The L42 is the only gun that does decent damage at range, I will give you that, but most marines don't have the brain cells or accuracy to use it.Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ
The L42 is the only gun that does decent damage at range, I will give you that, but most marines don't have the brain cells or accuracy to use it.
So its the old argument of balancing marines around their best players and benos around their worst, isn't it? Skilled marine can do wonders with L42? We can only wonder what will happen when more people will start to use L42. What will happen after some time passes with all of them getting good at using L42? Hmmm... Lets check out other marine weapons to accurately pinpoint what will happen...
Slugs. Such a wonderfull untility tool, but long keept deeply under the shadow of buckshot. Came the buff that balanced slug to be viable and what happened next? It took some time, marines started to experiment with it, started to use it, started to master it... And then what happened? Uh... NERF! Yes, it was nerfed and... Marines stopped using slugs. I wonder... I bet L42 case won't be just repeating the slug story, I'm 100% sure and I can put my own kidney on the table to say that no way in hell L42 will be nerfed if more marines would start to use it effectively. No beno will ever cry acid tears that L42 is too good, that since it uses the same ammo as pulse rifle it shouldn't do more damage, that it shouldn't shoot faster than Pulse Rifle, that it shouldn't be able to shoot accurately while marine is running etc.
Do we all agree?
Last edited by CABAL; 04-13-2020 at 12:51 AM.
Another wonderful stat that we can add to the data, all it takes is one PB buckshot to instacrit a young Ravager. This is pitiful. Gonna test Crusher and Prae's next.
young is the problem here
Shhh, don't say that. Any newly evolved T3 should be nigh indestructible and always win unless very heavily outnumbered.
Let's also ignore the fact that Ravagers are in the god damn AMBUSH line of evolution, they are NOT frontline fighters.
I'll save you the trouble, managed to buckshot PB each several times in my career. Didn't even break stride.
Queen took 3 hits to kill at 100% health and young. People here are also assuming that going from young to mature is a super sayian stat boost that is gonna be game breaking. In reality young vs ancient is maybe a 200% boost, but I think it's more like 150%. The only major difference for PBs is armor. The only castes that can withstand buck are warriors, praes, crushers, and queens. Everything else gets cucked hard. Even defenders get stunlocked from buck even though they have the armor to survive it.
The only reason xenos win any rounds is due to queen screech and boiler gas. It's ALWAYS what carries every round for the xeno side. Without the two of those, the winrate would be 95% marine. Now why is that? Because marines have a 5:1 advantage in numbers. Even with shipside crew, the numbers would still be 3:1 or 4:1. To top it off, marines have infinite revives and endless latejoiners. That's why you see queens constantly gibbing bodies. Or when you see drones walling in marine bodies. It's super cheesy, but can you blame them?
Honestly this game plays the opposite from the movie. Xenos are usually the ones who are in fear of the marines, not the other way around. The marines are endless. They don't die and appear everywhere. All you have to do is swap the fucking sprites and that's the hilarious reality. Swap out gunshots with acid. Grenades with shatter blob. Buckshot with slashes. And presto it now feels just like the movie.
The enemy is four times numerically superior than you
In 1v1 all it takes is one slash to kill you
The enemy is faster than you
The enemy can track you easily
The enemy can destroy the environment with ease
To kill one enemy you have to corner it with several teammates and hope he doesn't slash one of you for an instakill
Just swap the sprites one day and see what I mean. It's the harsh truth.
tl;dr everything irrelevant, wait for the xeno rework.
If she gets PB'ed 3 times in a row, that's not an OP shotgun, that's a Queen that made a mistake, went SSD, got cornered or was bald. You can't blame buckshot for this one.
As it should be, otherwise you might as well just remove buckshot entirely if it doesn't do anything.
Larva is a T0, no questions here.
Drone, Runner and Sentinel are all T1s, Specialist, Ambush and Ranged respectively. Buckshot should work. Defender is the only one questionable, but it needs be taken into account that he's a T1 before any decision one way or another is made. If I'm not mistaken, Defender can lower his crest for added defense, but I'd need to know if that helps him against buckshot PB. Logically, it should. Without crest lowered, it shouldn't.
Carrier, Burrower and Hivelord are Specialist T2s. They have no reason to be impervious to PB buckshot, they're not supposed to be anywhere near where it might happen to them.
Same goes for Spitters, T2 Ranged. They're not supposed to be anywhere near a Marine.
