Jones is a stupid cat

[RaddishRed]

you are a soft griefer and an asshole for playing MP in the first place

ok discord banned

[DekoToast]

Jones needs more rights. Make him emperor of mankind.

[CABAL]

Anyway, point being: Jones-related LRP is the least of CM13's problems.

But its a seed. Seed of LRP that is cannon. Just like removing Sexual Assault from Capital Crimes. You can just literally come to the CMP ingame and ask him if Rape is legal. He can only say that its Minor Crime and its "Sexual Harrasement", so in pratice, refusal to deploy groundside as PFC is punished harsher than a Rape. In CM world rape doesn't happen. Its all candy and cheerfull joy, thus LRP. We are living in No Bad Man Galaxy, not Milky Way. Its a hole in otherwise fairly belivelable world

Most of the shit you listed is just players being players that can be explained (and somehow is) in the lore. https://cm-ss13.com/wiki/USS_Almayer
"However, the marines that serve aboard these patrol transports are either volunteer forces or conscripted to their long voyages in outer territories where most luxuries do not exist."
Falling Falcons are bunch of morons, conscripts and volunteers with a deathwish. They fly in Cryo for years, they either don't have family, or they fucking hate them. Bunch of man-childs and man-apes with occasional vet who got his ass kicked enough to shake some of the dumb behaviour, but deep inside is still a mere Unga.

"- throwing lit flares and other garbage" Like you have never seen how it is like in less prestigious schools for example. Notebooks, balls of binded paper with water and such.
"- people ODing on coffee/drugs" They just like their coffee. And I'm sure no more than one marine actually is OD'ing on drug that harms him in any way.
"- PVT/PFC yelling dumb shit at command or other persons of higher rank" They do yell dumb shit, but they aren't disrespectfull and they don't insult command too much. Even in movie you have Hudson who ask on brieffing "How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?". WHAT? HE ASKED DUMB SHIT TO HIS SUPERIOR? LLLLLLLL RRRRRRRR PPPPPPPP!
"- *warcry spam" Yes, I'm annoyed by that too, not only on brieffing. I was proposing screenwide cooldown on such shit, but mere thought about not being able to do stupid shit is what causes outrage.
"- throwing training and smoke grenades" I see no harm in training nades, while smokes could be also disabled on Almayer before Red Alert just as normal nades are.
"- people shoving each other, stealing seats in the dropship, disarm spam" Pretty normal, always some fun to harmlessly wrestle with fellow rines to lift spirits.
"- someone always turns on all intercom consoles on the dropship, resulting is massive spam" No military ever hired a prankster?
"- 9/10 drops there is a disarm fight breaking out in the dropship and people charging into the cockpit, sometimes they end up fucking up the console so the dropship can't fly"
Same as said a little above, disarm fight isn't something unthinkable in scenario we are presented with. Also how marines doing that can fuck up with console? No ID, you can't do shit to it.
"- mass-vending of attachies in the squad prep and just dumping them on the floor" SL convinience against admeme sick vision. They could already be always vended behind unbreakable glass that SL can left open if he doesn't want to serve them to each marine individually.
"- active shooter" Most likely grieffer, or new player. Can't really prevent both types of players from doing that. I don't think regulars often happen to do much besides occasional discharge in prep.
"- endless god damn spam of whatever generates a sound + chat message, usually something gun-related where it can be done literally by spam-pressing Use-Held-Object macro" Lots of people, so it happens to be loud. Revolver spin and shit like that is way more pleasant to listen than warcry.

There isn't always a riot if MPs come in. If marines notice that one of them is being a shitler, they might even help MPs. Marines will riot if they will feel that MP actions are unjustified (in their eyes, not in the light of ML). I'm guaranteeing you that marines will respond nicer to your arrest if you first talk with marine who is causing trouble. Juming to stunbatton, tazer, or flash immediately isn't something that people enjoy seeing. MPs got the reputation of being shitlers ruining fun and actively harming marine chances to win as a secret beno caste. You have to work a little bit to gain marines trust. You might for example even ask other rines to help you capture some troublemaker. In my case, I can assure you that I would help any MP (outside Rex Texas) if he would ask me to help him out to teach some tard baldo who causes too much trouble.

[xenofood]

snippety snip snip

Regarding rape and sexual assault and basically any kind of ERP, consensual or not, here's the thing about that. Having it in adds nothing to the game except a reminder that rape is a thing and that furries ERPing with xenos are real. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't take anything away from what the game is supposed to be. It's like a D&D game. You know rape happens in the fantasy world, but there really is no need to point it out because it adds nothing to the game except teenager-tier edge. That's all I'm gonna say about that, discussing inclusion of rape/sex in games and whether or not it's necessary to acknowledge their existence is always gonna be a divided debate.

About the rest and general marine behaviour, I suppose you raise good points. We're not really top of the line on Almayer, although I have a feeling that part of the lore is more because it's pointless to try to claim otherwise and. The chickenshit outfit thing, good point too, although he did get smoked for it offscreen for sure, but I'm rambling.

