its up to them to play around the hazards they encounter AND use the mechanics correctly.

It'd be like me saying that since RPG spec is soooo overpowered, that we need to give every T1 a mini screech AoE ability, lmao. That's the equivalent to what shotguns are now. You gave every T1 Unga a neuro gun that insta crits.

This argument is quite flawed, because shotguns force the player to be in harm's way, users often ignore that shotguns are only effective CQC, and if you ever coin in a kill, chances are the xeno got so greedy, he understimated you, and you took the chance to finish him off.
Also, lets not ignore that in the front pushing head on just because a T1 is lurking around is considered suicide, because you'll have to face several xenos with all kinds of stun based skills.

Snip 4th paragraph (the one about spitters.)

I'm not gonna argue about spitters being slower than marines, because I dont know if the values have changed or not, but still, if a marine EVER comes close to PB a spitter in an open field, then the spitter's incompetence is at fault, they have a quite strong acid that sticks on marines, and neuro that slows down zoomie marines.
Vomiter spitter is quite scary, it can deplete your health if you get hit three times by the acid, so I wouldnt say its a nerfed version of the boiler's acid spit, but rather a skill to be used offensibly, a high damage trade off kind of deal.

About the PB kill diagram, I'll just say the following

T1s are Support castes, like it or not you'll be sticking around to help other castes, because guess what? You're squishy as hell.
T2s are the frontline's core defense, they may not deal the best of damage but their skills can stop cocky ungas on their tracks (exception to lurker, as they're more ambush centered)
T3s are damage dealers, the ones that slice and dice and the most difficult for marines to kill

So yeah, no shit you'll die to buckshot PB if you're a sentinel/defender if you zoom around in a marine push/stronghold, because the caste is not meant to be played that way

That's all.

[Gut_TC]

Here's the issue:
The shotgun's a good weapon.
It's restrained by it's fire rate.

You know what that reminds me of? The musket. You know how they fixed that? By giving every-fucking-body one.

The shotgun is a good weapon.
- so everybody uses it.

Not unlike a musket, it takes a bit to get the next shot off. However, this is nullified when you are suddenly surprised by between two, to god-knows-how many more marines. Stuns keep you down too long to retaliate with pounces, slashes, and sometimes just running away. Just like that, the titans of the Xenomorph team are dead. It's like the Magnetic Harness competing with more than one lurker.

If everyone be using the Shotgun it'd only ended up with them unable to push the boiler gas bombardments, struggling with Sentinels, Spitters and classic Praetorian spits both on enclose and wide open field. Less windows to fire without hitting friendlies with spread wide up pallets and sustainable to any stun attacks from a distance. And buckshots have only like three tiles range. While flechette hurts but people barely use it on standard shotgun.
It's true that with many marines swarming into unga push, trying to attack one would lead to being buckshot by another marine next to them. But Xeno also must coordinates attack rather than always try to solo marines if it's not working. Running away and regroup with others when you see that marines are aware and ready for you with Smartgun and shotguns combination or knowing your limits as you pounce, slashing only a few times and run away and don't come back is also the best idea. Caste picking and composition are important so that marines won't have a chance to get close to you or the hive with shotgun in the first place. Having the area weeded slowing marines down is even worse for them to secure good shots while moving around one tile to another.

Shotgun hurts. And everyone wanna use it. True but even for marines themselves it's a pain in the ass to use and try to hit something they wanted to at full pallets without missing or wasting on their own team.

But that aside. I don't think everyone will actually be using only shotguns and make their full appearance all the time rather at least group of five people that'd soon FF'd eachothers or haven't even fired a shot and already dying. Like imagine marines actually do that.

[Rocco Ward]

I would like to comment on Rocco Ward's argument, just making clear, I have no grudges agaisnt xeno bois but nevertheless I gotta point out some stuff.

Marines (or humans in general) are nothing special, they are all equally weak, it doesnt matter if you are a CO, XO, SO, or any fancy rank, you will suffer the hardships of being an organic (synth gang rise up)

Humans all have the same HP, but different access to skills, armor, and weapons.

CO equipment has nothing but "special" ammo, pea shooter and armor, SLs only have orders, and only three specialist kits are considered by marines "meta" Grenadier, Sniper and SADAR (the latter being kind of meh) two of these suffer from being forced to stay in the front to deal any kind of damage, and God forbid if a queen notices you're SADAR and you didnt had time to fire, because then this will happend: Elder Queen (hivemind): SADAR Gibbed

Lets also ignore the expensive ass ammo these dudes consume, and regarding T1s and T2s not having a 1 hit 1 kill ability, lets be honest, If you have the lack of awareness to be fighting head on as a T1 in the front, then you're asking for trouble. T2s can reliably defend themselves (warrior lunge, lurker pounce, spitter neuro spits) the player is given tools, its up to them to play around the hazards they encounter AND use the mechanics correctly.

Hahahahhaahahahahaha hahaahahahaha haahahaha haha ha... ha.... good joke. CO & XO have access to good armor, smartguns, incendiary ammo, the most powerful status boost from orders, etc. SL has access to good armor, plenty of gear from their personal vendor, and they get first dibs on the squad vendor. Sergeants get access to a special weapon and I'm assuming their smartgun armor is better than your average marines. Specs likewise get better armor and their weapons do significant damage compared to marines.

Thus for marines you have something like:

T1s = Regular Unga
T2s = Sergeants, SLs
T3s = CO/XO & Specs

Either give buckshot a practical weakness OR give xenos the ability to kill marines in 3-5 hits. Right now a marine with a shotty can kill 90% of the hive in 2 hits. Your average xeno has to slash a marine ~10 times to finally KO him. The gameplay balance is broken. Badly.