Decker100 - Rule 2 and 3, maybe?

[Vampmare]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

Vampmare

Your Character Name?

Henry 'Leo' Barnes

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Decker100

Accused Character Name

Decker Alsimia

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

Just now, last round. About 9:50 Central US?

What rule(s) were broken:

Rule 2 and 3, maybe?

Description of the incident:

I was the Charlie SL on a Big Red round, with Decker Alsimia being the Captain. The context here is important, so I'll explain the situation briefly.

We were holding General Store, a mixed squad of around 5 people. I call for a retreat as our number of wounded was around the same as the number of marines standing, I'm then informed to hold at Store. I then proceeded to fight until I could barely stand and we were 3 people left standing with several wounding. Xenos quite literally chased us out, as you can see in the logs, we're fighting, stuttering as we hold but slowly getting pushed backwards. The xenos leave us be as we reach the Hangar and I assume to turn around and maul Delta? After reaching the FOB, I was pretty much passed out until I got up to the Medbay.

After having recieved surgery I come out to an injured Murray going "I wold say the N word, but the gods are watching", so I punch him once in jest and go "Idiot." The CO sees this as he's in Medbay tending wounded? I think. He runs up, flashes me and cuffs me. I'm then dragged to Brig and he tells me I'm being arrested for desertion. I'm then left in the Brig. Alone, with no on watching me until xenos and hijack.

I'm very displeased with the Captain for
1. Arresting me? There were no MPs, but he is more than capable of deputizing his SOs to handle arrest. He is also free to use the BE, if he thought I ruined his mission.
2. The desertion charge. In no way did I or anyone with me desert our posts, we were dying in General Store and pushed back. I told him several times to ask the SO who was watching our squad the whole time, but he refused.

This is very much what I told Decker to be careful of in his CO application, so I'm quite disappointed.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

The fighting and announcements:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...32322/log1.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...25236/log2.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...14112/log3.PNG

Me punching Murray and being arrested:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...98900/log4.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...82144/log5.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9435/log_6.PNG

Announcement and charges being said to me in my cell:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16138/log6.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...54016/log7.PNG

How you would punish the accused:

That would be up to the CO council to decide. I pretty much said my piece on his application.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Pulling logs at the moment.

Actually the screenshots line up with the logs pulled, however.

I have went ahead and found the ahelp Vamp sent and putting it here for the record.

Moderator does investigation

[Decker100]

Hello.

I've already been spoken to about this issue by Frans_Feiffer and he made me aware to try and avoid handing arrests myself. If he wishes to post screenshots of that conversation I have no problem with it.


I was mistaken in handling you myself but the remainders of Delta Squad, Delta Squads Leader (Amira Young) and, if I recall correctly, one of the Staff Officers had stated that Charlie Squad pulling back had directly lead to Delta Squad being wiped. I was checking the tactical map and helmet cams and despite giving orders repeatedly for Charlie to hold position. They retreated.

Delta's Squad Leader specifically requested that I BE you for that action. I had no intention to up until I saw you, for some reason which baffles me, hit Philip Murray who was in a very bad condition awaiting surgery, naked on the Medbay's deck, for some racial comment. Which is, in my opinion, a very nasty thing to do. Beating up your fellow Marine, especially when they are vulnerable, is horrible.

However, I don't believe a BE was warranted on that basis, if we were talking in realistic terms you'd be held in the brig for investigation and court martial. OOCly evacuation was already done and you would not have long to wait in the brig.

Due to the lack of MPs and the Command needing my attention, I stepped back out of the brig and the Xenos launched the Alamo, to which I then had to handle the unlocking of armouries. I then returned to the Brig to release you, with your fellow Marines attempting to free you themselves, and told you to re-arm. To which you informed me you would not to. As the defence of the ship was higher on my list of priorities than handling you, I left you next to your equipment and a clear way out of the brig should you suddenly decide to pick up a rifle and fight.

I believe in your response to my application you stated concern that I may use misuse the BE. You are now complaining that my taking of action of placing you in the brig instead of BEing you, is also wrong. If I am going to be completely honest I do believe you have a grudge, but saying you have a grudge isn't going to simply negate any argument you have.

In regards to the specific rules.
Rule 2, I carried out your arrest and informed you repeatedly of what you were being brigged for. Instead of simply BEing you. I am unsure why this violates roleplay.
Rule 3, I will say, placing you in the brig for desertion may of been exaggerated, however striking a wounded Marine on the deck for slander isn't a very nice thing to do either. If you mean Rule 3 in regards that I am a "dick" to you OOCly. I wasn't even aware you played Henry Barnes.

To summarise, I've spoken to Frans_Feiffer about this incident and I've taken to heart what he's said. ICly, I do believe your actions lead to Delta Squad being wiped and I am in firm belief that assaulting a fellow Marine who is in severe condition is one of the most dishonourable and distasteful things someone can do. Which is why I took action.

EDIT: I believe, if any rule was broken, it would be Rule-5 as I carried out an arrest as a Commanding Officer, rather than utilising either the MPs (which I believe there were none of) or deputising SOs (who I believed were in medical themselves after a brief boarding action by a predator). I will simply avoid handling arrests directly in the future.

