Are shotguns too hard to counter attack? [Poll]

[CS190]

Did shotguns get stronger again? Am I getting worse? Are more marines than ever using shotguns?

Almost every time I die as a xeno recently it's from shotguns, they're so ubiquitous you have to completely plan every attack you make assuming that the marine you just ambushed is going to whip out one, two, or three shotguns on you 1 second later and crit you into oblivion.

Like it's not enough that a ton of xenos are going to get one-shot by them by the virtue of being new, but then when you think you have it all figured out and you age up, you get hit with that surprise PB stun, and then they pull out their second shotgun and finish you off before you can move.

[Gwuhja]

wait wait wait, what?
marines carry two shotguns?
only a small number of them carry shotguns from what ive seen
usually its an m41a to stop drone castes from running around you before hiding behind a rock for like 10 seconds to heal or an l42 to piss off boilers, and a shotgun to actually secure kills when XX-490 Mature Runner tries to "bait out FF" (read: get frags for "marines mad") or when Leader XX-320 Ancient Crusher crooshes too hard.

besides, most xenos that are combat capable have a way to nae nae on shotguns from range
neuro, acid, gas,
and even ways to secure caps while doing so
pounce, lunge, tailsweep positioned right
and if you're planning to go into pb range you've got stuns up there too
punch, jab, shotneuro

[CS190]

Ehh sort of, I think you're giving a bit too much credit that most players know how to make the best of their abilities. Maybe it's just the time of day I'm playing or that I am stupid enough to try to take on known robustos, but I find myself going up against multi-shotgun marines all the time, and they're usually the ones who are racking up kills left and right.

I mean maybe someone can correct me, but it seems like a buckshot PB, maybe it needs a BC, but it seems like they do more damage than swallowing a grenade, or an ancient rav charge PLUS it stuns.

[Gwuhja]

i dont think that buckshot pbs do more dmaage than resting on an m15 or ancient rav clicking on you

hi, here to adopt my xeno alter ego, XV
as defender, ive been able to tank multiple pbs (like 2) before collapsing of crit
but imo that deals less damage than a well-placed HEDP or m15

its probably the bc though

[CABAL]

Ehh sort of, I think you're giving a bit too much credit that most players know how to make the best of their abilities. Maybe it's just the time of day I'm playing or that I am stupid enough to try to take on known robustos, but I find myself going up against multi-shotgun marines all the time, and they're usually the ones who are racking up kills left and right.

I mean maybe someone can correct me, but it seems like a buckshot PB, maybe it needs a BC, but it seems like they do more damage than swallowing a grenade, or an ancient rav charge PLUS it stuns.

Buckshot PB (when every projectile connects) does around 270 dmg. HEDP way less damage, especially if you rest on it in the open field.
And shotgun (especially buckshot, don't be a benomain who calls buckshot shotgun just "shotgun", this is what caused slug nerf) is the only weapon capable of reliably creating opportunities to kill benos, this is why buckshot shotgun marines get kills so much. How can you imagine Pulse Rifle marine getting kills with his rifle that doesn't stun, or slowdown any beno? In this case beno has to majorly fuck up to be punished, otherwise it can escape with 1% of HP while still being as fast as at 100%.
Buckshot is the only counter to fast castes, while also best weapon at dealing with high HP targets. Those two "quirks" are what keeps buckshot so high and it will never be dethroned. Never ever.

[Gwuhja]

what if we *could* dethrone buckshot then?

what if, say, at out to 4 tiles range m41a bullets slowed down xenos a bit with a message like "The impact of the bullet makes your legs wobbly" or something like that
that why xx-320 Mature Runner cant just pounce spec and run away over and over and over and over because its alpha squad and noone brought a shotgun

or like, hear me out....
pbs with other weapons
stunned

and not meme qfa laser bc heavy speedloader revolver, i mean like bursting xx-960 Elder Ravager who dived SADAR for those delimbs

like m41as with AP or something, or L42s (which are advertised as having "greater stopping power" mind you)

[Destrok]

Don't add more stuns. We just need marine weaponry to have better burst damage. I've been wanting a proper burst battle rifle for a while, something like the L42 with equal damage firing in tight 2 or 3 shot bursts with a hefty cooldown between them, and pinpoint accuracy. Also shotguns and ambush castes are tied together, that is undeniable. You CANNOT nerf shotguns without nerfing ambush castes, and viceversa. Shotguns are the sole counter to ambush castes. If shotguns were to be dethroned, runners and lurkers would need some HEAVY changes.

[xenofood]

what if we *could* dethrone buckshot then?

You can't dethrone buckshot unless you buff other weapons. On its own, that doesn't sound like much of a problem, but imagine what would happen if let's say M41A was buffed to be equal to it. Within a week, Marines figure out which one is best in which scenario and will carry both of them to switch between and we're back to square one. Only this time, it's two weapons instead of one.

And regarding stun/slowdown, that's a very fun subject. You could, theoretically, make xenos slow down based on how much health they have, like it is with marine pain mechanic. The nuclear fucking meltdown xenos would have would rival Chernobyl.

[Moosetasm]

You can't dethrone buckshot unless you buff other weapons.

This. Only... like x10

[Rocco Ward]

Naked marines can absorb more slashes from T3s than a T3 absorbing PBs. Fact.

Also armor doesn't really block that much damage from PBs. T2s only take 2 PBs to go into crit with the exception of the warrior.