Personally, I don't mind it most of the time, when it's at least reasonable, but come on, you have to admit that there's a certain level that, when reached, makes the whole thing just straight up annoying. Maybe I've been just lucky enough to see mostly rounds where it really gets too rowdy, or maybe it's my personality, I just sit there, get my briefing, go deploy and then stick to my SL and die.

And no, I don't play MP, and neither do I interfere with marine roundstart shenanigans. I've come to accept them as something standard on CM13. That being said, you can't blame me for rolling my eyes whenever briefing shenanigans look more like coked up toddlers as opposed to just rowdy marines. We're all here to have fun, some of us like throwing smoke grenades in briefing, some of us enjoy roleplaying a dumbass kid who got lost on his way to college and is just trying to do whatever he's been told his job is.

[CABAL]

snip

I'm not talking about including rape, or shit like that to the game, I'm talking about game not having obvious "plot-holes" that ruing MRP setting. Human Rights for Jones is but another thing that ruins it and I don't like LRP setting in CM. It not like it never was included in ML, but was removed for whatever reason. This isn't just being lazy, or ignorant to RP, its action to actively put it lower on a scale. Concious action.
If LRP shit like that flies trough we might as well drop the masquarade of any RP and devolve into pure TDM. But that won't work either since Corp Merc does that and does that way better.
Now its just a matter of time since this server will be become more, or less regular, so the players with pure fighting mindset will go. We will be left with LRP laws, unreasonable world.
" - Oh, is that illegal?"
" - No, but it would, however its against gods will, so they will smite you for that, so we didn't put that in our Laws since it is impossible for you to break them without punishment anyway"
In D&D example, you don't think about it, but when you RP going into a city, or something, then there are some rules. Having at the back of your head that some kind of immoral activity isn't illegal, because invisible deities punish anyone who does so efficiently, that they stopped be a crimes, is really taking any crumbs of immersion left.

[xenofood]

In D&D example, you don't think about it, but when you RP going into a city, or something, then there are some rules. Having at the back of your head that some kind of immoral activity isn't illegal, because invisible deities punish anyone who does so efficiently, that they stopped be a crimes, is really taking any crumbs of immersion left.

I think you misunderstood what I meant, let me give you an example from the game I DM. We simply don't talk about it, because we don't need to talk about it, because it adds nothing to the game.

As a DM who knows everything about the world I designed for my campaign:
- Does it happen? Probably, yes.
- Is it illegal? Of course.
- Is it punished by town guards as per law if discovered? Yes.
- Do I or my players have the need to poke at the subject, bring it up, act it out or otherwise include it, whether by asking a guard about it or specifically seeking it out? No. We're all adults who understand that there are some things that exist even in a fantasy world, but pointing them out has no benefit to the game.

It's very much like how I don't go into detail whenever the subject of torture comes up. Sure, I mention scars, or briefly describe whatever implements are strewn about on the bloodstained table, but I don't go into full graphic detail about how it happens as it happens, because again, it adds nothing.

In a way, I understand your point of view, it really is a handwavy way to gloss over something, creating a sort of a plot hole. But the thing about that is, the plot hole is only there if you poke at it. Up until getting into this discussion, I didn't even think about whether or not a crime like that is listed in Marine Law or not, because I simply did not care. And if I did care, I'd just assume that it's definitely illegal, would be punishable by Marine Law as a capital crime or whatever, even though it's already punished by Admins, and we all simply pretend that while it does happen in the universe Almayer floats through, it is something we collectively acknowledge and then don't have the need to talk about, because we're all here to pew pew aliens.

and devolve into pure TDM

That's inevitable already.

[Minimike]

I used to kill jones every chance I got, I kinda gave up though because I got bored, but yeah perma for killing jones is autistic. let me play 2d spaceman instead of milsim pls

[CABAL]

That's inevitable already.

Then lets try to prolong this shift, or even hope that it won't happen. Plot hole doesn't exist only if I poke it. It exist as a hole in established setting. Even if you are right with keeping rules "in the back of the head", but if you would want to go into details (for some reason) you know it is there. It isn't in "purgatory" for rules, if brough up, it exist.
You can't really just not acknowledge something in the RP game if it is a part of it. And ML is a part of this game.
Everything that isn't written there that its illegal, its legal. You can't RP law system where you skip laws in favour of deus ex machina judge. This is the main problem. All laws and rules are clearly written and we really need OOC in IC? This is opposite of Role Playing.

In my opinion, it just ruined any crumbs of RP there was. All that was left are LRP ebents and no admeme from now on should even dare to say "CM aims at MRP".

Lets bear in mind that wanting to become a cyborg is considered super LRP, but cat with human rights and lackluster ML? Fine mate! I would even call it HRP.

[xenofood]

Then lets try to prolong this shift...

I do what I can, with whatever limited arsenal I have at my disposal as a PFC main. I do my job, follow command, when I have time, I have some fun roleplay, but that's as much as I can do.

You do make good points I agree with and the issue here is how divided the ideas are for what MRP is and what's not, and rather than having a small group decide what's best for the server, maybe there should be a much larger, proper, official discussion on the state and future of CM13 RP rules.

[Nyvrem]

Legal protection for the captain's pet just makes the captain less based when they BE someone over harming it.