[Vampmare]

-snip-

According to my logs, as in what I saw, we were told to hold our position twice and the logs also show that both times, everyone around me is being mauled and I'm shooting. I'm not sure why you choose to believe completely in the words of someone who saw nothing of what transpired as they were flanking, instead of talking to me or the SO involved with my squad. This is where I believe Rule 2 was broken in a way. If the Delta SL said I had killed a man, would you have BE'd me on the spot simply because they gave their word? Rule 3 was mostly regarding the fact that you decided to arrest me based on someones else's word and left me in Brig. I do not waste time holding grudges and I don't see why you assume that. You broke the rules and I reported it, it doesn't matter which CO did it.

In my response, I gave concern that you had a hatred for MPs and would decide to do things yourself. That was what I was referring to. Also in that regard, a permabrig is the same as a BE, when done so by the CO. In my opinion.

Punching someone once is debatable if it's assault, but as I said in my ahelp, I would have gladly taken an assault charge for what I did. That was not the case here, you arrested me for some other bogus charge and slandered my name over the announcements.

I'll let the CO council give their opinion on this.

[Survivor]

The Council is looking into this.


Expect a response eventually.

[Decker100]

I can see what you mean about Rule 2 now. I was going off the information relayed to me by Delta Squad, my Staff Officers and what I was seeing on the Tactical Map. My action was based on both that response and your clear disregard for the well being of your fellows (ICly ofcourse) by beating a wounded Marine.

Your response to my Whitelist application regarding BE's (https://gyazo.com/98071ef84476c96bd4d1ad37d15c958c) shows that whilst you identify an issue I have with MPs, which I addressed, you were concerned I would BE people for incompetence and implied I would not utilise MPs correctly. Obviously I didn't utilise MPs correctly in this instance, but you weren't BE'd.

I'm unsure why you believe being put in the brig is identical to a Battlefield execution. There was zero reason for me to have you shot dead in the middle of the medical bay or shot at all. I have seen the BE used on people for arguing back to the CO (which I believe is a poor use of the BE) and people seem oddly fine with that. Throwing you in the brig and then releasing you during condition red, allowing you to arm yourself and assist in defence of the ship, which you told me you had no desire to do, is very different than being dead.

To me, a Battlefield Execution is a quick and simple way to stop someone immediately. Since my whitelist I have not BE'd a single person, both due to lack of incidents requiring a BE and because I chose to allow Marine Law to take it's course. There's no reason to condemn someone to death on the spot after they've already committed the crime when we have MPs to carry out executions or perma-brig.

If I had BE'd you I would of been required to announce the reason regardless. Whilst I can see that you may see it as "slander", people will question why a Squad Leader has been thrown in the brig and whilst I was not required to use the announcements to give a reason, I believed it would be in the best interests of the Marines to be informed on why. Beyond telling you what you had done was dishonourable and you lied about your position, which according to the OW and TACMAP, you had, I don't recall spouting insults at you. Though if you believe the announcement was strongly worded, I could agree.

The reason why I believe you hold a grudge is because of your immediate actions against me on anything negative. Now either I'm unlucky and just happen to be the source of an issue during the rounds you play, or you don't report other players for issues as this is the only player-report I can find started by you in the new forums. I don't know which rounds you play because I'm unfamiliar with your characters so I am not 100% certain but I do find it hard to believe I am the only individual who has wronged you, then again I might be. I want to try and keep an open mind in regards to accusing people of 'grudges' but I do believe it's worth noting. I'm hoping you can understand my suspicion and like I said, having a grudge doesn't immediately make things invalid.

Regardless, I hope the CO Council resolves the issue quickly.

[Swagile]

I was the Delta SL that round.

The reason I asked for Charlie SL's head was because I was told Charlie was holding at General Store and was then ordered by the CPT to do a flank.

I scrounged up the remnants of Delta and manage to pull off the flank with about 8 other marines, give or take, and get absolutely demolished due to the fact that I get there and Charlie had retreated without telling anyone, leaving me and the remnants of Delta in a flank with no retreat against 10 + xenos, with a couple T3's mixed in.

So understandably I was mad and called for the BE before I was dragged off to be hugged while in critical condition and ended up dying from wounds.

[Kerek]

The Commander Council has decided that Decker100 is to be warned for breaking the procedure that MPs have to follow when having someone in the brig, someone must be present for the entire time that someone is incarcerated. The charges that Vampmare was charged with were on a false pretext when we examined both sides of the report. He was pushed back from the position that he was holding from xenos, and it appeared that predators were also present when they were forced to retreat from their position. He did not go out of his way to ignore command, and did the best that he could given the circumstances.

At most he could've been charged with insubordination, but he did his best to follow the orders he was given. We believe that Captains should be more legislative when it comes to marine law than enforcing the policies directly themselves.

We've decided that a Captain can arrest a marine if there is literally no one else that is capable of doing the task; such as, an XO, SO, MP, or CMP. They are required to follow the same brigging procedure that MPs have to, and are susceptible to the same OOC repercussions that MPs will receive when they fail to follow their procedure correctly.

[Emerald Blood]

If no MPs are online and someone has to be arrested, the CO can do so and as can leave the brig in a state of emergency as long as they get back as soon as possible. That said, while no major fuck-ups, this could have been handled better so Decker100 will only have a warning to still be mindful of Marine Law, even if you are the CO. Resolved