Why aren't CLs whitelist only?

[50RemAndCounting]

You people really dislike RP roles with a passion don't you ?

If the CL is a good fax writer we can help them have a great RP experience that round. There's many things a CL could get done that don't involve round-disruptive stuff.

Whitelist is still bad thanks to one more thing: Only report can punish grieffer with a whitelist. This makes whitelist a grieffing shield.

Also... What about giving CL some objectives and letting it go? He kills half of the marine force shipside somehow? Well... Maybe time to react with nice ERT to recompensate, or some ebent groundside to weaken benos?

I would say I agree with your first point, but considering that a good whitelist application takes a disproportionately large amount of effort to make, and that there is near-zero tolerance for screwups, it just doesn't make sense. Few roles are as effectively able to grief as, say, a PFC with a grenadier kit.

As for the second point, how can we simultaneously not monitor what the CL is doing and then spawn an ERT or abomb the xenos or whatever just because the CL majorly disrupted the round?

[CABAL]

I would say I agree with your first point, but considering that a good whitelist application takes a disproportionately large amount of effort to make, and that there is near-zero tolerance for screwups, it just doesn't make sense. Few roles are as effectively able to grief as, say, a PFC with a grenadier kit.

As for the second point, how can we simultaneously not monitor what the CL is doing and then spawn an ERT or abomb the xenos or whatever just because the CL majorly disrupted the round?

Good whitelist is a popularity contest with bunch of boring BS that never will be used in-game. It's already wide know that if guy with whitelists wants to end his SS13 (or just CM) career for good, he will most likely do what famous pred did during briefing. And you can't punish him for that immediately without breaking grieffing shield rule. PFC with nade still risks ASAP reaction from staff, whitelisted pred does not.
There is also issue of "soft grief". You can break the rules only slighty, in a subtle way that even if caught will get you "warning". You can soft grief whole week while players will scratch their head if it is worth their time to write a report, but even if it is, damage in-game won't be reverted. Round still going and nothing can be done. Round ended and nothing can be done.

It's not like you can't deduce what CL did just from what happened. Currently nobody can be antag shipside on normal round. Any antagonistic action will either be caused by ebent CL, or grieffer, so I imagine it isn't hard to figure out via logs who killed those players shipside, or who turned off the engine etc. Monitoring command channel/announcements is enough to say if CIC was disrupted, or not.

Besides, I can't imagine somebody playing CL and then going too much over the line. What he can do at best? Poison CIC? Kill two MP's? There is practically nowhere to hide on the Almayer. If you simply order him via Fax that you want shit going quietly and non-lethal, then he either does this stealthy, or goes full rambo and when attack logs from Almayer starts to flow, then it is time to check up on him. If crew is somehow unrobust enough to defeat one CL (and maybe few implanted rines who can still refuse orders and just switch sides in the heat of the battle, before CL will be able to say triggering sentence) then send some ERT with sole purpose of doing that and then spawn maybe one "corrupted" runner, who will have task to disrupt the hive (freeing captured rines, destroying eggs, slashing boilers, forcing Queen to de-ovi) etc.
At this point you could just Alt-Tab 10 minutes, check what happens and do that again.

[ChainsawMullet]

Good whitelist is a popularity contest with bunch of boring BS that never will be used in-game. It's already wide know that if guy with whitelists wants to end his SS13 (or just CM) career for good, he will most likely do what famous pred did during briefing. And you can't punish him for that immediately without breaking grieffing shield rule.

You know Jakk was banned on the spot with no consideration for the fact that he was playing a whitelisted role, right? Grief is grief and playing a whitelisted role doesn't protect you from server rules.

[CABAL]

You know Jakk was banned on the spot with no consideration for the fact that he was playing a whitelisted role, right? Grief is grief and playing a whitelisted role doesn't protect you from server rules.

Yup, that was example, maybe a bit poor but general idea is there. What if he would decide to break his whitelist rules instead of server rules? Like starting to wiping out half of the fob while cloacked? Or killing half of the Hive? No server rule against that, admins on the server have tied hands, either they step in and break the rule to punish guy who breaks the rules, or they do nothing.

[ChainsawMullet]

Yup, that was example, maybe a bit poor but general idea is there. What if he would decide to break his whitelist rules instead of server rules? Like starting to wiping out half of the fob while cloacked? Or killing half of the Hive? No server rule against that, admins on the server have tied hands, either they step in and break the rule to punish guy who breaks the rules, or they do nothing.

Then that would be a whitelist issue, yes. Predators are antagonists, they're not around to revive you, they're there to kill you. He would be overstepping his bounds but a Predator doing it is barely different to a good T3 doing it. If you really don't trust them not to do it you should be shooting Preds on sight (spoiler alert you're intended to shoot them on sight).

[CABAL]

Then that would be a whitelist issue, yes. Predators are antagonists, they're not around to revive you, they're there to kill you. He would be overstepping his bounds but a Predator doing it is barely different to a good T3 doing it. If you really don't trust them not to do it you should be shooting Preds on sight (spoiler alert you're intended to shoot them on sight).

Yeah, we all know that, we all shoot them, they are always escaping when in trouble.

[Fewher]

Whitelist is still bad thanks to one more thing: Only report can punish grieffer with a whitelist. This makes whitelist a grieffing shield.

Also... What about giving CL some objectives and letting it go? He kills half of the marine force shipside somehow? Well... Maybe time to react with nice ERT to recompensate, or some ebent groundside to weaken benos?
You don't have to watch him 24h , did you watch any event run? I'm pretty sure that it's not the case with so many ebents being either one-sided, or simply silly and goofy.

Speaking from experience, it was extremely exhausting giving players antag objectives on CM and having to watch them.
This really goes for any "special" event as it was huge time-sink.

[SilentMountain]

If the CL is a good fax writer we can help them have a great RP experience that round. There's many things a CL could get done that don't involve round-disruptive stuff.

The fact you can only distinguish between "the CL gets nothing" and "The CL disrupts the round" is worrying to say the least but a good example of why RP roles are currently in the gutter.

[Tails of Akira]

Well it's simple... It would be too awesome for CM

[Fewher]

CL needs more of a purpose.

We had plans to integrate science/research roles with CL being incharge of them.
WY was going to operate it's own private research area on the ship independent of the Almayer. This would essentially justify a researcher/science position on a military ship and open CL/WY up to a lot of potential interesting features.

Shame it never came to be, but I'd go into this direction if you wanted CL to have more of a purpose which you could then justify making it a WL position and WY could assume it's proper "Sneaky, Shady" role onboard the ship under a Science Division.