Lurkers are Ambush T2s, their main strength is, well, ambushing marines. The only defense a marine has against a Lurker is either buckshot, or having buddies nearby. And 1on1 against a Lurker that knows what he's doing, it's very hard to PB him before he crits you. A while ago I suggested giving Lurkers a Neuro-Sting ability, that can be done while Cloaked, reveals you when it succeeds or fails, takes 3+ seconds to windup, 10 minute cooldown and imparts a 60-second stun + slurred speech onto a Marine. This would ensure that a lone Marine that didn't notice the Lurker will be fucked, unless he has friends nearby. A marine that does notice the faint shimmer of a Lurker nearby would still have a chance to defend himself. However, making Lurkers impervious to buckshot PBs makes zero sense.
Ravager and Boiler, T3s that are Ambush and Ranged respectively. Boiler is a no-brainer, Ravager can be argued, if they have a strain that specifically makes them a frontline fighter. Otherwise no, they are an Ambush type.
Praetorian, Crusher, Warrior and Queen, as you said, those are the only four that can withstand PB buckshot and from my own experience I know it's true. If they get PB'ed multiple times in a row or short succession, that's not OP buckshot, that's a suicidal xeno.
Boiler gas only delays the inevitable marine murderball, it's hard to even say that it helps the xenos win. All it does is introduce a stalemate and my least favourite part of the game.
3:1 is what I'd say is more fitting, at least until one or the other side starts dying. Marines coming back heavily depends on competent medics and actually getting dragged out. If you get really fucked, it takes a long time to get back in. But yes, plenty of marines in reserve that are just itching to join the frontline when one falls. This could be more attributed to more people wanting to play marines than xenos. 1-2 hours in the deadchat is full of people who died and decided to ghost instead of spawning as a xeno. This is a player problem more than it is a game mechanic's fault.
On a sidenote, advantage in numbers also works against the marines, because you have to remember to account for Friendly Fire. Of the 20 marines you see, only a portion of them can be shooting at any given time, depending on positioning, and very often you can see marines straight up not shooting at all because they're afraid of hitting their buddy they're trying to save. The amount of times I've seen a Runner run through a group of marines, slash one and disappear because either nobody shot at him in fear of FF, or someone shot at him and did indeed hit a marine instead, is remarkable. Think about how ridiculous the game would be if marines had no FF to worry about.
Not really, I understand the xeno frustration and over the past two weeks, 9/10 rounds I was in was a Marine win. But you can't blame that on buckshot, there's a myriad of other contributing factors. I would have to play xeno a few times to get an accurate gauge on how they operate, what kind of structure they're in, what sort of strategies they employ, how much oversight does a Queen have, if there's any sort of planning (if possible) to flank marines while they're holding off a Boiler chokepoint, use of traps and structures, doors, walls and special resin, things like that.
No argument here. I raised the same point not too long ago, that it's interesting how xenos adopted the turtling strategy, while marines are now the ones who murderball, at least from what I've seen. Keep in mind that I only see at most 10 of the rounds played in a week. What we need, unless we already have it and I somehow managed to miss it even though I did look for it, is a collection of round stats that show time/date, starting population of each side, round time and who won and how.
In conclusion, this is not an issue of whether PB buckshot is OP or not. This is an issue of player skill, willingness to play as a xeno, cooperation and population difference. And none of that can be easily fixed without a ton of research and mistakes made along the way.
can we please fucking remember that you're not meant to fight at young and if you're making any sort of conclusions based on the stats of young xenos who are also nerfed in current XSS branch because of the spawn pool
you are a top tier brainlet
Unironically the difference between young and mature lurker in XSS is over 200 health. You go from instagibbing from buck, to tanking a full PB and still living.
Waiting for lagless CM
Manuel Conrad - Human
Alexander Keys - Human (Command)
SA-D5 - Xenomorph
Har'Kittak - Yautja
Thomas - Synthetic
I'm awesome
im more concerned with how rocco seems to forget that pounce and neuro exists
pounce, lunge, neuro, tailsweep, whatever XX-590 Ancient Defender can pull out can still knock down a marine
knocking down a marine means no shotgun, means crits on the groin and popping a liver, means dragging him into fire and getting the pyro pfc punched in the face, means dragging him through gas and into the loving arms of your carrier, means runner gang slashing him to death, whatever
rocco, you have stun abilities
use them
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